I Almost Took the Plunge...Will You?

[Jeremy Charette]

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/_41130624_bb_tv203ap.jpg

So last night I'm surfing the web, doing what I always do when I'm bored: looking for a good deal on a flat-screen TV. Best Buy was the first to entice me, with thier 20% off "Rafter Sale". They have a long list of closeout priced TV's, and a printable 20% off in-store coupon. The Westinghouse 37" LCD TV (with 1080p!) was a hell of a deal at only $1200 (plus tax). A quick phone call found just one Best Buy on Long Island with 4 of them left in stock. So I printed out the online coupon and kept surfing. Lo and behold, BuyDig had a 32" Syntax Olevia LCD TV for just $886, no tax, free shipping. Stunned, I quickly froogled for a better deal, then bit and ordered it. Afterwards I was filled with feelings of excitement, happiness, fear, and uncertainty... <!>

...so this morning I did some more research. Turns out the Syntax Olevia LT32HVM does not have an LG/Philips LCD panel in it, and therefore doesn't have the S-IPS technology I was after (in non-technical terms, these S-IPS panels have alot better contrast, brightness, and picture quality when viewed from an angle). The next model that does have S-IPS is $1300, so I called BuyDig and cancelled my order. Sure, I could have saved a few bucks, but I settled the first time I bought an HDTV, and I've wanted something bigger and better ever since. So the search continues. Maybe that Best Buy will still have a 37" Westinghouse in stock when I get my next paycheck. :twisted:

So, I very nearly took the plunge. Will you? Any plans for a flat-panel TV in your future? Already have one? Any regrets?

[mghannigan]

So last night I'm surfing the web, doing what I always do when I'm bored: looking for a good deal on a flat-screen TV. Best Buy was the first to entice me, with thier 20% off "Rafter Sale". They have a long list of closeout priced TV's, and a printable 20% off in-store coupon. The Westinghouse 37" LCD TV (with 1080p!) was a hell of a deal at only $1200 (plus tax).
I took just such a plunge late last month when the additional 20% coupon appeared. Although the new 42" Westinghouse is undoubtably better (in terms of inputs and appearance to say the least), with the 37" less than half the price of this year's new model it was hard to resist.

If you are aware of and are willing to compromise on the LVM-37w1 shortcomings (corner backlight bleed, not true blacks, not as pretty design, no tuner), $1200 + tax is a steal for a well-regarded 37" set with two 1080p inputs (VGA and DVI1) and 3 other HD inputs (2 component, DVI2).

[SassKwatch]

$1200 + tax is a steal for a well-regarded 37" set

Here comes my dinosaur self again.......No 'tv' is a 'steal' at $1200.

When I can buy an HD set for say....$7-800 (which would have been the price for an 27" higher end non-Hd set 4-5 yr ago), then HD will be *competitive* with my old RCA and induce me to make the move. Until then, I have no desire to pay a premium to watch American Idol from a better quality signal. :)

[bcre8v2]

Hi Jeremy,

Last December, Syntax Olevia was advertising their TV's for $750 for a 27", and $1000 for the 32". Each model carried an additional $200.00 rebate making either very appealing.

I have used an ATSC / NTSC (dual-tuner) STB connected to a 23" Phillips Computer Monitor and can switch between whatever input I want!
I figured I'd be getting at least that quality, if not better :-)

Anyways, I ended up getting the 27" from Syntax. It will eventually replace the 23" monitor (&amp; STB) and the prices will continue to plummet as new technology and features are introduced. I'll probably upgrade to a 37" later this year or early next year, as "I" have decided this is the optimal size for the family (and it passes the spousal factor).
The Syntax TV has allowed me to experiment with the technology at my pace (component inputs, RGB vs. DVI, Set-top Box vs. cable card, etc.).

Some recommendations:
1. I would strongly suggest getting a TV with an integrated ATSC tuner. Pay a little extra for a lot!
2. Almost all the TV's have more inputs than you'll know what to use them for. However, focus on DVI (or RGB), HDMI, and component (Y, Yb, Yg).
If you have an older gaming system that connects via RF or S-Video, Use the S-Video connection.
3. Be careful of speaker/Audio connections. If you plan on hooking the TV up to your stereo, the outputs need to be synchronized (or to your VCR/DVD/etc.) - This was the most time consuming process for me.
4. Get a good remote control!

All the best,

-Steve

[RaySPNL]

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/_41130624_bb_tv203ap.jpg
So, I very nearly took the plunge. Will you? Any plans for a flat-panel TV in your future? Already have one? Any regrets?

I am actually in the proccess of buying a new HDTV in the next couple of months. The problem that I'm having is that where I now live, there aren't too many stores where I can go and play with electronics. I just moved to from NYC to Germany, and the stores here are really crappy, bad customer service and not many selections.

I was first looking into a plasma 37 - 42", but now I started seing LCDs the same size for about the same money, my budget is $2000 or I should say 2000 Euros. The big soccer games are coming here to Germany, and I'm hoping this will drive the prices down. So I think I will continue researching for another 2 or 3 months and make my decision when (hopefully) things are cheaper. :D

[Jeremy Charette]

I'm still incredibly tempted by the 37" Westinghouse. I can't really "justify" the expense (can one ever justify spending $1200 on a TV?)...but it's such a breakthrough in terms of bang for the buck that it's almost too good to pass up.

I have, however, come to the conclusion that 37" is the sweet spot, both in terms of value for the dollar, and screen size. Anything less than 37" just looks small in the average living room, and anything over 42" looks ridiculously huge in my New York City apartment.

I told my girlfriend that the 32" Syntax was only just barely going to fit into our TV stand, and she says "Wow, way to go genius! Way to measure before you buy!". :lol:

[Felix Torres]

You have a good handle on the tech and clearly have your priorities lined up *your* way, which is the way it should be.

Just keep in mind that the tech isn't everything; economics and market forces are also an issue to consider if you're a price-sensitive buyer, as *some* of us are. ;-)

Specifically:
1- the deals we are seeing today on last-year's models will not return until november; they are clearing old inventory for the new stuff to debut in time for mother's day.
2- Expect *big* price cuts in LCD and micro-display sets between now and XMAS but also keep in mind that last year's TVs were mostly HD-ready and this year by law they have to incorporate HD tuners at the same time the price goes down.
3- One way name vendors are going to meet the expected price points is by stripping out enthusiast features (individual color-channel controls, gamma settings, etc) and going with simpler firmware and merchant chipsets from outfits like Geneis, Pixelworks, Trident, Cirrus Logic, and ATI.
4- Vendors are going to reposition their whole product lines to align with the new market pricing expectations precisely because of people who, like you, feel queasy at the thought of dropping a 4-figure sum just to watch TV. But the pricing-and-feature trade-offs are going to be an on-going thing: think of the PC business.

There *never* is a *perfect* time to buy a PC and there never is a bad time to buy. You just need to accept that whatever you buy today will be followed by something with better features *and* a lower price six months later and that this will continue for at least the next five years.

Bottom line: waiting is good. Don't buy until it hurts *not* to. :wink:
But when the time comes, and you'll know when it does, you should not look back. Just remember that your next ND display will not be your last HD display.

Anyway, as to size issues: it turns out 37" panels (with speakers on the bottom) are the largest that will fit in the larger entertainment centers. Mine has a full quarter-inch clearance on the sides and four inches above.

On resolution, you are right to see value in 1080 displays.
Simply put, it allows for one-to-one matching of the content.
If the content s 1080, why downscale if you don't have to?
And the quality is in fact impressive; just stop by the local BB and look for the HD-DVD demo unit to see what FullHD is all about. My local BB did it right, for a change; they hooked it up to a 1080p panel vial HDMI and it looks very, very. nice.

G'luck!

[Jeremy Charette]

Good points Felix. With market forces being what they are, it seems that now is a good time to buy.

- "Old" HDTV prices are being slashed
- People expect prices to keep falling
- HDTV tuners are becoming mandatory, driving costs up

Like you said, something's gotta give. So we're seeing less feature-rich HDTVs, and market prices are starting to stabilize (if you ask me).

As for the comment about being price-sensitive...believe me, there's nobody more price-sensitive than me! Besides massive student loans to pay off and New York City rent every month, I'm just plain stingy. Hell, I settled for a 27" HDTV, a CRT set that I found at Circuit City as an "open box" special. Had a bunch of scratches, was missing the Panasonic logo on the front, and the door that covers the front inputs was missing. Totally ghetto. But it was also $300, and I was a poor grad student at the time, so I bought it anyway.

I've always felt like I settled. Now that I'm finally making decent money, it might be time to invest in what I really want.

[Felix Torres]

Good points Felix. With market forces being what they are, it seems that now is a good time to buy.

Like you said, something's gotta give. So we're seeing less feature-rich HDTVs, and market prices are starting to stabilize (if you ask me).


Stabilize?
On a short-term basis (weeks and months), yes.
Retailers don't do price wars during peak sales periods (pre-Mother's Day, grads and dads, etc), if they can help it.

On a longer term basis, (quarters and years), no.
Prices will only go lower:
Want an LG/Phillips 32" panel for $999? Wait.
You'll get it no later than november. (Last I looked, they were in the $1200-1300 range.)
You might actually see it for as low as $900.
A year after that it'll be at $800.
A year after that, $600.
But by then you'll be wanting something else. ;-)

Its just like the PC business.
Think long-term and you won't have to settle; the trick is to get something you can live with for a long time because these things *last* a long time.
Just be careful not to short-change yourself.
Better to wait to get something you can live with long-term than go for the first bit of shy plastic that catches your eye, as I'm sure your GF would say. ;-)

[Jeremy Charette]

Prices will only go lower:
Want an LG/Phillips 32" panel for $999? Wait.
You'll get it no later than november. (Last I looked, they were in the $1200-1300 range.)
You might actually see it for as low as $900.
A year after that it'll be at $800.
A year after that, $600.
But by then you'll be wanting something else. ;-)

I've actually seen deals on LG/Philips 32" panel sets for as low as $900-1000 in the last two months. I'd wager that you'll see them for as low as $800 sometime this year, and $600 sometime next year. But like you said, by then I'll want something entirely different.

The 37" Westinghouse really hits that knee point of features for the dollar. Not that I'm trying to convince myself (or anyone else), but the fact is that I've been looking for something that I'll be totally satisfied with until BrightSide's HDR (http://www.brightsidetech.com/tech/bstech.php)LCD backlighting technology finally comes to market (at a reasonable price).

[Jeremy Charette]

I also stopped by an electronics store near work yesterday, and they had a 65" LCD on display, for a mere $20,000. It was freakin' ginormous! I mean, just ridiculously large. 8O

[Felix Torres]

Yeah, big is good.
But it'll be a while before those babies become affordable, even with 25-30% annual price drops. :-)

As for the Westinghouses; yes, they did figure out where the sweet spot of the market lies. I'm very happy with mine; it doesn't have any of the typical faults some folks seem to have in theirs. Wouldn't mind having the third digital port that the W3 comes with but, so far, no regrets.
(If nothing else, Oblivion looks cool...)

If you like that size/res but would prefer something in the SuperIPS family, keep an eye out for the new 1080 models coming in the second half of the year; there's several *dozen* 1080 models coming to market.
Not sure if LG will be doing a Magnavox of if Syntax will be doing a low-end 1080 model besides their high-end Signature 42"-er, but there will be lots of somethings out there.

That's why the 720's are moving down in price.
So you get a win-win; cheaper 720's, abundant cheap 1080's.
It all depends on what size you can fit into your viewing space.

Of course, you could take a crack at the powerball and go for the 103" with a Hamptons' Estate as an extra-cost add-on. :twisted:

[Jeremy Charette]

Oh jeez, just go ahead and confuse me even more! I have to say, I do love love love the SuperIPS screens. I've mentioned before that I bought ten of them for my last job, and that 42" Syntax Olevia is an absolutely gorgeous TV.

Pile that on top of the fact that you can get it for just over $1700 (no tax, free shipping) at BuyDig, and I'm really in a twist.

So, 37" 1080p, or 42" 720p (with SIPS)?

That, my friends, is the question.

[Jeremy Charette]

Here's something else to ponder however: the 42" Syntax Olevia also comes with a ATSC (High Definition) tuner built-in. May not make a difference to most people, but living in New York City, I have easy access to a multitude of OTA HDTV signals. Most of the external tuner boxes I've seen have gotten horrible reviews, and run $200-300.

That effectively narrows the gap between the 37" Westinghouse and the 42" Syntax to around $200 (including tax and shipping).

Wow. Tough choice.

[Felix Torres]

You've seen them both in the flesh, of course, right?
You've done your homework, so I'm reasonably sure you have:
The reason I ask is because the real question here isn't in resolution or tuner but in user-perceived image quality; the subjective over the objective.

If SIPS is to *your* eye so much better that you prefer the lower-res, *larger* screen, then there really is no question, is there?

On the other hand, if the Westinghouse is close enough in image quality to the Syntax, then you have to decide if the *tuner* issue is important enough to base your decision on *that*.

So its one or the other you need to answer.
Cause I'm sure that if you really want to, you will find a satisfactory STB solution for less than $200. 8)

[Jeremy Charette]

I have indeed seen both. I've spent (literally) hundreds of hours using the 42" Syntax, and it's impressive to say the least. Better than most plasmas I've seen, and as good as the Sharp Aquos line. I've seen the 37" Westinghouse quite a few times, but never with what I'd consider "quality" input material.

What I really want to see is the Westinghouse with a high-quality input, say a 1080i or 1080p HD-DVD signal. Hmmm. Trip to Best Buy perhaps?

[Felix Torres]

Best test for the Westinghouse is an MCE PC.
Second best is the new HD-DVD player.
Third best INHD or HDNET via digital STB.
Fourth best is XBOX 360 streaming 1080p content or playing Oblivion.
Fifth best is an upscaling DVD player via digital port.

In other words, if you really want to see it do its stuff, think: "30 days, no questions asked". 8)

[jeff]

Last year I was looking for a new flat panel TV. I only looked at the 37" Aquos, and only the older series. I needed the removable speakers and the picture in picture. I decided on LCD over plasma because of I have a Media Center PC as well, and the 42" plasmas didn't have square pixels. And Sharps had the very best picture quality I saw whenever I looked in the stores.

My plan was to wait until it dipped below $3000 and jump on it. After a couple months of checking prices daily, I found one open box from onsale.com. It was a huge risk ordering something like that and not having the ability to return it, but it came in flawless condition.

Sure it was a lot of money, but sports in HD are awesome. Every single Red Sox game this year is high def. I have no regrets at all. The way I figure, people spend that $3000 on the luxury package for their cars and nobody bats an eye. I'm getting way better usage out of this thing than they are out of their leather seats and 18" wheels. If you're into TV, into sports on TV, and it won't bankrupt you, go for it.

[Kursplat]

I picked up the Westinghouse 2 weeks ago at BB. Closeout price - 10% (plus a little extra after haggling)... about $1350. The $200 coupon would have been nice. I didn't have any HD hardware to hook up to it to put it through its paces, so I had to go buy an XBox 360 (how's THAT for justification? :) ).

Mine does suffer from the light bleeding in the corners. Only appears to be visible/distracting when the screen is really dark. I figured for that price, it was a good first HDTV for the next few years until the prices drop on the larger TVs. Then, I have a 37" 1920x1080 monitor for my PC. :lol: