Fox Tries to Thwart DVR Fast-Forwarding

[Suhit Gupta]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060920/ap_on_hi_te/dvr_viewers' target='_blank'>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060920/ap_on_hi_te/dvr_viewers</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Fox is running a 30-second television spot with just one static image in an effort to reach viewers who fast forward through ads using digital video recorders like TiVos. U.K. advertisements for Fox's new drama, "Brotherhood," which premieres in Britain in October, simply shows an image of Providence, R.I., where the show is set, and the program's logo. Viewers fast-forwarding through the ad would see the image for a few seconds; those watching it normally would hear dialogue from the show in the background. Jon Hollett, a Fox International spokesman, said the company was experimenting with ways to get its messages to DVR users who routinely breeze through ads without antagonizing real-time viewers by broadcasting a flat, silent image for thirty seconds."</i><br /><br />Interesting idea though I am not so sure it will be successful, and here is why. I can at least speak for Comcast (the calbe provider I use now) and Time Warner (what I used to use), i.e. they both allow you to fast-forward at a number of different speeds. When an ad segment comes on, I immediately hit the FF button enough times so that it fast-forwards at maximum speed. At this time I am either looking at the progress bar to see the status of my program viewing or I am pattern matching the images to see when the program actually begins. I am pretty sure I am not registering the actual ad images that are flying by. What are your thoughts on this?

[Vincent Ferrari]

I think it's pointless.

Usually, as I'm FF'ing, I notice the ads, and if something catches my eye, I roll it back. The only difference between the way they want it and the way it is is the time, not the effect. I still register everything (you have to when FF'ing at 4x or you'll miss your show) going on so this isn't going to help them any more than having a regular ad.

At least for me.

Although I don't think it's a bad idea because a certain percentage of people WILL notice things a lot more this way. As long as they don't stop me from FF'ing, I really don't care what they do.

[Jason Eaton]

So does this mean they believe more people have DVRs then those without? Would seem that a static image for someone in normal time would be a lot more annoying then a 10 second splash for someone on fast forward.

This actually would make it *easier* to skip commercials as I would know exactly when they end because the image changed.

(I admit I sometimes fast forward into the show and have to go back. I love how the Sci-Fi channel always has a station identifier or sci-fi specific commercial then only one normal commercial before the show starts again. Lets me know when to pay attention and get ready to put the dvr back to normal speed).

[ale_ers]

My media center has a 25 sec. skip button. It works perfect, press it six times and set the remote down...sometimes you have to press it two more times for those greedy shows that squeeze in a few more commercials.

I know Tivo has a simple hack to do this (you press a sequence of buttons and it changes one of the FF buttons to a 30 or 25 sec skip). I don't know why more people don't use this...you don't have to pay attention to anything, your show instantly comes on and there is less of a chance that you have to back up.

On a side note, it also works great if you want to watch a football game quickly. As soon as they get tackled you hit the button and they are lined up again to run the next play....gotta love the 25 second clock.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Because I don't have a Tivo? :-D

I really would like one, but it's useless if it isn't built into your cable box.

[dirtboy]

If I was a TV watcher without a PVR, a 30 second static image for a commercial might just drive me to get one so I could make it go away faster.

[Jason Eaton]

Because I don't have a Tivo? .

Ditto. Scientfic Altanta from Charter Communications at my house. I thought about going to Tivo but the whole implementation of watch and taping with one box is whacked. I looked at how you had to route the tv by splitting the line then switching input... then I heard Tivo was coming out with a dual tuner that would bypass that mess... then poof... nada.

My biggest use of a DVR is to watch one show while taping another or taping two shows at once. With networks putting the best shows on the same night and time slot for competition, simultaneous watching and tapping is a staple function that keeps me from selecting Tivo.

[Vincent Ferrari]

My biggest use of a DVR is to watch one show while taping another or taping two shows at once. With networks putting the best shows on the same night and time slot for competition, simultaneous watching and tapping is a staple function that keeps me from selecting Tivo.

Exactly my point. If I had Tivo, the only benefit would be scheduled recording and pausing live stuff. Not enough to give up being able to watch the game (Mets, Jets, Devils or Knicks) and record something else to grab later.

Tivo screws the pooch if it isn't integrated into your system by your carrier.

[Tim Williamson]

My media center has a 25 sec. skip button. It works perfect, press it six times and set the remote down...sometimes you have to press it two more times for those greedy shows that squeeze in a few more commercials.

I know Tivo has a simple hack to do this (you press a sequence of buttons and it changes one of the FF buttons to a 30 or 25 sec skip). I don't know why more people don't use this...you don't have to pay attention to anything, your show instantly comes on and there is less of a chance that you have to back up.

On a side note, it also works great if you want to watch a football game quickly. As soon as they get tackled you hit the button and they are lined up again to run the next play....gotta love the 25 second clock.

Exactly, I thought all/most DVR's had this feature, so this already thwarts their solution.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Mine doesn't although the 4x FF makes the commercials go by in a second so I can live with it. I have an Explorer 8300 from Scientific Atlanta. It's a great box, btw.

What's everyone else using these days?

[Suhit Gupta]

So does this mean they believe more people have DVRs then those without? Would seem that a static image for someone in normal time would be a lot more annoying then a 10 second splash for someone on fast forward.
This is a very interesting point because this means that the people without DVRs might as well be watching those annoying Head-On commercials (for those out of the US, it is this horribly annoying advertisement that simply repeats one phrase over and over again - "Head On, apply directly to the forehead"). I wonder whether this will simply make people switch channels more aggressively during advertisements.

Suhit

[Suhit Gupta]

What's everyone else using these days?
I have the Motorola DCT 3412 I. It is the HDTV DVR box for Comcast (in Washington state at least).

Suhit

[ale_ers]

My biggest use of a DVR is to watch one show while taping another or taping two shows at once. With networks putting the best shows on the same night and time slot for competition, simultaneous watching and tapping is a staple function that keeps me from selecting Tivo.

Sounds like you could use the new Tivo Series 3. I have a media center and have never been in the Tivo camp, but I have been lacking HD recordability (is that a word?). I am now considering the new Tivo for it's HD, Dual Tuners not to mention with cable card support you can ditch your cable box all together.

But $799 seems a little steep.

They also have a dual tuner regular box for those without the need for HD.

[ale_ers]

This is a very interesting point because this means that the people without DVRs might as well be watching those annoying Head-On commercials (for those out of the US, it is this horribly annoying advertisement that simply repeats one phrase over and over again - "Head On, apply directly to the forehead"). I wonder whether this will simply make people switch channels more aggressively during advertisements.

Suhit

I HATE those adds. I always see them when I am in a Hotel (therefore no way to FF) watching CNN while I work. They are so bad that even when I am engrossed in my work, not noticing a single news story (including explosions and gunfire) I will notice that ad. I guess that means they work.

[Vincent Ferrari]

with cable card support you can ditch your cable box all together.

Except that not every company offers cable card support and you can't order on-demand stuff with it.

Two big deal breakers... At least for me...

And not to mention that my Cable company will give me an HD DVR for free.

[bradleyh]

It seems like there are a lot of Cable subscribers on this forum. I guess I am one of the few with Dish Network, and their PVR.

I currently have 2 DVR 508 receivers from Dish (80Gb, about 50 hours). I purchased each for $150. There are no monthly PVR fees from Dish on that particular receiver. Single-tuner only, but that is why I have two. :wink:

The Dish DVR remote does have a 30-second skip button. If I had to use fast-forward and stop manually, I don't know if I would do it. (Okay, I would do it, but I would complain about it each time :) )

[Crocuta]

Folks, if you haven't checked out the new Tivo Series 3, you're doing yourselves a serious disservice. It's HD, dual tuner, needs no cable box (i.e. no complicated wiring or IF dongles, just plug it in, stick in the cablecards and your're ready to go), supports HDMI or component systems, is THX certified and, it's a Tivo. This is one awesome box.

When my cable company finally brought HD to my area recently, I went ahead and got a Scientific Atlanta DVR from them (though I still use my SD Series 2 Tivo along side it), and I have to say it is just painful to use. Going from Tivo to the SA was like moving from Windows XP to Windows 2.0 on your computer. In my book, the Tivo Series 3 will be worth every penny of the $799. (Consequently, it's on its way and due next Monday. :D )

A few points, just so there's no confusion. The FCC requires all public cable companies to support cable cards. There are a few private networks that are exempt and a few tiny cable companies that have been given more time, but 90+% of all cable customers in the US can get cable cards. The Tivo Series 3 supports either a single multi-channel card or two single channel cards to run the two tuners. The tuners can also accept OTA signals and regular analog cable if you don't want to do digital channels.

vincenzosi is correct that the current cable card standard doesn't support interactive features like PPV or on-demand movies. That doesn't matter to many folks, like me, but others I know have kept an additional plain cable box for the occasional PPV football game or whatever. Anyway, the new Tivo won't do it, so if that's important to you, its an issue.

To put this back on topic, the new Series 3 also continues to support the 30-second skip hack that was in the Series 2, so you can still skip your commercials. Personally, I don't use it. I actually like to see the commercials fly by at high speed. That's often how I tell that some new TV show or movie is coming up that I'd like to see. Something catches my attention and I just flip back to it. And who knows, I'm probably still getting the ads subliminally and so the advertisers should be happy.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Folks, if you haven't checked out the new Tivo Series 3, you're doing yourselves a serious disservice. It's HD, dual tuner, needs no cable box (i.e. no complicated wiring or IF dongles, just plug it in, stick in the cablecards and your're ready to go), supports HDMI or component systems, is THX certified and, it's a Tivo. This is one awesome box.

I'm sorry... Maybe I'm missing something here so humor me...

What's the difference between this and the HD box my cable company offers aside from THX certification?

I know Tivo folks tend to be very rabid about being Tivo fans, but I honestly don't see what's so compelling about it. Someone needs to enlighten me about why I should want a Tivo over my cable dvr. I really feel like I just don't understand.

Or is this some of the fanboyism people accuse me of when I discuss Apple? :lol:

[Crocuta]

Folks, if you haven't checked out the new Tivo Series 3, you're doing yourselves a serious disservice. It's HD, dual tuner, needs no cable box (i.e. no complicated wiring or IF dongles, just plug it in, stick in the cablecards and your're ready to go), supports HDMI or component systems, is THX certified and, it's a Tivo. This is one awesome box.

I'm sorry... Maybe I'm missing something here so humor me...

What's the difference between this and the HD box my cable company offers aside from THX certification?

I know Tivo folks tend to be very rabid about being Tivo fans, but I honestly don't see what's so compelling about it. Someone needs to enlighten me about why I should want a Tivo over my cable dvr. I really feel like I just don't understand.

Or is this some of the fanboyism people accuse me of when I discuss Apple? :lol:

Well, you know, it may be a lot like the Apple phenomenon. I say that because it's all about the user interface. I can't speak for all cable boxes, but the SA one I had here was just the pits to use. Anything you wanted to do took forever and it often failed to work at all. For example, you want to record the next episode of Survivor. With the SA set, you think this will be easy because it has a search by title function. But when you do (and it takes many, many more clicks to do it), you discover that the titles are vaguely in alphbetical order, but not completely. You scroll around until you find 'Su' names in titles, and you even see a show with the word 'Survivor', but there's no listing for Survivor: Cook Islands, the current series. That might lead you to think it's not on this week, but if you know exactly when and on what channel it's playing (by looking in my Tivo), then you discover it's really there but just not listed in the alpha list. So then I can record it, but I have to work my way through changing the days and time and channels until I find it in the grid.

Then there is the season pass concept with Tivo. With the SA box, I have two options for recording multiple episodes of a show: a) record every episode on this channel or b) record every eipsode in this time slot. Now that might sound reasonable if you've never owned a Tivo, but what happens with the SA box if they change the time from 8 to 9? Answer: If a) you get the show on a time change, but you also get every repeat they show in any time slot. For some shows, that's a lot of wasted recording that you have to sift through to find the new ones. If b) then you just don't get the show.

With the Tivo, however, you tell it you want that show and it finds it and records it even if it changes days or times. And if you don't want repeats, you just tell it to record first runs only and you never get a repeat. Even if you allow it to record repeats, it's still smart enough not to record a repeat within a month of the first time (unless you ask it to), so you don't get a show three times just because the network shows each episode three times.

There are hundreds of such things that make using the Tivo a better experience. Want to find shows with a particular actor? Takes a couple of seconds. Looking for shows about a particular topic? Do a keyword search and narrow it by various categories (drama, comedy, sports) and subcategories (Sports/football, Sports/baseball, etc.). You can even save searches and have it auto-record shows that match sets of criteria you've set up.

Then there are Tivo suggestions. Tivo watches what you record and then tries to find other things you might like and it records them for you without asking (though it will never override anything you've told it to do for these).

You know, I could just keep going and going with this list, but I'm sitting here thinking that would make a very long post. So let me just say, it's exactly like I said in the original message. It really is like the difference between Windows 2.0 and Windows XP (or in your case, let's say the difference between the original B&amp;W Mac OS and OSX). The quality, the reliability, the interface, the flexibility and options. The cable co's DVR is a pale imitation.