Xbox 360, DVD, and 4:3 HDTVs - They Just Don't Mix

[Jeremy Charette]

A little over a month ago I was finally able to get my hands on an Xbox 360, and I've been thoroughly enjoying every minute since. There's one thing that's been bugging the heck out of me though: DVD playback is distorted. I've got a 27" Panasonic HDTV, with a 4:3 native aspect ratio. It accepts 1080i and 480p signals. So I setup the 360 to output a 1080i widescreen signal, which displays properly on my TV (the TV adds black bars to the top and bottom of the picture, aka letterboxing). But when I go to watch a DVD, the 360 automatically switches to a 480p widescreen signal. As a result, everything onscreen is stretched vertically, making all of the actors look freakishly tall and skinny. Here's an example of what I'm seeing (not an actual screen capture):

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/offset7.jpg <!>

If I set the 360 to output a 480p signal, I get lower resolution in games, but widescreen DVDs display properly (with letterboxing added by the 360's DVD playback software). It's incredibly annoying to have to switch resolutions back and forth. One would think that Microsoft would have seen and planned for this contingency. For instance, my Time Warner HD-DVR asks me to select from a list of supported resolutions, and displays whatever format is best for the particular content I'm watching (480p for regular channels, 1080i for HD channels).

Here's hoping that Microsoft releases a dashboard update soon. :?

[BugDude10]

Umm, Jeremy, why did you spring for a 27" HDTV that'll accept 1080i in 4:3 rather than 16:9?

[SouthPaw]

When my XBOX360 sends a 720 X 480p 16:9 DVD signal to my 4:3 HDTV. My HDTV add bars to create a 720 X 540p 4:3 display. Not sure why your tv adds bars for 1920 X 1080i but not on 720 X 480p.

Here is MS's outlook on this problem.
Xbox 360 does not support full-screen, high-definition output to HD screens with standard 4:3 (non-widescreen) aspect ratios. If you set the Xbox 360 Component HD AV Cable's switch to HDTV, a connected console will automatically configure itself for widescreen output.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/support/systemuse/xbox360/console/settings.htm#Display

[rjcc]

This is not true. I can't say that there isn't some specific incompatibility with your TV, but but I think you may have left a setting incorrect or something.

I have a 4x3 Sony 32" HDTV (KV32HS510) and whether the xbox is set to output in 480p or 1080i, when watching fullscreen (4x3) formatted DVD's it always switches to 4x3 and does not stretch the image for widescreen.

Just to make sure I grabbed the fullscreen copy of hitchhikers guide that I had accidentally purchased instead of widescreen and checked, no matter what the setting, it always played the DVD full frame with no stretching or squishing. The menus are displayed widescreen with bars, but when the movie starts it goes to full frame. Same thing with the 4x3 copy of Waiting I have, I'd test more but unfortunately I try to only buy widescreen DVD's.

Whenever I watch a widescreen DVD, it just adds the bars, regardless of 480p or 1080i setting.

Richard Lawler
HDBeat.com


A little over a month ago I was finally able to get my hands on an Xbox 360, and I've been thoroughly enjoying every minute since. There's one thing that's been bugging the heck out of me though: DVD playback is distorted. I've got a 27" Panasonic HDTV, with a 4:3 native aspect ratio. It accepts 1080i and 480p signals. So I setup the 360 to output a 1080i widescreen signal, which displays properly on my TV (the TV adds black bars to the top and bottom of the picture, aka letterboxing). But when I go to watch a DVD, the 360 automatically switches to a 480p widescreen signal. As a result, everything onscreen is stretched vertically, making all of the actors look freakishly tall and skinny. Here's an example of what I'm seeing (not an actual screen capture):

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/offset7.jpg <!>

If I set the 360 to output a 480p signal, I get lower resolution in games, but widescreen DVDs display properly (with letterboxing added by the 360's DVD playback software). It's incredibly annoying to have to switch resolutions back and forth. One would think that Microsoft would have seen and planned for this contingency. For instance, my Time Warner HD-DVR asks me to select from a list of supported resolutions, and displays whatever format is best for the particular content I'm watching (480p for regular channels, 1080i for HD channels).

Here's hoping that Microsoft releases a dashboard update soon. :?

[Jeremy Charette]

Umm, Jeremy, why did you spring for a 27" HDTV that'll accept 1080i in 4:3 rather than 16:9?

Because I was still in school back then and it was all I could afford. Got a 27" HDTV for $300 from Circuit City.

I plan on upgrading to a 32"-42" LCD in the next couple of months.

Mind you, the aspect ratio of the tube is 4:3, but when using a 1080i signal it displays it in the correct 16:9 aspect ratio, with "black bars" on the top and bottom of the screen. (In truth, the TV doesn't "paint" the black bars there, the beam from the electron gun is vertically compressed and the black bars are "off", that is, they aren't activated by the electron beam gun. Phew.)

Regardless, 480p signals always display in full-screen 4:3 mode.

[Jeremy Charette]

This is not true. I can't say that there isn't some specific incompatibility with your TV, but but I think you may have left a setting incorrect or something.

I'm going to guess that it's a problem with the way the TV accepts signals more than anything. I need to do more testing (using "fullscreen" and "widescreen" DVDs), but it appears that when fed a widescreen 480p signal (720x480 pixels), the TV assumes it is a standard 480p signal (640x480 pixels). Therefore, any "widescreen" 480p signals look vertically stretched.

Rich, I'm going to guess that your Sony set is "smarter" than the Panasonic, and that it recognizes the difference between widescreen and standard 480p signals, and displays them appropriately. I'd venture that it's your TV that's adding the black bars in 480p, and not the Xbox 360.

Here's a test: if you watch a widescreen DVD, and a notification comes up (friend logs on etc.), where does it appear? At the bottom of the displayed picture, or at the bottom of the screen (on the black bar)? I'd bet that it displays in the picture area and not the black bar, reason being that the 360 isn't generating the black bar area, therefore it can't display anything within the black bars.

[Jeremy Charette]

Xbox 360 does not support full-screen, high-definition output to HD screens with standard 4:3 (non-widescreen) aspect ratios. If you set the Xbox 360 Component HD AV Cable's switch to HDTV, a connected console will automatically configure itself for widescreen output.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/support/systemuse/xbox360/console/settings.htm#Display

Yeah, I read that too. But the thing is, 480p isn't high-definition. It's progressive-scan standard definition.

My TiVo is smart enough to do some testing during setup, and asks me to verify that things work properly. My Time Warner HD-DVR asks me to define what signals and aspect ratios my set will accept. When you switch resolution in Windows, it asks you if the new settings display properly, and if you want to keep them.

Surely there must be a way MS can add in some sort of HDTV setup feature to account for oddball situations like this.

[Felix Torres]

Sorry to hear about your problems with aspect ratios on DVDs.

I have them too, on occasion, but it is not because of the hardware; its just that some DVDs (and a lot of japanese-produced, Region 1 DVDs, in full-screen) seem to confuse the players. I get the opposite problem, for the most part; the full-screen DVD content gets stretched.
It happens a lot with menus and trailers and with some, but not all, full-screen content.
It happens with the 360, my upscaling Samsung player, and my much older APEX. Just not with all full-screen disks; some work just fine.

Based on that, and the fact that other DVDs of similar content display fine, I have concluded the fault lies in the disc itself; that there is some subtlety in the data stream that isn't getting properly being transmitted.

Given that the spec allows for content at 640x480 and 720x480, *each* in full-screen *or* widescreen, I can see how some video might confuse the players.

My solution has been to stay with the Samsung player which has a full-height setting that properly formats the content properly. But it is an annoyance to have to reset it for each episode (it mostly happens with tv shows on DVD).

So, if its any comfort, life in wide-screen has most of the same problems. ;-)

BTW, on your 360, how much of a difference does setting the rendering for 1080i make on your set, versus setting it for 480p?
Dunno if you have any 1080 content to try it with--Oblivion renders 1080 and several other games do so, too; just wondering if the extra vertical resolution increase is noticeable or not.
Since CRT HDTV don't report their dot-pitch I'm curious about their actual, native, resolution...

[Jeremy Charette]

Last night I tried Blue Thunder (a classic!) in both widescreen and fullscreen. This particular disc has both versions on the same disc (no disc label is printed on the disc, it's double-sided, flip it to the aspect ratio you want). In widescreen, the image was vertically stretched, and no black bars were added. In fullscreen, the aspect ratio was correctly displayed.

Sounds like the problem is both the 360 outputting a 480p widescreen signal (by default), and the HDTV not correctly interpreting and displaying the signal in letterbox format. I wish I had the test equipment to determine exactly what kind of 480p signals the 360 is generating under different conditions.

I'm going back to a dedicated DVD player for movie playback, at least until I get a widescreen HDTV.

I wonder if upconverting DVD players have this problem? I suspect they do a better job of interpreting DVD disc aspect ratios and displaying them properly in 720p and 1080i widescreen.

Felix - There is a significant difference between 480p and 1080i. The 1080i signal is distinctly sharper and clearer. From what I can tell, the set renders both 480p standard and 1080i widescreen natively.

[Felix Torres]

Thanks.
I wasn't sure Mark I eyeball de-interlacers were good enough for the job. ;-)
Still not sure if there is full native display of the horizontal data on smaller CRT TVs, but at those sizes/prices it doesn't matter.

Just keeping an eye out for when the time comes to update my mother's set. :-)

[Jeremy Charette]

Just don't get a Philips or a Panasonic CRT HDTV. They suck. I think the tube on mine is starting to go (the HD picture on games "vibrates" a bit), and I've read numerous examples where these two brands of CRTs have crapped out early, often in a matter of months after original purchase. Stick with Sony or Toshiba IMO.

Right now I'm eyeballing the 42" Syntax Olevia LT42HVi (720p) or the new Westinghouse 42" LCD (1080p). Leaning towards the Syntax because I used to install and set them up at my last job, and the picture is phenomenal. Best viewing angle, brightness, and contrast I've ever seen from a large LCD panel.

[Felix Torres]

I hear you; the new LG/Phillips panels (the source for the Olevia line) are really good; extremely dark blacks, extremely wide viewing angles both horizontally and vertically.
Not that the previous generation (i.e., 6-month ago) panels were bad; just that the current ones are getting seriously good.

BTW, if you're thinking about the 42" Westinghouse, check out the new 37", the LVM-37W3. Same jack-pack as the 42", same industrial design, same resolution and sound system; updated firmware with a new menu system, newer, better remote, and something like $600-800 cheaper than the 42".
Not a bad trade for those extra 5 inches, no?

As for the CRT, for the application I have in mind I've been pondering the Samsung and Toshiba tubes and the Olevia LCD line as the Westinghouse line isn't locally available yet. The latter might change; thanks for the head's up.

[Jeremy Charette]

We bought ten of the 42" Syntax panels for use in a factory and the viewing angles are outstanding. If the panel is mounted 15' up, at a slight downward angle, and I'm standing directly beneath it...I can still see a clear, bright picture, with only a slight fade in brightness. Straight on, or up to ~60 degrees in either direction, there's no loss of image quality. Phenomenal.

[klinux]

I am fairly certain that your image squeeze issue is caused by the TV handling anamorphic DVD incorrectly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic

[Jeremy Charette]

Wow, helpful. Did they miss the part where I said I had an HDTV??? *bangs head on desk*

"Hello Jeremy,


Thank you for your inquiry. I understand that you have questions regarding the HDTV AV pack that comes with the Xbox 360 premium package.

The DHTV cable that would come with the Xbox 360 Premium System can also be used on regular TVs. We do suggest viewing this link, http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/accessories/getconnected.htm so you may have a picture of how the HDTV cables would look like and how it will work on regular TVs. If you see on that link, there are six (6) cables with colors of yellow, blue, red and green (that is on a separate group) and the second group is white and another red. When you get an Xbox 360 and you will use a regular TV, please only use the following cables of: red, yellow and white (those of which comprises the regular or Standard Cable that would come with the Xbox 360 Core System)
I hope I was able to answer your concern. Thank you.

For further assistance, please don't hesitate to write back or call Xbox Phone Support at 1-800-4MYXBOX (1-800-469-9269) at your earliest convenience. We are open everyday from 9am to 12mn Central Time.

To expedite service, please provide Service Request Number *** when you call.

For more information about Xbox360, please visit http://www.xbox.com or http://www.xbox.com/360.

Sincerely,
Richard
Xbox Customer Care Team"

[rjcc]

When watching a widescreen DVD, with settings at 1080i, everything is widescreen, the 360's menus are their usual widescreen and alerts, etc. only show up within the widescreen area.

When watching a fullscreen dvd, while in 1080i mode, the menus are usually still in widescreen, then when the playback starts, it goes to 4x3, and the menus and alerts are all widescreen, but vertically stretched to fill.

When I have it the 360 set for 480i or 480p fullscreen, watching a fullscreen DVD takes up the whole screen asnormal, no alterations or anything, when wathcing a widescreen DVD, the 360's quide menu still takes up tyhe whole 4x3 area, but the movie is widescreen with bars, apparently being ouput by the 360.

From everything I can see, the 360 is putting out the movie in whatever format it is, no matter what the settings. What I have my 360's display settings set for really only affect the guide and the title menu of the DVD, hope that helps.


Also, after switching among widescreen DVD's with different aspect ration (the office, the island), there are bars on the island to keep it in the correct aspect ratio (2.40:1 on The island) within the already widescreen 1080i window, it no any bars on the offices anamorphic widescreen 1.78:1