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View Full Version : The Broadcast Flag Says "No Recording For You"


Jason Dunn
05-10-2007, 03:00 PM
In all of my years of using a Media Center computer as a PVR (I think I'm in year four now), I've been fortunate enough to have never seen this message before:

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/media-center-broadcast-flag.JPG

That's what you see when the broadcaster decides that they don't want you to be able to record the TV show - and for me, that means I don't watch it (live TV sucks). Seeing this once on a TV-broadcast movie isn't very consequential to me, but if I were to start to see it regularly, I'd suddenly start to wonder why I was paying for cable. Have you been bitten by the broadcast flag? If so, how much of an issue is it for you?

cptpoland
05-10-2007, 06:29 PM
I've seen this message many times on my Windows Media Center 2005. It's very odd, because it does not show up regularly. It seems to show up more often with Adventures of Pooh which are recorded from Family Channel, and some other cartoons for my kids. I never seen this on any other shows. To make it even more interesting I've done an experiment with my Tivo and Media Center, recording the same Adventures of Pooh. There were a couple that did not record on the Media Center, because of that message, but Tivo recorded everything with out a problem. Go figure.

BTW I live in Edmonton, and I'm using regular (not digital) Shaw Cable.

Mac

Jason Dunn
05-10-2007, 07:03 PM
There were a couple that did not record on the Media Center, because of that message, but Tivo recorded everything with out a problem. Go figure.

Interesting - I wouldn't have thought that Tivo would ignore the broadcast flag...

cameron
05-10-2007, 07:36 PM
The way I understand it - the broadcast flag is supposed to allow for one recording - i.e. to a PVR. The set-top box manufacturers have built in the capability to record shows flagged in this manner, but they do not output these shows via the firewire outputs.

My guess is that since MS knows that once something is recorded to the hard drive someone is going to be able to get it off means that they built a hard restriction into the OS.

Felix Torres
05-11-2007, 02:10 AM
Worth remembering: the broadcast flag is merely an optional tool.
Nobody forces content providers to use it.
If you can't record something it is because the content provider *chose* to deny you that feature. Direct your wrath appropriately.
Let them know you do not be appreciate being denied timeshifting's benefits.
In the case of ABCFamily content, that is our pals at Disney who are already on record with plenty other user-hostile practices.

cptpoland
05-11-2007, 04:21 PM
Interesting thing is that this problem is not regular. It will record fine for a few weeks, then suddenly it will stop recording once or twice, and then continue. It looks like either Shaw Cable is playing with the broadcast flag, setting it randomly on different shows. Come to think of it, my wife was a little ticked when Gilmore Girls did not record because of that error message. Then again it happened only on one show and never happened again.
It seems to me that this is some kind of OS problem, than a broadcast flag.

Mac

JR
05-14-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm experiencing the exact same thing with two shows I record for my kids: Little Einsteins and The Wiggles. In both cases, I'm recording Treehouse TV and with both shows, it's a random occurrence. I'll be OK for several episodes, and then one will get blocked. It's maddening, especially when it always seems to fail on the days we promise our son a "new show" when we get home.

Jason Dunn
05-14-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm experiencing the exact same thing with two shows I record for my kids: Little Einsteins and The Wiggles. In both cases, I'm recording Treehouse TV and with both shows, it's a random occurrence.

Have you drilled down into the recording history and checked to see if there's a note about why it failed? Maybe it will tell you if it's the broadcast flag or not.

ale_ers
05-15-2007, 06:15 PM
The way I understand it - the broadcast flag is supposed to allow for one recording - i.e. to a PVR. The set-top box manufacturers have built in the capability to record shows flagged in this manner, but they do not output these shows via the firewire outputs.


I agree with that. HBO is famous for this. I can record Sopranos and watch it fine...but I can't seem to find a way to get it on to my Zune to watch it later. I seem to only encounter this with HBO, as you said they let it be copied once (on to the computer) then block any attempt to move it to another location...which I guess is the point. I can understand this protection, I guess, but I wish it would realize, "hey, he is not trying to burn a DVD then distribute it...he just wants to watch it on a tiny screen."

whydidnt
05-16-2007, 10:34 PM
I seem to only encounter this with HBO, as you said they let it be copied once (on to the computer) then block any attempt to move it to another location...which I guess is the point. I can understand this protection, I guess, but I wish it would realize, "hey, he is not trying to burn a DVD then distribute it...he just wants to watch it on a tiny screen."

Which is why it should be called Digital Restriction Management, instead of Digital Rights Management. That HBO executive must have been high on crack cocaine when he said DRM enables more consumers to do more with content, not less. This is a perfect example of just the opposite. :x

lingenfr
05-17-2007, 12:58 AM
I have not seen this problem on my MythTV box (Ubuntu Feisty). Is this a windows only (primarily) forum?

Jason Dunn
05-17-2007, 01:00 AM
I have not seen this problem on my MythTV box (Ubuntu Feisty). Is this a windows only (primarily) forum?

I suspect MythTV doesn't respect the broadcast flag...which is a good thing for end-users. We're mostly Windows here, but some Mac and some Linux.

mrsheep
05-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Hi Jason,

There is a huge thread in the AskJessica forum on this growing problem over on TheGreenButton:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/176207.aspx

It seems that the use of the CGMS-A flag is regulated in the US but not in Canada, and the Canadian cable companies appear to be abusing its use up here on this side of the boarder. There is a CRTC web site where some of us have gone and registered a complaint against our offending cable providers in hopes that the CRTC will consider regulating the cable companies here on this issue like the FTC does in the US.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/RapidsCCM/Register.asp?lang=E

As I understand it, Microsoft changed the way they handle the "Copy Never" flag in Rollup 2 and in Vista from a less restrictive approach in the original release of MCE 2005 to more closely reflect the US FTC description of when the flag is to be used (basically on things like premium PPV content). Over the last six plus months however, Canadian cable providers (or perhaps their content providers) have been broadcasting this flag with greater and greater frequency making the MCE experience less and less compelling for the growing number of users who are being impacted by this. Unfortunately it sounds like Microsoft sees it as a case where they believe they are doing the right thing and probably won't do anything to fix the problem which they don't see as a bug, but instead as a feature. People are complaining to Jessica and regularly asking if Microsoft has any news or a resolution, but as helpful as Jessica is trying to be, it doesn't sound like there is any news or a resolution around the corner.

mrsheep
05-17-2007, 04:56 PM
Oh yes, I should also mention...

Jessica (a Microsoftee who I believe is on the mediacenter team) asked that anyone who had experienced this problem private message her with a number of specific details describing where, when etc.. you are having the problem:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/permalink/176207/181043/ShowThread.aspx#181043

So anyone here that hasn't done so yet might also want to send her their info so that she has a better picture of how widespread the issue is and when it is occuring.

While they are at it, fellow Canadians may also want to share their thoughts on the issue with the CRTC by submitting a complaint about which ever cable company is making it harder for them to watch the content that they are paying for. (link in previous post)

Jason Dunn
05-17-2007, 05:20 PM
Very interesting information mrsheep, thanks for posting! I've gone and made this a front page issue:

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/index.php?topic_id=12149