The HDTV 'Scam'

[Damion Chaplin]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=166' target='_blank'>http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=166</a><br /><br /></div><i>"If you all don't remember way back in 2004 a DirecTV customer filed lawsuit saying that he had signed up for HDTV service and was soon getting sub-par results. He claims DirecTV is engaged in unlawful or fraudulent business practices by not delivering actual high definition signals. As most of us in the audio/videophille world know DirecTV started cutting bit rate and then scaling down the resolution of their HD feeds to squeeze more bandwidth. This quickly became known as "HD-Lite" in videophille circles. The drop in bit rate resulted in exacerbated MPEG2 mosquito noise, and posterization. DirecTV's odd 1280x1080i feeds resulted in a softening of the image as the horizontal detail was lost and then stretched back out at the satellite receiver to 1920x1080. This fella's lawsuit finally came up on the docket on September 20th when a judge ruled against DirecTV's request for arbitration, meaning that this will at some point go to court and be settled by a battle of lawyers. This lawsuit raises an interesting question: Just what constitutes high definition television?"</i><br /><br />Those of us here that get HDTV feeds know just what that DirecTV customer feels. In order to offer us more and more HD content over the same lines, sattelite and cable companies both compress the bejeesus out of their signals. The result is 'high-def' content that's often lower than DVD resolution. While I don't particularly experience the low bitrate and posterization problem, what I do have isn't that much better. I have a perfectly clear and crisp HD feed 99.9% of the time. Every once in a while though the picture will blank while the sound stutters, or a two-inch band will shift through the actors' faces, or (my personal favorite :roll: ) a split-second ear-splitting shriek will come from the audio signal. What about you? Do you get a nice HD signal, or HD-lite, or something else? Tell us about your HD or not-so-HD experiences.

[Jason Dunn]

I get HD signal and record it on my Morotola DVR. At least once per HD recorded show (and as many as 12 times) the audio will drop out, the picture will go black, or I'll waves of distortion pass through the image. It's pretty frustrating, especially when it causes you to lose part of the show - it happened with the last CSI New York episode, we lost about 10 seconds of the audio, which had some important dialogue. And this is supposed to be a "premium" service that I PAY for. &lt;grumble> :evil:

[ploeg]

Well, I'm watching the Vikings/Lions game, and there was all sorts of pixelation and sound issues going on. Can't lay it on the cable company, though, in this case it seems to be the FOX network that was at fault. It got so bad that FOX had to switch over to an SD feed for their HD transmission.

Point being that all of the links must work to get an HD program. The cable and satellite companies may be the usual bottleneck, but they can't give you HD if they're not getting it from the networks.

[Felix Torres]

This lawsuit raises an interesting question: Just what constitutes high definition television?"[/i]
Do you get a nice HD signal, or HD-lite, or something else? Tell us about your HD or not-so-HD experiences.

I have Time Warner Cable (ex-Adelphia, ex-Cablevision) and it is pretty good. Clean, no drop-outs, stutters or freezes.
However, judging by the results I get off the HDNet calibration feed, they are overscanning the HD feeds by about 5%, which isn't all that bad except there is no justifiable reason on the face of the planet to overscan HD feeds!!!

I find the lawsuit itself interesting, even though there is no chance the plaintiff wins a trial, given the lax definitions in the ATSC spec and the routinely deceptive practices of the broadcasters and the major hardware manufacturers.

For starters, DirecTV isn't the only (or even the first) player to try to pass faux-HD as true HD; right now, Hitachi is selling a 1024x1080, *interlaced* pdp and trying to pass them off as a 1080p display. FOX double-scanned 480i and passed it off as ED, and they broadcast prime-time content at 480 instead of their promised 720p. The current baseball playoff broadcasts are supposed to be 720 but look far blurrier than the 720 content on ESPN. (No surprise that the two most consumer-hostile studios adopted the lowest possible HD resolution for their broadcasts and support the most restrictive blue-laser format for the next-gen disks. Or that Disney would prefer to sell their video content on iTunes instead of offering free streams and/or d/ls like NBC and CBS...)

Anyway, the ATSC spec only calls for HD displays to present 1080 interlaced lines of video and decode the five DTV formats; not that they be decoded or presented properly. So, technically, horizontal resolution isn't part of the HD spec; a 2 pixel-wide stream would be HD by the letter of the spec. DirecTV can thus claim they were providing 1080 interlaced lines and that is all they are required to do.

Given that the plaintiff's TV is probably a pre-2005 model, odds are it doesn't properly de-interlace 1080i content, anyway, so DirecTV can claim that any image quality problems are due to the TV, not their broadcast stream. And unless the plaintiff has a 1080p LCD, they're probably right. In fact, if the Plaintiff has one of the bandwidth-starved Panasonic plasmas he might be looking at a display that only present 375 lines anyway.

"Scam" is too mild a word to describe the games and tricks HD consumers have been subject to pre-2005. But frankly, if you're going to sue DirecTV, you might as well sue Circuit City, Best Buy, the FCC, and the top 20 display vendors, plus the tv networks, local stations, and cablecos, all for conspiracy to defraud.
Cause they're all in it.
And that's a lawsuit nobody can win.

So grin and bear it and wait for the MPEG4-based satellite service to reach your neighborhood before spending money on a satellite dish and STB. Which is what I'm doing.
I'm very interested in what Dish and DirecTV have to offer but i'm not signing up until they clean up their act.
And I'm not holding my breath in the meantime.

[Doug Johnson]

I've got Dish Network and receive HD feeds via satellite in MPEG-4 format, and, honestly, it looks pretty good. It is very slightly softer than the over-the-air broadcasts, but unless you do an A/B comparision its hard to tell. There are a few stutters on the audio of the rebroadcast local HD stations (local HD via satellite)... I suspect there is something funny going on with the uplink, but other than that it is pretty good. I don't have dropouts at all via satellite unless the weather is really bad -- maybe twice a year.

My OTA signal drops occasionally, but it is by far an exception rather than the rule.

I'm pretty happy with my HD feeds.

[Felix Torres]

I've got Dish Network and receive HD feeds via satellite in MPEG-4 format, and, honestly, it looks pretty good.


That sounds promising.
Care to share some details of your set-up? Model of your TV, connection mode (HDMI, I assume)? Does Dish have a DVR version of the HD receiver?
My office mate has Dish and is very happy, but when he last upgraded he had to chose between HD and the DVR.

Like I said, I'm interested but in no rush...

[j.freiman]

Well, I can read everyones posts on this thread as well as others and unless the poster says what he's playing back the HD content onto the information/users point of view is meaningless.

Are you wathing your HD on a plasma with 1024x768 resolution with every 5th horizontal pixel removed? -- you know, the same resolution as a 15" computer monitor...

Maybe it's an LCD with 768x1366 or perhaps 1920x1080i/p.

Unless people make it clear about what their systems are composed of none of this matters to me.

A HD signal from CBS is broadcast as a 1920x1080i, broadcasts from ABC are 720x1280 -- all this matters, and no one is talking about it.

Where are the artifacts being generated? In the plasma television which is receiving a 1080i signal and down convering it? Or could it be in the cable/sat box which is down converting the signal for your television???

There are countless examples of where the problems are introduced into the signal.

So, feel free to "flame me," I know people will, but please post your system config so that we can compare Apples to Apples.

[Chris Gohlke]

Two problems I have with HD channels on Comcast.

On the HD channels, there is a huge volume difference between the shows and the commercials. You have to have the volume turned up for the show, but when it goes to the commercial, you get blasted out of your seat. If others are sleeping in the house, I don't watch the HD channels because of this problem.

Second, there is a good seven second lag between the HD broadcast and the SD broadcast of the same show. This is a peeve for us, because we will often have the same show on in multiple rooms if we are working around the house. The overlaping sound and timing difference is disorienting, so we usually just use the SD channels.

[Macguy59]

For the most part my HD channels (via Insight cable on 50" LCD capable of 1080i) look really good. The only problem I've encountered is pixelation and some of the HD channels are really broadcast at 720 instead of 1080. A few channels like DiscoveryHD look breathtaking.

[Jason Eaton]

I’ll jump in and add my angst with HD providers, or in my case Charter Communications.

The disparity between HD channels is horrendous. If I am watching PBS the picture is crystal clear and amazing. As I switch around the HD channels sometimes I will get white blocks that flash through randomly on the screen, in action movies where there are large explosions sometimes it turns into a block mosaic, and the best is the video pausing but the sound is still going.

Now I know what I got resolution wise with the Hitachi Plasma (42HDX99 for those keeping track) and my main issue isn’t the up or down sampling at all. As the PBS channel showed, the TV is more then capable of showing an outstanding picture. The problem lies with Charter.

So I will cheer this guy on and hopefully the attention the case gets will light a fire under my provider that this is not a good solution. If I believed someone out there did a better job I would switch.

Other notes: I live in the boonies. I am not close enough to pick up HD over the air without my entire roof looking like a SETI project. I only have one cable company option in my area (de-regulation to fight monopolies hahahaha it is to laugh) so that leaves me with DirectTV.

Slight rant… (sigh)

[pradike]

This is a frivolous lawsuit at its finest. The FCC, CEA, and other organizations have defined HDTV as 720p or 1080i resolution broadcasts. DirecTV, Dish, and other providers meet that standard (the only one that is mandated). While downrezzing is a common practice not admired by some, the new MPEG4 technology used offsets most of the effects. Add in the multi-sat investment that will exponentially increase bandwidth (and potentially eliminate downrez as we know it, and even the picky folks will have nothing to whine about.

Just for the record, our HD (5 years) has been super on DirecTV.