Going Digital With a DVD Collection: What's the Best Solution?

[Jason Dunn]

This is something I've been mulling over for a long time, but I've never gotten around to doing any testing or serious research: I'm interested in taking my DVD collection (numbering around 400 by now I think) and converting it to a purely digital format. I have an Xbox 360 connected to my TV set upstairs, and the 360 is connected to the Media Center PC downstairs in my office. What's the best way to rip, manage, and access my collection? I think the biggest problem may be that the Xbox 360 only streams WMV formats by default - some of the ripping programs I've seen will rip to a VOB file, but that won't be of much help to me. Suggestions from the community?

[ppptok]

I've just started playing with an open source product called MediaCoder. I recently purchased a Creative ZEN Vision:W and wanted something that would take my VOB rips and convert them to a format that the ZEN could handle. MediaCoder does the job nicely.

http://mediacoder.sourceforge.net/index.htm

[Damion Chaplin]

I've been wrestling with this issue for some time now. Ever since I got my Xbox as a matter of fact. I have yet to find a satisfactory solution, but I've had marginal success ripping the DVD using DVD Decrypter and then processing the resulting VOB files using Windows Media Encoder and/or Movie Maker. It only works with some DVDs, but it's free. The result is a WMV file that can be read by my Xbox and the Zune software. Of course they have to be re-encoded for the Zune... :?

[Doug Johnson]

The next update for the 360 will add support for a few more formats, h.264 being the most promising. Finding a tool to convert DVD to h.264 might be easier than one that converts to WMV.

[Damion Chaplin]

I've just started playing with an open source product called MediaCoder. I recently purchased a Creative ZEN Vision:W and wanted something that would take my VOB rips and convert them to a format that the ZEN could handle. MediaCoder does the job nicely.

Wow, I must check that program out. It may be just what we're looking for... Thanks!

[Felix Torres]

I've been dealing with this issue for a couple years now and I've tried a variety of solutions, some of which produce generally acceptable results but none that produces a "perfect" solution, like a networked upscaling DVD jukebox would. :-)

For starters, I'd suggest waiting a month before doing anything because the next 360 Dashboard update, coming the Week of May 7, will enable Mpeg4 and H.264 solutions to parralel the existing WMV and VC-1 solutions. Then you'll see updates to a lot of ripping/transcoding boxes that will be 360 friendly and you'll be able to compare their output to the output of the WMV/VC-1 camp.

Just remember that data rates matter here as much or more than the codec. Overly-compressed H.264 is going to look worse than lower compression MPEG2 every day of the week, to use just one example. The good news with 360 is that we *know* it is possible to encode SD WMV files that upscale beautifully to near-HD quality. The problem lies in finding a consumer-level tool that will let you replicate what MS provides on video marketplace.

Of course, you can always bypass the 360 solution and go with a VOB-streaming solution like this:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2112827,00.asp

The combo of AnyDVD and Clone-DVD-to-go will let you quickly rip a DVD into a single VOB file with one click and if you have a couple of terabytes handy to hold the data and a good upscaler in your TV (or in front of it) you'd be home free. :-)

Beyond that you'll likely get all sorts of recommendations for stuff like Tversity, Encode360, etc.

But if you're going to use a 360 as your front end you'd best wait and see what the new update brings. Cause things *are* going to change.
Me, I'm hoping the MPEG playback also enables MPEG2 playback...

[Dyvim]

I've had marginal success ripping the DVD using DVD Decrypter

Try DVDFab Decryptor. They have a free version (limited functionality) that will handle your rips. It's updated regularly so unlike DVD Decryptor (no longer updated), it handles newer copy protection schemes like Sony Arcos.

[Jeremy Charette]

Now, rumor (and only rumor) has it that the next Media Center update in Vista will support DVD streaming from networked DVD jukeboxes, and a 360 dash update will roll this feature into the 360 as well. Big if, but if it comes, expect it sometime in Q3.

[Phronetix]

My point of view on this is borne out of my busy life and limited time: if the technology ecosystem is not advanced enough, then the project is not worth my time.

Jason, you could spend hours struggling to make this work well, then once you find what you need in terms of software and hardware, you could spend hours ripping. Then once the XBox or other solutions rolll out you may find you have hundreds or thousands of GB of video files in the wrong format, compressed too little or too much for your needs etc.

When the PPC first came out, one of my supervisors came up with elaborate plans to roll out a unit to every family medicine resident in the program, and then to equip each unit with a selection of video tutorials that would teach examination techniques and the like. That was in the late 90's and early 2000's. While it was technically possible to do this, it was a challenge because of the limitations of the devices, the ability to compress video to a playable quality that would not take up too much of the device memory, and the amount of time it would take because of the video editing tools available. The end result is that the video idea was scrapped. It was too cutting edge to be realistically used. To do it now, would be a relative piece of cake. I could roll it out in an evening. In fact, there are things like the flash video format, or youtube that weren't even conceived of then.

So, Jason, for me this project of yours seems too 'cutting edge'. At least for right now.

Dennis

[Jeremy Charette]

Ditto.

[jmulder]

I'm probably just being a smartass, but isn't DVD already a 'purely digital format'?

:P

[Jeremy Charette]

I'm trying a freeware DVD to WMV program, and I still have to say, probably not worth the hassle. The estimated time to completion is 5 hours. I would take me a month to rip my entire DVD collection to my hard drive.

More time and effort than it's worth.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm probably just being a smartass, but isn't DVD already a 'purely digital format'?

It's something you hold in your hand - it's a physical product made of atoms, not a digital one made of bits. Smartass. :wink: :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

Thanks for the feedback guys...I think you're right, what I want just isn't possible right now, which seems bizarre to me since I'm sure there are a lot of people out there wanting to do what I want to do. 8O

I'd need something that would rip the DVD, keep it at an extremely high bit rate with loose compression, and allow me to view the cover art and all the metadata - so it needs a management front-end. And it would need to be in a video format that wasn't going to be obsolete any time soon.

I could have sworn there was some sort of Media Center plug-in that did some or most of this, but I guess. not...?

[Jeremy Charette]

Here's what's most disturbing to me: with Sony dropping out of the DVD changer market, there's no way to get a DVD changer for Media Center for under $1600 (which is what the Niveus changer costs). Of course, there's always eBay, which will run $160-280 USD.

[Felix Torres]

Thanks for the feedback guys...I think you're right, what I want just isn't possible right now, which seems bizarre to me since I'm sure there are a lot of people out there wanting to do what I want to do. 8O

I'd need something that would rip the DVD, keep it at an extremely high bit rate with loose compression, and allow me to view the cover art and all the metadata - so it needs a management front-end. And it would need to be in a video format that wasn't going to be obsolete any time soon.

I could have sworn there was some sort of Media Center plug-in that did some or most of this, but I guess. not...?

Oh, its not impossible.
There are *lots* of ways to do it.
(Possibly too many.)
The problem is they are all focused on portable devices or, to be honest, piracy in one form or another. The focus is on DRM-stripping and internet distribution, not bulkier higher-quaity video suitable for DVD-archiving on a home LAN. So they tend to over-compress video and produce formats that are not supported in commercial devices or apps.

Now, if you want to try it for yourself, two program I *know* will produce WMV output at arbitrary resolution and data rates using Microsoft's Windows Media Encoder and WME profiles are CarryDVD and PocketDVD Wizard. Both offer demos.

Another approach is to use CarryDVD-to-go to create a single decrypted VOB file and a VOB-to-MPEG converter or a commercial video editor like Sony Vegas or Windows Movie Maker.

You might also want to look at Encode360 which, again, uses Windows Media encoder, plus ffdshow to produce VC-1 or WMV-HD files at any arbitrary resolution and bit rate, even doing offline *upscaling* up to 1080p resolution.

The key question is *which* format to use?
Are you willing to commit the time and effort to go with VC-1/WMV?
Do you go with a Linux-centric format like DiVX?
A Mac-centric flavor of H.264?
A Sony flavor?

The tech is here, but just as with blue laser disks, there is no clear, true standard but rather an ongoing competition for domination that is tied-in to the STB wars. And this competition is to an extent tied to the fate of ripped-DVD video encoding depends on the outcome of the Blue Laser format war. If HD-DVD prevails, the format we get the managed-copy pre-ripped files in might define a universal standard for living room video encoding. If Blu-ray prevails, managed copy will die and we'll have to fall back on whatever formats come from Video Marketplace, Unbox, iTunes, or whatever as a template.

Want to place a bet on a format now? ;-)

[kcchesnut]

i've got the same problem. been thinking about writing a Media Center plugin to mass rip my DVD collection from a DVD changer to a NAS device. not positive, but i believe there is a way to get the metadata when this happens. then i think the 'My Movies' MCE plugin is able to play those movies through a 360 extender. and i think the playback can happen without having to reencode first.

anyway, i haven't started to put it altogether yet to see where it breaks down ... but i'm hoping that'll work.

[Jason Dunn]

i've got the same problem. been thinking about writing a Media Center plugin to mass rip my DVD collection from a DVD changer to a NAS device.

Well THAT sure does sound interesting. :-) Be sure to let us know how that process goes!

[digitaldoc]

The issue may be too many choices, but this is entirely possible. It all depends on what you want to do with the video afterwords. In other words, a format like h264 will be great for an iPod, but probably not stream well with a dedicated set top box.

For me, if I was doing this, I'd try for a mainstream compressed format, like DivX. A nice, although not push button simple program that can accomplish this is Handbrake. It takes a little over an hour to do a single double layer disc.

You can download your free copy at:

http://handbrake.m0k.org/?page_id=8

[Jason Dunn]

...a format like h264 will be great for an iPod, but probably not stream well with a dedicated set top box.

I'd agree with you except that once the Xbox 360 adds h.264 support, it will be a VERY good format to use...

[craigf]

So, Jason, for me this project of yours seems too 'cutting edge'. At least for right now.

Gotta agree. We took the few (~15) movies our daughter wants to watch most frequently and I ripped them to high-quality XviD. We play that back via a laptop connected to the TV.

I expect to do to our movie collection in 2-3 years what we started doing to our CD collection 5 years ago (ripping en masse), but not much sooner. I'm not investing the time/money/effort in any large-scale ripping endeavors until HD (or near-HD) formats, codecs, and ripping tools get a little more mature. Heck, I may even wait until 802.11n becomes the norm as 802.11g offers just a too thin a safety margin for streaming high-quality video.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not investing the time/money/effort in any large-scale ripping endeavors until HD (or near-HD) formats, codecs, and ripping tools get a little more mature.

In general I agree, but as long as the DMCA is on the books as law in the USA, DVD ripping tools will always be un-polished, outlaw-type solutions. :?

[timmy]

Not that this one will help Jason right now, since it has no WMV support. But DivX, XviD, h264 and you can set the wished file size and resolution. Then just click away and it manages it all.... Very nice..

A somewhat limited version (filesizes only <700MB) is freeware.

http://www.fairusewizard.com/lang_en/fairuse_wizard_dvd_divx_xvid_backup_tool_light_edition.html

[Jason Dunn]

But DivX, XviD, h264 and you can set the wished file size and resolution.

I think h.264 will be the way to go actually, but honestly ripping it isn't the problem - I have tools for that. The bigger question is the management of the files, the meta-data, the cover art, the integration into Windows Media Center, etc.

This seems to be a partial solution: http://www.mymovies.name/

[timmy]

This seems to be a partial solution: http://www.mymovies.name/

Wow.. 8O This makes me want to run out and buy XP Media Center or Vista (having only XP Home right now)...

Is there a possibiliy that you can get a copy and review it on the site?