Creative Zen Vision:W and 60 GB Zen Vision:M

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/30/creative-technology-introduces-zen-vision-w/' target='_blank'>http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/30/creative-technology-introduces-zen-vision-w/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"...Creative Technology officially introduced the Creative Zen Vision:W this morning. Of course, last we heard from this little guy was just a week ago, when Popular Mechanics called it the "best screen we've seen on a portable media player." Creative issued a formal press release earlier today, and now we've got some of those magical numbers to throw around: 4.3-inch screen, 16:9 format, can view up to 4.5 hours of video, carry 240 hours of vids, and hold up to 15,000 songs. Also, the Zen Vision:W has a Compact Flash slot (there's an optional adapter for other types of media), for direct transfer from a digital camera -- a feature that we'd love to see on other media players as well. It'll be presented at COMEX 2006 in Singapore starting tomorrow for S$649 ($412 US). Its big brother, the 60GB version, will be priced at S$749 ($475 US), but won't be available until the end of September. Also mentioned was the rumored size-bumped Zen Vision:M (S$599, or $380 US), which is now at 60GB..."</i><br /><br />Being the fan of my Zen Vision:M that I am, it's great to see Creative continue to evolve the Zen Vision product line, which seems to be their most successful to date (certainly their best-designed). I've definitely got my eye on the Zen Vision:W: I've long lusted after a portable media player with a CompactFlash slot, and nothing in the Windows Mobile Portable Media Center camp could ever seem to deliver that.

[Vincent Ferrari]

I don't know... 4.3 inches of screen and an external media slot don't bode well for battery life...

I don't know... Just seems like the MS folks are going in the wrong direction. Bigger isn't always better, especially in the portable world. The Zune looks kinda chunky and if this thing has a 4.3 inch screen, it's not going to be anywhere near pocketable, which means, for most folks, it'll be a dust collector.

[Jason Dunn]

Just seems like the MS folks are going in the wrong direction.

What on earth does Microsoft have to do with this product?

Bigger isn't always better, especially in the portable world.

I think you're completely wrong on this one. Look, Creative has four players in four different sizes, all aimed at different scenarios. The biggest one, the Zen Vision:W, is aimed at people who want a bigger screen for media playback, and a CF card slot for photo offloading. That's not the same scenario as someone who buys a Zen Vision:M and mainly wants it for music playback. Choice isn't a bad thing - even Apple offers three different iPods, all for different scenarios, right?

[randalllewis]

This device appears to be a replacement for the original Zen Vision (with no letter). I love my Vision. The screen and sound are great and the CF card slot makes it a natural companion for traveling with a digital camera. I carry several thousand pix, a thousand tunes and 6 favorite movies on the Vision. It goes with me on all trips. Battery life is very good, except for movies. Usually just one typical two hour flick. And the size is just fine.

I have come to believe that smaller is not always better. I just got a Zen V and while I love the sound and the style, it is almost too small.

As for the Vision W, what are the upgrades from the original Vision? Just hard drive? That is not enough for an upgrade for me.

[Jason Dunn]

As for the Vision W, what are the upgrades from the original Vision? Just hard drive? That is not enough for an upgrade for me.

The hard drive and the improved screen seem to be the biggest things, but details are sketchy so far.

[Vincent Ferrari]

By "MS Folks" I mean the folks who choose Windows DRM for their product lines.

As for the 4.3 inch screen, do you really see anyone shlepping that thing around? And if you say you do, that's cool, but honestly Jason, you and I are not the only types of people in this world. I carry my iPod, Macbook, digicam and MDA every single day. I also know that, realistically, I'm a very small minority as are you. Most people don't want a huge device to carry along with them.

I don't know. Maybe I just don't see where this device fits into things.

As for your iPod comparison, you're right, there are lots of iPods. The Shuffle, Nano, and iPod. All of which seem to be tied to a vision, and that's taking your music (and / or movies if you have a regular iPod) with you everywhere. I don't see how a device this big (or expensive) enables someone to do that, and the same goes for the Zune for that matter.

None of Creatives devices have been runaway successes, and instead of improving the devices, they seem to be diversifying their product line more and taking a more "If you don't like this device, try this one instead" approach. Not exactly the way I would go, but to each their own.

[Jason Dunn]

I know I'm wasting my time here, but...

By "MS Folks" I mean the folks who choose Windows DRM for their product lines.

Pray tell, what does Windows DRM have to do with your criticism of the screen size and overall size of the new Zen? Come on man, face it, you just hate anything that's not an iPod and you're not rational about it. ;-)

As for the 4.3 inch screen, do you really see anyone shlepping that thing around?

Have you ever heard of portable DVD players? I've seen, oh, I don't know, 100's of people using them while travelling. So, yes, there are instances where a device with a bigger screen is worthwhile. I'm not suggesting that a device like this competes head to head with an iPod for portability - it's a different device for a different scenario. Apple simply doesn't have a product that competes with this one.

By the way, when Apple announces a product like this with a big screen for video playback, and you're saying how cool it is, I'm going to bring up this thread. ;-)

[Vincent Ferrari]

Hate anything that's not an iPod?

Hardly, dude. In fact, I like Sandisk's players very much and on my own podcast, while I poked fun at the Zune for being gigantic, I did actually talk about how it's a good step for Microsoft and the wireless features were appearing to be compelling.

Okay, now that we've gotten that out of the way let's move on. (Trust me dude, I'm a rabid iPod fan, but I'm not blind to the rest of the world either)

Portable DVD players. Good one. For $200 American you can get one with a 7 inch screen. Want movies? Buy a DVD for $20, pop it in, and you're done.

Creative? Buy the device for $625 and then buy the DVD's and convert 'em. I guess that works for some people, but let's face it. Most people buying portable DVD players are not the types who are gonna go in for this device bro.

Finally, Apple.

They probably will announce something similar very soon. I have a funny feeling, though, that it won't be the size of this monster (or the Zune for that matter) but that being said, Apple and Creative are in very different boats.

Apple is the undisputed owner of the market. Creative is, at best, a bit player, as are the others in the market (Toshiba, Samsung, Sandisk, for example), giving them the leverage to try something new. Apple also has a huge marketshare and a large percentage of fanboys who will simply buy the device because Apple makes it.

When you're in the lead and you have rabid and devoted fans, you can take a chance like that. When you're Creative and you've been badly trailing for years, you'd probably be better off coming up with better products that have a wider mass-market appeal rather than more of them with ever smaller targets!

Just to be fair, I love the Toshiba gigabeat, but I'm not 100% convinced it's such a great device. Same with the Zune (based on what little we've seen, although it deserves points for innovation, no doubt). Sandisk is the only company, I think, understands the market right now, and it's evidenced in their increasing market share.

But feel free to bring up this thread in the future if anything I say is inconsistent in the future! :way to go:

[Jason Eaton]

Well, Apple does have a patent for a input/output mechanism. That is a screen that is also a button but not a touch screen. The idea is pressing on the screenwill be able to preform an action.

The speculation is a device where the whole front is a viewable surface with no wasted space for buttons.

Now Olympus had something earlier like that so not a first, but it would allow a device with the max screen and smallest dimension.

On topic: For pockets, um... okay maybe big but why not a bag? While not the same market persay there is a PSP, Nintendo DS, Arcos models, etc... so there are ample 'prior art' so it isn't new ground and people have bought them. (Shrugs) Sounds like it isn't for you is all.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Au contraire...

The PSP and DS are both very pocketable (at least the DS Lite).

As for Archos, I can tell you travelling the subways daily, I've seen exactly one. I've seen it multiple times with the same guy but it was an AV400 (or 420, etc) and it's quite pocketable also.

Lots of people carrying devices on the train don't even put 'em in pockets or bags; they just hold 'em. Of course that becomes irrelevant when talking about video, but do you really want to stand on a train holding a device that's the size of a serving platter from McDonald's? I wouldn't.

This device will satisfy certain niches, I'm sure, but I have a feeling it will end up having zero mass-market appeal which is something Creative desperately needs right now. The device isn't for me. If it were significantly smaller, I'd possibly consider it.

[Jason Eaton]

I think I am missing something... from these pictures (had to do some digging) http://gadzety.pclab.pl/news16733.html the device looks similar (if not slightly shorter) then a PSP.

Note the cf slot on the side and mini usb on the bottom...

So was the debate that this thing was huge, or am I way off here? I admit I am reading during commercial breaks. :)

[Jason Dunn]

The Zen Vision:W is 124.2 x 74.4 x 20.1mm. 240g.

The Sony PSP is 170mm x 74mm x 23mm. 260g.

The PSP is bigger and heavier. Does that make is "suck" somehow? No. Would anyone possibly think it would compete with an iPod? No.

This conversation is officially well into "irrational defensiveness land", so if the PSP is a device you have to "shlepp" around and if "most people don't want a huge device to carry along with them", then I just give up.

Myself, I want a Zen Vision:W anyway. ;-)

[Vincent Ferrari]

The PSP is also a gaming machine, movie player, and mp3 player.

And it only costs $200.

Not that it's selling so well either. Just sayin'.

[kiwi]

I like the look of this device, esp. the CF slot for photos/storage..
but I have a PSP, PPC and Ipod already... ;)