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View Full Version : Cable Companies in Canada Getting Broadcast Flag-Happy?


Jason Dunn
05-17-2007, 05:18 PM
The news post I did on my first experience having the broadcast flag stop me from recording a movie on TV touched a nerve - it seems there are a lot of you out there having this problem. A fellow posting under the name mrsheep posted a couple of very interesting messages (http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=69209#69209) on this topic in the discussion thread, and I wanted to highlight one of them on the front page:

"There is a huge thread in the AskJessica forum (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/176207.aspx) on this growing problem over on TheGreenButton. It seems that the use of the CGMS-A flag is regulated in the US but not in Canada, and the Canadian cable companies appear to be abusing its use up here on this side of the boarder. There is a CRTC web site where some of us have gone and registered a complaint (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/RapidsCCM/Register.asp?lang=E) against our offending cable providers in hopes that the CRTC will consider regulating the cable companies here on this issue like the FTC does in the US.

As I understand it, Microsoft changed the way they handle the "Copy Never" flag in Rollup 2 and in Vista from a less restrictive approach in the original release of MCE 2005 to more closely reflect the US FTC description of when the flag is to be used (basically on things like premium PPV content). Over the last six plus months however, Canadian cable providers (or perhaps their content providers) have been broadcasting this flag with greater and greater frequency making the MCE experience less and less compelling for the growing number of users who are being impacted by this. Unfortunately it sounds like Microsoft sees it as a case where they believe they are doing the right thing and probably won't do anything to fix the problem which they don't see as a bug, but instead as a feature. People are complaining to Jessica and regularly asking if Microsoft has any news or a resolution, but as helpful as Jessica is trying to be, it doesn't sound like there is any news or a resolution around the corner."

I took a few minutes and went to the CRTC site to register a complaint (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/RapidsCCM/Register.asp?lang=E), and if you're living in Canada and reading this, I'd urge you to do the same.

Jason Dunn
05-17-2007, 05:21 PM
Here's the message I submitted to the CRTC in case anyone wants to use it as a template for creating their own:

*************

SHAW cable has been turning on the broadcast flag with more frequency lately, making it impossible for me to record certain TV shows and movies to watch later on my Windows Vista computer. I'm paying for their cable service, and nothing in the contract seems to prevent time-shifting (and in fact they sell Motorola PVRs designed for this very purpose). The most recent instance of this was when I tried to record a TV showing of the movie "Rudy" in late April - Windows Vista wouldn't let me record it because the broadcast flag was set to "no record".

To be clear, this is *not* a Windows Vista "problem" - Vista is doing exactly what it's supposed to do in terms of respecting the broadcast flag that says "do not record". In the United States, the FCC regulates the use of the broadcast flag - apparently in Canada it's a free-for-all with the cable companies able to use it whenever and however they want.

I believe that as a customer paying for cable TV, I should have the right to record TV shows and movies for watching later, and that SHAW should not prevent me from doing so.

JR
05-17-2007, 05:55 PM
I'm getting a 404 when I try to access the complaint page. Anybody else having an issue?

Jason Dunn
05-17-2007, 06:57 PM
I'm getting a 404 when I try to access the complaint page. Anybody else having an issue?

I thought at first that the CRTC was out to get you, but in fact I just made some HTML coding errors. ;-) Try again.

JR
05-17-2007, 07:01 PM
Thanks, it's fixed (and submitted!).

JR
05-17-2007, 10:51 PM
I received this back (a quick response actually):

Dear Mr. Rutledge:

Thanks for contacting the CRTC with your concerns.

In order to follow this matter, I am asking Shaw, by copy of this message, to respond directly to you within three weeks and to send us a copy of its reply for review by Commission staff. You will hear from us again if any regulatory action is required.
Your complaint and all related correspondence will be placed on Shaw's public file at the end of three weeks. The Commission may review it at licence renewal time and interested parties may consult the file at any time. In accordance with your rights under the Privacy Act, you may refuse to have your correspondence placed on such a file. If that is the case, please contact us within three weeks of the date of this response by clicking on the link provided below, by mail, fax or telephone, quoting the reference number. Please note that the Commission may not be able to pursue your complaint if all correspondence cannot be made public.

mrsheep
05-18-2007, 08:51 PM
I received a response back today from the CRTC on the complaint that I submitted a while back. I posted the full text (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/permalink/188188/188188/ShowThread.aspx#188188)from Shaw on the existing threat on The Green Button.

It doesn't sound like Canadians MCE experience is going to be very pleasant over the next while unless Microsoft releases a fix to the problem.

mrsheep
05-23-2007, 07:47 AM
Jason,

It sounds like a filter might be a viable option.

Any ideas on a reputable filter and source?

Might make an interesting and helpful article if you could talk a few suppliers into sending you their wares to review in some sort of comparative filter showdown.

Jason Dunn
05-23-2007, 05:33 PM
It sounds like a filter might be a viable option. Any ideas on a reputable filter and source?

A filters? As in, some sort of pre-processing box that would strip the CGMS A flag? Do those exist? 8O

mrsheep
05-23-2007, 06:11 PM
Apparently.

I have seen them mentioned in that huge AskJessica thread as well as some of the other forums on sites like digitalhome.ca. I am trying to find out more information from the posters on TheGreenButton but haven't heard back from there yet. Thought it might be something that would be of interest to Digital Media Thoughts readers as well.

So far I seen mention of:

Sima

and

a link to what looks like some guys basement :-)

http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/

but I am not sure about the availability of such products from brand name locations.

mrsheep
09-21-2007, 06:33 PM
Well many months have past and this issue has been a problem for Canadians for the better part of a year now and Microsoft doesn't seem to care.

Personally, I gave up back in June (after 7 months of MCE headaches) and went the hardware filter route. Ordered a device from:
http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html

and other than it being an added expense and inconvenience that I would have rather not needed to incur, it seems to resolve the problem for me for now.

However, other upset Canadians are starting to get so fed up and frustrated that some are starting to make rumblings about organizing class action law suits over the issue:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/post/209748.aspx