Dear Apple: Why Can't You Fix iTunes?

[Jeremy Charette]

<img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/CIMG0472.JPG" /> <br /><br />Dear Apple,<br /><br />Last year I gave in, after years of telling friends and family to buy Rio and Creative MP3 players, and I bought a 30GB iPod. And boy, has life been great since. I subscribe to dozens of podcasts, and I dropped $100 to put an iPod interface in my car so I can listen to them through the car stereo. What a great product.<br /><br />But lately, I haven't been using it. Ever since I've upgraded to Windows Vista Ultimate Edition, iTunes has given me nothing but trouble. First, I couldn't get iTunes to sync properly with my iPod. Then you posted all those warnings about possibly bricking my iPod if I used it with Vista. So I was careful, and ejected my iPod manually, just like you said. Then last week I downloaded and installed iTunes 7.1.1.5, figuring it would make things better. I even got the latest recommended update from Microsoft for the iPod and iTunes.<br /><br />Things got worse, much worse. Now when I startup iTunes, for some inexplicable reason, it causes my computer to crash. Completely. I get the blue screen of death pictured above. Then the computer restarts and chkdsk scans my hard drive, inevitably finding a few corrupted fragments. So now I'm not using iTunes for fear of hosing my entire PC, and I haven't sync'd my iPod in over a week. I'm disappointed. You've had a long time to figure out how to make iTunes and the iPod work with Windows Vista. What gives? Please, fix it, now; so I can go back to my formerly blissful life, iPod in pocket.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Jeremy Charette

[Vincent Ferrari]

Vista must be a real joy to develop for. HP doesn't have drivers for a bunch of printers. Almost none of Lexmark's printers work with Vista. Creative hasn't gotten their stuff together yet, and Apple can't seem to get it right (although the last really big issue fix for iTunes came from Microsoft, not Apple).

Jeez...

[Jason Dunn]

iTunes sux. :lol:

[Jeremy Charette]

Oh come on Jason, really. Honestly, iTunes isn't a bad program. I like it better than Windows Media Player, though the latest WMP isn't half bad either. But the continued problems with Windows compatibility are getting on my nerves.

[bcre8v2]

I share your frustrations and empathize (sympathize).

Check out process monitor to enable a boottime trace.. maybe there's something else????

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/processmonitor.mspx

The Apple knowledgebase articles are here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305042
(they're not too helpful).

Side Note: Considering that Microsoft delayed in releasing their final Vista SDK's and continue to postpone access to Longhorn Dev tools, it's no wonder manufacturers are challenged by driver development. I have heard even internally @ MS, the teams wrestle with updates to the OS.

[Jason Dunn]

Oh come on Jason, really. Honestly, iTunes isn't a bad program.

Hey, I'm just jumping on your band wagaon - you're driving it! :lol:

[Jeremy Charette]

iTunes is like a circa' 1990s Jaguar. Looks great, but spends more time getting fixed than used.

[mjhamson]

iTunes sux. :lol:

come on Jason! You know very well that the real causes of kernel crashes are low level bits that live on the same level as the OS or below. As such, I am willing to bet my reputation (if I still have one) that the true cause of the crash is a driver.

Jeremy: Did you run this through a kernel debugger? (kdbg).

With what was done with vista - and all the problems that it has caused - I think people should step re-evaluate who they blame.

-Michael

[David Horn]

I've never liked iTunes, it's always been sluggish on my computer, and I don't find it as intuitive as WMP.

The issue was settled with Vista, where WMP11 uses just 18MB of RAM when playing back 320kbps tracks and managing a 3000 song media library, whereas iTunes uses five times that and feels slower.

My brother, on the other hand, swears by iTunes. However, I do feel that it's extremely poor of Apple to not have this fixed, and I do wonder if they're leaving it so long to try to get Microsoft negative publicity.

[Vincent Ferrari]

However, I do feel that it's extremely poor of Apple to not have this fixed, and I do wonder if they're leaving it so long to try to get Microsoft negative publicity.

Sure that's probably the plan. And HP, Creative, Lexmark, and Epson (who still has a load of printers without Vista drivers) are all in on it.

Yep... Just a big ole conspiracy... Apple, whose iPod user base is probably at least half Windows customers, and the other companies for whom Microsoft probably represents 75% of their market are all in it just to make MS look bad. :roll:

It's obvious that there's something about Vista that makes it tough to get hardware to cooperate with. Notice that the big fix last month for iTunes that fixed a problem a good number of people were having didn't come from Apple, it came from Microsoft.

Let's face it. Hardware incompatibility is a way of life with OS upgrades. This is no 2000 to XP upgrade, folks, and we're seeing the scope of what's involved now. All things will be fixed in time, but considering how many vendors are having issues, I find it impossible to blame them.

[RichL]

I've gone back to Windows XP MCE.

There's just too many companies out there who are struggling with Vista drivers. I've issues with hardware from Creative, Logitech, Linksys and Abit. The fact that I'm having iTunes too was the last straw.

I'll revisit Vista in 6-12 months. Hopefully 99% of the issues will be resolved by then.

[Jeremy Charette]

I'm very close to following suit.

[Macguy59]

iTunes sux. :lol:

WMP sux more :lol:

[Jeremy Charette]

My biggest frustration is that there's no way to log the incident or submit it to Apple, so they can work on it. There's no way to contact Apple for iTunes support via. email.

[Macguy59]

My biggest frustration is that there's no way to log the incident or submit it to Apple, so they can work on it. There's no way to contact Apple for iTunes support via. email.

Bit of a nitpick but why not use "iTunes Service and Support" link under "Help" ?

[Jeremy Charette]

You mean within iTunes itself? Can't do that. Launch iTunes, and within a few seconds it blue screens my PC.

[Macguy59]

You mean within iTunes itself? Can't do that. Launch iTunes, and within a few seconds it blue screens my PC.

Ah. In that case use the direct link

http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/

[Jeremy Charette]

And where exactly on that page (or any of the pages linked to it) can I email or call Apple directly, for free?

[mariov]

Vista sux. MS sux. That is why i use linux now :)

[bcre8v2]

Jeremy,

Have you tried running iTunes in XP compatibility mode?
It seems to works on my Acer laptop (Vista Home Premium) whereas it was crashing previously.
good luck.

[Jeremy Charette]

Yup. Still blue screens. *sigh* Looks like it's time to migrate back to XP.

[rzanology]

Yup. Still blue screens. *sigh* Looks like it's time to migrate back to XP.

no no jeremy....looks like it's time to migrate over to a zune. my zune...zune software....media center and 360 all work fine. here here....3 cheers for MS!

[Jason Dunn]

My biggest frustration is that there's no way to log the incident or submit it to Apple, so they can work on it. There's no way to contact Apple for iTunes support via. email.

Pretty interesting isn't it? That speaks volumes about Apple as a company - they tell you what's good for you, and they really don't want to hear about anything that's wrong.

[mjhamson]

Pretty interesting isn't it? That speaks volumes about Apple as a company - they tell you what's good for you, and they really don't want to hear about anything that's wrong.

No actually Apple has a very good means for reporting bugs and interfacing.

1) There are forums with active Apple and Community involvement. http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/

2) There is the actual bug tracker that Apple has. It has been useful for me in submitting and tracking development bugs. Simple enough for a noob to get into - though you do need to agree to the FREE ADC account. https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa

3) There are Apple Stores with real people and real help. I only have experience with the Apple Stores in a couple of places - but they have been great experiences. Maybe not all people are as eager beavers as us Seattlelites - but you can give it a try.

[Jeremy Charette]

Why should I have to register on a forum, or get a Developer's account to report a bug? When a Microsoft program crashes, it automatically sends data back to Microsoft about the problem, including what happened before the crash occured, what hardware and software you're running, etc etc; which MS then analyzes and (hopefully) fixes. Heck, MS does that with NON-Microsoft software problems. Why can't Apple do that?

I don't want to jump through hoops, I just want a product that works. And I shouldn't have to help a company debug their software, they should have departments of people to do that for me.

[mjhamson]

Why should I have to register on a forum, or get a Developer's account to report a bug? When a Microsoft program crashes, it automatically sends data back to Microsoft about the problem, including what happened before the crash occured, what hardware and software you're running, etc etc; which MS then analyzes and (hopefully) fixes. Heck, MS does that with NON-Microsoft software problems. Why can't Apple do that?

Auto reporting is still the same via the microsoft process. A kernel crash however is different. Microsoft has no built in means to safely and consitantly report the crash and most often the recovery process is unknown to the built in mechanism.

When crashes do happen. THERE IS a signup process for Microsoft as well. This is based on the Passport system. You need to login to a system to be able to track your issues.

I don't want to jump through hoops, I just want a product that works. And I shouldn't have to help a company debug their software, they should have departments of people to do that for me.

A smart user of a computer knows how to investigate issues. A simple look at the stack can really clarify the list of suspects. The use of automatic reporting mechanism is also very important as it gives feedback to the developers so they can make your experience better. I do admit that not everyone has the brain-space to be able to do this - nor the desire. I would expect that most people on this forum would though.

Being a good-citizen in the community means being able to give feedback. There is also the very tangible benefit of helping improve upon the application(s) that you love the most.

In the old(er) days at MS - it really did matter and yes we did make changes based upon user comments and feedback. These days of course - the cogs turn rather slow

I am a complete switcher (while at MS can you believe - walking into the war room with a Mac - pissed people off to no end). As such I am very happy to give input into products. There are many ultra-high quality products developed by small companies and/or individuals. The feedback and results of the feedback are fantastic. The best example of this is the TextMate application. If you want to see how the future of offerings should be - then look there - It is a one man team that has the admiration of Apple and the community. This mindset permeates through the Mac side of software and I sure wish it would take hold on the PC side. But if people are unwilling to let the developers have that ever so important feedback - it will never happen.

[Jeremy Charette]

FINALLY. Figured it out.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305392

"Some customers using computers containing NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA (SATA) controllers may experience unexpected behavior when playing videos in iTunes on Windows Vista from a SATA hard drive. iTunes may unexpectedly quit or become unresponsive or the computer may unexpectedly reboot or show a blue screen. Standard IDE hard disks are unaffected by this issue. If your computer contains a standard IDE hard disk, you can copy your video files to that disk and play those copies of the files in iTunes or QuickTime Player. NVIDIA is investigating the issue."

I'm using an Asus M2NPV-VM motherboard, which has an Nvidia nForce 430 Southbridge chipset. Bingo. SATA hard drive plus nForce 430 plus iTunes equals BSOD.

Here's hoping Nvidia can fix this problem ASAP. It's gotten so bad I just uninstalled iTunes and QuickTime. They crashed my system anytime I used them, even when just trying to create thumbnails for .mov files in Windows Explorer.

[Jason Dunn]

Dang. Don't you just love being a geek sometimes? :roll: :?

[Jeremy Charette]

Yeah, isn't it wonderful? I've got one AM2 motherboard that crashes iTunes, and another AM2 motherboard that won't work with any of the high speed memory I have without a BIOS flash.

Did I mention I don't have a floppy drive to do a BIOS flash the old fashioned way? Yeah. So now I'm stuck having to try and burn a BIOS CD and hope it works. Been putting that off for a while as it's a PITA.