I Can Pre-Order the Sony BDPS1 Blu-ray Disc Player...

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1002797' target='_blank'>http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1002797</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/sonystyle-BDPS1_en_2.jpg" /><br />I was looking at Sony Canada's Web site today, and I saw that they were promoting a pre-order on their new BDPS1 Blu-ray player - for a mere $1299 CAD (about $1140 USD). Who are they kidding anyway? I realize that the Sony brand name always has a higher price tag, but when I look at the fact that Best Buy is selling the second-generation <a href="http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10080720&catid=20208">Toshiba HD-DVD player</a> for $599 CAD (about $527 USD), the PS3 gives you Blu-ray for $549 CAD, and that Xbox 360 owners like myself got into HD-DVD for $199 CAD...who's going to buy the $1300 Sony Blu-ray player? The market of Sony aficionados is getting smaller every year, and I don't think there are enough of them left to buy many of these.

[cameron]

I personally don't care which format wins, but unless they can get some lower priced BluRay players to market (and I don't consider $600 for a PS3 lower priced) - I think that BluRay will lose the format war.

[mar2k]

I'm behind HD DVD all the way. With Microsoft and Intel backing HD DVD they should convince Toshiba to build Media Center Extender functionality into their HD DVD players with millions of copies of Vista about to ship out with Media Center built right in to the new OS.

[Chris Gohlke]

I'm pulling for HD too. I plan on buying a 360 and the HD drive as soon as the rumored price drop comes or to see if there are any announcements at CES regarding a combo unit.

[cameron]

I still wonder whether the new DVD formats will ultimately be successful.

Sure - for those of us who are technically savy and know what we need to get the best picture - the difference is great. For those who aren't...

With DVD, any idiot could hook a DVD player up to their standard def TV and see a difference in PQ, even if they were just using composite video. With the new formats - unless you are going through HDMI its going to look exactly the same. Given that the average consumer has no idea what HDMI is and why they should get it on their TVs, I don't think widespread adoption is going to happen (unless the manufacturers force it on us by only releasing new titles in the new formats).

I was up at my in-laws over Christmas. They were so proud of their new HDTV. Ignore the fact that they weren't going to pay and extra $10/month for HD channels - they thought they still had HDTV. The thing was cheap - some no-name brand. Guess what - no HDMI. My 12-year old brothers-in-law (long story) got a PS3 - which came with Talladega nights on Blu-Ray. So everyone's sitting around watching Talladega nights - and my father-in-law actually makes the perceptive comment that this doesn't look any better than his regular DVD player.

Whether us early adopters like it or not - I don't believe that the average consumer wants to buy a new TV every 5 years. We're used to buying a TV and keeping it for 10, 15, or even 20 years (the TV in my bedroom was purchased for my dorm room freshman year - 1989). If manufacturers keep coming up with standards that require new equipment when most people are pretty happy with their existing equipment - they will fail.

[Jason Dunn]

Excellent post Cameron, and you're very right. HD-DVD just isn't 10x better than DVD like DVD was better than VHS. It's an improvement, sure but not a quantum improvement.

HDTV is 10x better than SDTV, not only because of the resolution but because it fills the entire 16x9 screen. That's huge perceptual improvement, beyond just the quality improvement, that makes consumers go "WOW". HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the scape aspect ratios as regular DVDs, so the amount of screen space being used up is exactly the same. The only difference is more pixels, compression, etc. HD-DVD looks better than DVD on my TV, the colours are better, etc., but is it a 10x improvement that will drive massive consumer adoption? Nope.

[one thing though: you can get HD DVD quality over component...you don't need an HDMI connection on your TV. I have my HD-DVD drive hooked up to my Xbox 360, connected to my TV via component, and it works just great]

[cameron]

one thing though: you can get HD DVD quality over component...you don't need an HDMI connection on your TV. I have my HD-DVD drive hooked up to my Xbox 360, connected to my TV via component, and it works just great

Add another checkmark to the HD-DVD camp then. I keep hearing from the Blu-Ray people that the PS3 is going to be the holy grail of the format - unfortunately it's only HDMI for blu-ray content out of the box. I don't know if there's any sort of attachment/add-on that will get you there though.

[ShinKen]

I keep hearing from the Blu-Ray people that the PS3 is going to be the holy grail of the format - unfortunately it's only HDMI for blu-ray content out of the box.

I do not believe that is true. You should be able to get 1080i for blu-ray through component with the PS3. My understanding is that it really depends on the TV. On my set I only can receive a 1080P signal only thru hdmi, the component connection.

I am enjoying both formats at the moment (have an hd-a1 and ps3). Guess it comes down to what you want in a player (and how much you are willing to pay). For instance I decided not to go the xbox360/hd-dvd add-on route for the simple fact that it did not decode the new audio codecs and has no way to output them. So I went with the hd-a1. That said, I wouldn't purchase that Sony model or the Toshiba hd-a2x. They just do not add enough value to justify the cost, imo.

[cameron]

I do not believe that is true. You should be able to get 1080i for blu-ray through component with the PS3. My understanding is that it really depends on the TV. On my set I only can receive a 1080P signal only thru hdmi, the component connection.

Ok - I was a bit off. It's a bit misleading looking at the device as it has an HDMI output - and then a stupid AV-Out connector. You have to buy a special component AV cable. It also looks like you can get HD signals (the playstation site claims 1080p) through component. The original Xbox used this type of connector - but it wasn't marketed as an HD capable player (although many games are in HD). Compare to the XBox 360 which includes component cables out of the box.

While I'll change my tune on that front - I will continue to maintain that this demonstrates just how ridiculously stupid manufacturers are. If Sony thinks (I don't know if this is true or not) that the PS3 is going to be critical to the adoption of Blu-Ray - why in the world wouldn't they make it easy for the consumer to see just how good Blu-Ray is straight out of the box? Sure it would cost a few extra $$ in product costs - but when you are talking about the future of a product that you've sunk millions into...?

They don't include any way to get HD from the PS3 out of the box! This from a product that is marketed as an HD player? I'm not saying that this will impact the sales of the PS3, the PS3 will be a success or failure based on its merits as a gaming platform, not as a Blu-Ray player. But this will impact the adoption of Blu-Ray. Absolutely idiotic.

[cameron]

For instance I decided not to go the xbox360/hd-dvd add-on route for the simple fact that it did not decode the new audio codecs and has no way to output them.

Sorry for a second post - but I thought it was important for this not to get lost in with my first reply.

It's amazing how thinking through these posts have really convinced me that the new formats are going to fail (by fail I mean not gain mass-market acceptance). I'm not trying to say in these points that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't offer improvements over standard-DVD, just that those improvements are not going to be enough to convince the average consumer.

The new audio codecs are a prime example. What percentage of current DVD player owners are truly taking advantage of 5.1 sound (let's ignore 6.1 or 7.1)? My guess is that its fairly small. Even when I look through my friends, family, and co-workers (which includes a number of tech-literate early adopters) - very few of them have true home theater setups that can even take advantage of the existing audio formats.

Look at the absolute failure of HDCD, DVD-Audio (which I absolutely love), and SACD.

I think that we're at a point in the product curve where we are getting marginal improvements. While a lot of us don't mind paying for marginal improvements - most people aren't going to shell out a significant amount of money for small improvements. Especially when it involves not just one purchase (HD-DVD player), but more (HDTV, speakers, receivers, etc.).

[Jason Dunn]

I think that we're at a point in the product curve where we are getting marginal improvements. While a lot of us don't mind paying for marginal improvements - most people aren't going to shell out a significant amount of money for small improvements.

Yup. HD-DVD or Blu-ray will be adopted through the slow but steady replacement of technology and upgrades over the next 10+ years. Neither format is good enough to warrant the "let's rush out and buy it now" scenario that marketers want to see.

[ShinKen]

It's amazing how thinking through these posts have really convinced me that the new formats are going to fail (by fail I mean not gain mass-market acceptance). I'm not trying to say in these points that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't offer improvements over standard-DVD, just that those improvements are not going to be enough to convince the average consumer.



Cameron, I agree with you on that. I think both of these formats will be regulated to something along the lines of LaserDisc. And the fact that the Sony lead BDA and Toshiba and Co could not come together made this situation a complete mess. Consumers are confused to the point that they do not care and stores take up valuable space trying to push these new formats. Now Warner Bros. throws another iron into the fire by developing TotalHD discs. I think this is going to make things even more confusing.

[whydidnt]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but let me add my perspective. I do not consider myself an AV expert -- For example every camera I've ever owned is point and shoot. I don't care about perfect colors or any of that stuff. I'm just your average gadget lover that likes new shiny things. :lol:

I was an early adopter when CD's came out because they were more convenient to use than Cassettes and sounded better. I was an early adopter of DVD players because they were more convenient and looked better than VHS tapes on my SD TV. I was an early adopter of Big-Screen HDTV's because they made my DVD's look SO much better (AND hey, look how BIG that is!), even though the HD programming available to me was limited to a few shows on few over-the-air channels.

I will NOT be an early adopter of either Blue-Ray or HD-DVD. Why, because for me standard DVD's look great on my HD TV. Also, the HD TV's in my house are all either 1080i or 720p. I suspect most consumers are in the same boat as me, even if they obtain the technology, they really don't have a way to display the true resolution output. 1080p TV's only recently became available in large quantities and even then are priced high compared to their "HDTV" brothers.

Then I look at the price of the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies and see they are substantially more expensive and I think why, what is the benefit? For me, there just isn't any compelling reason to upgrade.

I post this for perspective that many of you mentioned regarding main-stream consumers and their adoption or lack thereof of this technology. I am not main-stream, I one of the guys Sony, Toshiba, etc thought would be an early adopter - why not, I always was before, right? But they were wrong, and I suspect the actual main-stream adoption of these technologies is going to be much further in the future than most realize. Quite possibly the "next big thing" will already be out and available before either of these technologies take a hold they way DVD's have.

[mordin]

I agree, why pay $1299 CAD for a Sony Blu-ray player when LG has just announced a combo Blu-ray/HD DVD player for around $1300 US. It's a dual laser player that can tell the type of disc inserted and uses the correct laser. This is also the 1st of these type players - don't forget that VHS players were over $1000 when they 1st came out and now you can buy 1 for $30. Most consumers will wait for the prices to come down and they need to replace their existing TVs &amp; DVD players.