A Harbinger of Things to Come: Westinghouse's LVM-37W1 LCD TV [Archive]

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Felix Torres

01-13-2006, 05:00 PM

<img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/1.5%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20Quarter%20view.gif" /> Product Category: High Definition Display Manufacturer: <a href="http://www.westinghousedigital.com">Westinghouse Digital</a> Where to Buy: <a href="http://thoughtsmedia.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=9154017&search=Westinghouse+LVM-37W1+LCD+TV">Low Price Search</a> [affiliate] Price: $1899.99 USD MSRP, as low as <a href="http://thoughtsmedia.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=9154017&search=Westinghouse+LVM-37W1+LCD+TV">$1589 USD</a> System Requirements: PC, MAC, Cable/Satellite STB, Game Console, etc Specifications: 37" 1080P HD LCD Display Pros:<li>Highest pixel-density HD Display on the market <li>Full 1080p capabilities on both input and display <li>Rich Jack-pack; 5 HD inputs Cons:<li>LCD technology limits: black levels, color gamut <li>Minimalist manual <li>Only three aspect ratio settingsSummary: The Westinghouse LVM-37W1 is an HD milestone; the first 1080p-native HD display with full 1080p inputs at an eye-popping price. Read on for the full Review. <!> <PAGEBREAK> Is This for Real? Last January, at the Annual Las Vegas Consumer Electronics show, a handful of companies announced and displayed a variety of High Definition displays running at the once-futuristic native resolution of 1080p. They were not the first to do so; super-premium niche displays had been available at extreme prices for years, and Sharp Electronics had been marketing a high-end 45” LCD display with that same native resolution for months. What made the new displays at CES notable was that they were intended to sell in volume at the same prices as the currently available 720p models of similar size. In other words, these new models are intended to mainstream native 1080p displays; a pretty tall order at a time when even true 720p content is far from common and the content in native 1080p can be easily listed on a few sheets of paper. One of the displayed models in particular drew skeptical looks because of the listed specs, the pricing, and the source: Westinghouse Digital was promising to deliver by mid-2005 a 37” 1080p LCD display for under $2500, the same price-point of their previous 32” 720p offering. Knowledgeable heads nodded politely and moved on. After all, every year, CES sees a few ambitious products announced at price points and schedules that nobody would think possible and which, sure enough, later turn out to be delayed, underperforming, or both. That a third tier (at best) vendor could possibly match the specs of market-leader Sharp at something like half the price was generally seen as...ambitious. And unlikely. Then a funny thing happened around May of 2005: Reports started appearing that the promised LVM-37W1 was real. That it had actually shipped and people were finding it for sale online and at local electronics chains. And the street price wasn’t under $2500 at all. It was under $2000. Sometimes, well under... Now, it was up to real, live, consumers to find out if this thing could possibly be for real or if there was some hidden catch. Some of them decided to risk their own money to find out. And a body of data began to accumulate... <PAGEBREAK> So, What is this Improbable Beast Like? Well, first of all, it isn’t a TV at all: it has no tuner. It isn’t a computer monitor, either, though its DNA clearly comes from that lineage. But computer monitors don’t normally come with infrared remote controls, PIP capability across all inputs, sleep timers, or (until recently) built-in image processing systems. What the LVM-37W1 is, is a pure High Definition display, intended for use as a component in a modular entertainment system. It will just as happily accept input from a PC or a MAC as an XBOX, Cable/Satellite STB, DVD player, or even a VCR. But where it most clearly shines, is as the front end of an HTPC or Media Center PC. First, the specs: Screen size: 37.0” Diagonal; 16:9 Aspect ratio Native Resolution: 1920 x 1080 16.7 Million colors Compatible Modes .....NTSC 480i .....ATSC 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p .....PC 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1920 x 1080 Contrast Ratio: 1000:1 (originally 800:1) Brightness: 550 cd/m2 Lamp Life: 50,000 Hrs Viewing Angle: 176° Horizontal, 176° Vertical Response Time: 12 ms gray-to-gray Connectors .....2- DVI/HDCP-Compliant digital video .....2- YPbPr, component (analog) video .....1- DB15 VGA/PC Video .....1- Composite .....1- S-Video .....5- Audio in (Dual RCA) .....1- Audio in (mini) for PC source .....1- Audio out Audio: 2x20 watt speakers, detachable Video Processing .....Progressive Scan .....Aspect Ratio Conversion .....Faroudja DCDi .....CCS (Cross Color Suppressor) .....3D Noise Reduction .....3D Video Processing .....3D Comb Filter .....Inverse 3:2 pulldown .....PIP/POP/PBP .....Freezing Picture Physical Dimensions 36.6” x 28.5” x 8.4” (with Base) 36.6” x 23.0” x 4.5” (w/o Base) Weight 56 lbs (with Base) 44 lbs (w/o Base) Other features: Installation Options .....75mm x 75mm VESA® pattern, .....100mm x 100mm VESA® pattern wall mounts VESA DPMS support Input setting memory; each input retains separate OSD settings <PAGEBREAK> Pictures! We've got Pictures <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/1%20Westinghouse%20LVM-37w1.gif" /> Figure 1: Simple Looks here, nothing fancy. • The display comes in any color you want as long as you want silver. • Some folks might consider the minimalist bezel bland. • Westinghouse reportedly sells external snap-on bezel frames in wood textures if you’re wall-mounting it but I haven’t found them on their site. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/2%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20Side.gif" /> Figure 2: Side view • Inputs are side-mounted on a center hump to yield a pretty thin profile. • The right side has a power switch, an input port cycling button, two volume buttons, and three buttons to control the OSD. • The base doesn’t swivel but the padding underneath is smooth enough you can swing it around cleanly. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/3%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20Rear.gif" /> Figure 3: Rear view. • The center hump has VESA standard 75mm and 100 mm attach-points; no problem finding compatible wall-mounts. • The removable speakers are connected via external cables. At first I was less than thrilled; it seemed cheap. Upon further reflection, I realized the standard squeeze-clip speaker connectors let me plug my three-way external speakers instead. Or, the attached speakers can also be used as the center channel in an analog surround-sound configuration. <PAGEBREAK> <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/4%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20ports.gif" /> Figure 4: Jack-pack. • Yes, the S-Video and composite inputs share the audio. • And the VGA audio input uses a PC-centric mini-plug instead of RCA plugs. • You do need a thin screwdriver (or very small hands) to tighten the retaining screws on the VGA and DVI connectors; the price of a thin, wall-mountable profile… <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/5%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20remote.gif" /> Figure 5: Remote control. • The remote control is the same that comes with Westinghouse’s LCD TVs. It is not a universal remote but the codes are available to get the display to work with other remotes. (The Harmony 360 supports it just fine.) • The buttons are clearly labeled but not backlit. • You have two ways of selecting input ports; through the source-cycling buttons (14) or the direct-mapped buttons (15-19). The DVI and YPbPr buttons toggle between the two ports of each type. • The center pad ( 7,8 ) lets you navigate the OSD in a straight-forward GUI manner. • The number pad is mostly redundant but it does let you quick-pick choices on the OSD menus. <PAGEBREAK> OSD Settings <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/6%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%20Picture%20Settings.gif" /> Figure 6: Video settings menu. This can be a time sink if you’re a perfectionist; the display has very fine-grained settings for most of the adjustments: • Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, and Backlight all range from 0 to100, for 100 million possible settings. • Hue ranges from (-45) to (+45) and Sharpness from 0 to14. • There are three color temperature settings; the factory default is Color 3, which most folks find a bit too cold; Color 2 is apparently closest to the ideal 6500 degree color temperature. All in all, the OSD allows for over 135 billion discrete settings. Nonetheless, some people still can’t find a configuration they like. Caveat emptor. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/7%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%20PC%20settings.gif" /> Figure 7: VGA port settings menu. The PC settings icon is only available when the VGA input is selected. Again, very fine-grained settings let you control size and image position. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/8%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20Audio%20Settings.gif" /> Figure 8: Audio settings menu. • Standard audio settings here; nothing fancy, and they’re strictly Stereo. • The settings are global: no individual input port memory here. • Number 6, SPEAKER, is for choosing whether to use the amplified output feeding the attached speakers (or alternate speakers connected to the standard speaker jacks) or the lineout stereo. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/9%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%20PIP%20Settings.gif" /> Figure 9: Picture-in-picture settings menu. Very flexible PIP function; three modes, three sizes, custom positioning… <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/10%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%20PIP%20table.gif" /> Figure 11: Available PIP combos. • VGA and the two component video sources must share video hardware; they can’t be combined with each other, only the digital or legacy sources. • The same applies to composite and S-video. • However, the two digital sources CAN be combined so they obviously have independent video hardware. • Clearly, this is a Digital display first and foremost. <img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/634/11%20WESTINGHOUSE%20LVM-37w1%2037%20general%20settings.gif" /> Figure 12: General settings menu. • The menu can be positioned pretty much anywhere on-screen; the default is upper left-hand corner • You can define how long the menu stays up once invoked • You can choose the menu language; English, Spanish, French, and (presumably) Chinese • DPMS can be enabled on a per-port basis <PAGEBREAK> First Impressions Lesson 1: There is only so much you can tell about an HD display in the store. Electronics vendors have of late wised up and started to actually display High Definition content on the displays in their show rooms. (Took them long enough to figure that one out, no?) While some stores run off-the air content, on the displays, most big chains are currently running recorded loops of mixed-resolution content featuring all three ATSC formats (480p, 720p and 1080i), so it is generally possible to get an idea of what the individual displays can do and roughly how they compare to each other. However, there is no way to really tell how well a display is set up and while we all know the vendors would never stoop to tuning them so the higher-priced displays outshine the cheaper products, more often than not, the displays are going to be running at factory spec. Which means that to really know if a display meets your needs, you have to take it home and see how it performs in your environment, with your lighting, your video sources. It is no accident that HD displays are the most-often returned objects in an electronics store’s inventory. Which is why, except around Super Bowl week, most vendors have fairly liberal return policies. Thanks to the magic of a 30-day, no questions asked return policy, I was able to risk taking this particular beast home and run it through its paces. I figured two weeks would be a fair trial since I had done my homework beforehand and I knew what to look for as possible reasons to send the display back. First impression: “That is one big box.” Next impression: “Nice!” The box uses a set of four plastic latch/plugs: You squeeze and they come out and the bulk of the box lifts off, revealing the display surrounded by foam packing blocks. Remove inserts, remove the plastic bag covering the display. Carefully bend over. “...Hey, its light!” (Having just moved a hundred-plus pounds worth of 27” CRT, there is a lot to be said for the ease of carrying even a 37” LCD display.) Set it up, plug in the power, plug in the upscaling DVD player (via HDMI to DVI cable), insert THE INCREDIBLES. Switch the DVD player to1080i. Hit play. “Ooohhh! Pretty!” Try 720p output... toggle back to 1080i... try 480p... go right back to 1080. Definitely looks better than in the store! <PAGEBREAK> Setup and Calibration HD displays almost invariably need careful calibration since, as a rule, factory settings are optimized (if at all) for the store showroom. Of course, really serious video-philes use a Spider to calibrate their displays. Me, I’m an amateur so I simply switched to the THX optimizer wizard on the movie disk. The process is pretty straightforward: the wizard displays instructions and a sample screen for setting brightness, contrast, hue, and saturation. It takes a couple of minutes and then you’re back at the menu and ready to run the movie at something close to what the producers intended. Out of the box, the movie looked very good, even from two feet away, with no pixilation or fuzziness. After the wizard it looked noticeably better. Jaw-droppingly good, in fact. I tweaked the brightness a bit higher out of personal preference and I wrote down the values of the settings to replicate them later on the other inputs (XBOX, VCR, networked media receiver, etc). It has a lot of ports but I need every last one of them. Later, I hooked up the cable STB, switch from DVI2 to DVI1 and run the box’s own setup wizard to switch it from 480i to 1080i. Initially, I set it up in pass-through mode so it outputs the native resolution of the individual channel/show. Then I replicated the DVI-1 display settings and went channel surfing for a good subject. Luckily INHD was running a travelogue; HD video tape at 1080i. (Venice is a pretty city. I want to go see it in person some day.) I eventually remembered to breathe and moved on. The plan was to run the display non-stop for as close to 24 hours as possible, then let it lie for as close to 24 hours as possible. If the power supply lived through that it would live through anything I’d ever demand of it. Which it did. Lesson 2: Dual-pass upscaling really helps. Since the display has a Faroudja DCDi adaptive motion video processing chip, everything gets upscaled, even 1080i inputs. And, given the same source material (i.e., a DVD) at 480, 720, or 1080, the 1080 version looks visibly better. Just a bit in some cases. But it is noticeable. Lesson 3: Resolution does matter. Image quality depends on content. Fuzzy analog SD will look fuzzy at any display resolution. But for clean digital content, resolution does matter: 480p looks great... 720p is fantastic... 1080 is still better, though. At the store the display was being fed a standard showroom loop of different resolution content. And I could tell what source material was 720 and what was 1080. And both looked better on the LVM-37W1 than the comparable 37” 720p/768p LCD displays. Pixel density does matter. Lesson 4: Size Matters Simply put: HD displays can and should be viewed at significantly closer distances than comparable-height SD displays. And this allows for viewing a larger display in the same room. My old TV was a 27” and I was a bit concerned that anything bigger than 32” would be too big to watch at reasonable distances. What I found is that the meaning of display size is different at 1080p. In SD terms, a 37” display is big and can’t really be watched any closer than about 8 feet. In 1080p terms, however, it is medium-sized and can be watched at 5 feet range or closer depending on how immersive you want to get. I ended up moving my viewing position in about two feet or so. I could have moved in even closer, since the thing is usable as a PC gaming monitor at desktop distances; 18 inches and less; but 37” at 6-7 feet is exactly right for my living room. <PAGEBREAK> What’s to Like? Image quality, of course. First of all, the display will accept and properly display 1920 by 1080 progressive video from a properly-configured PC video card on a one-for-one basis. It will also properly de-interlace 1080i input signals via the DCDi adaptive-motion de-interlacer and it will upscale lower-resolution input. The resulting images range from merely good to stunning, depending on the source. Being a confessed resolution bigot, I was not really planning on getting into the HD business this year, XBOX360 or not. I was waiting for something similar to the Sharp 1080p display to come down into reasonable pricing territory. But then I saw the LVM-37W1 in action and I saw the price and after a week of research and debate I was simply unable to come up with a reason not to buy. Cause, the second thing to like is the price. As of November ‘05, the list price of the LVM-37W1 is $2000. Street price runs from 5-25% off that on any given week and the week I jumped it was close to 20% off. With a bit of hunting, anybody can do about as well. Third thing to like? Features, features, features. The feature set of the LVM-37W1 is fairly rich and seems to have been drawn up by somebody who has actually lived with a modern display. There are thoughtful touches such as: .....• bottom-mounted, removable speakers .....• VESA-standard mounting holes, for generic wall mounting or replacement stands .....• VESA DPMS support so the display powers down when tuned to an input with no signal .....• 1/8” mini-plug for the VGA audio input instead of the RCA inputs used by the other inputs .....• one composite input and one S-Video input only. Except for a VCR or a two-generations-old console, there really is no call for legacy inputs on a modern HD display. (Not sure if things are different elsewhere but I see displays with 3 composites, three S-Videos, and one Digital input and I have to wonder…) .....• dedicated input buttons on the remote for VGA, DVI, Component, Composite, and S-Video ports let you toggle instantly between ports .....• three PIP modes: standard floating window, equal sized side-by-side, unequal-sized side-by-side .....• PIP that works across all inputs (with some restrictions on how they can be combined) .....• Floating-window PIP mode has three distinct sizes, plus you can choose to position the secondary window literally anywhere .....• very fine granularity on the OSD control settings; over 135 billion possible settings (no, I didn’t try them, but I did do the math) and the most extreme settings are still viewable .....• OSD input settings that are port-specific; each port retains its distinct settings (a deal killer for me) .....• A freeze-frame button. (Somebody was thinking!) Since an LCD display has to have an onboard frame buffer, all that was needed to implement this feature was a bit of firmware coding. The fourth thing to like is the lack of tuners: in their ever-finite wisdom, the US Federal Communications Commission has mandated that all TVs above a certain size come with HD tuners. Never mind the fact that 60% of US household have Cable and another 27% have satellite TV services, to say nothing of those that have both. While I’m not 100% satisfied with my cable service, it is, for now, er, serviceable and I really can’t complain about the video quality of the HD content. And if I should ever switch, it will be to the alternate local cable provider (yes, I’m lucky enough to live in an area with two cable providers) or a satellite service. Over-the-air HD buys me nothing for now, so not having to pay for a tuner I won’t use is a plus. Your mileage may vary, of course. A consequence of the lack of tuners in the LVM-37W1, is that it comes with no less than five high definition inputs: three analog and two digital, and it has a separate memory for the settings of each of the five inputs. Power loss does not seem to reset them, either. My old CRT had this indispensable feature but it turns out that not all HD displays have it, even name brand models. Yes: Caveat Emptor. <PAGEBREAK> Subtleties Lesson 5: acceptable HDMI input modes do not include 480i. Not that I care, but it does bring up an error message when the STB tries to send 480i. (It works fine on the analog ports.) Lesson 6: Not all HDMI devices support HDCP. This is critical. More, not all HDMI devices properly support the spec. For now, at least, DVI+HDCP seems to be more universally compatible. (I had no problems with either of my two HDCP-capable sources.) This will likely change but you should be aware of this. Lesson 7: HDCP devices expect the display to be fully powered up before them. Do it the other way around and you get a glimpse of an error message. Only a glimpse, ‘cause the two devices quickly establish a handshake once the display is up. Lesson 8: It takes time to switch resolutions. Setting the STB into pass through mode is a great way to see what resolution each channel broadcasts in, but it also results in a “double-blink” when you switch channels because both the STB and the display have to switch resolutions and synch the video, at the cost of a two second lag. Setting the STB to send everything in 1080 mode eliminates the double blink and results in a slightly better image. To my eyes, anyway… Lesson 9: Not all 1080p displays actually accept 1080p signals. This was a bit of a shock. While, the LVM-37W1 accepts and properly displays 1080p signals through the VGA and DVI1 ports (and 1080i through the DVI2 and component inputs) some other 1080 displays on the market, however, do not accept 1080p signals at all. Some, like the Sharp 45” can be hacked to get it to accept 1080p PC inputs while others limit PC inputs to 1280 resolution. To complicate matters, I have seen reputable reports that the current HDMI spec, 1.1, does not support 1080p at all because of a channel bandwidth limit of 165MHz and that it won’t be until late ’06 that the new HDMI 1.03 allows 225MHz channel bandwidth and 1080p support. This is, of course, puzzling because DVI is also limited to 165MHz channels and PC displays (and the LVM-37WI) have no problem displaying 1920 by 1080p/60Hz content today, using DVI. The best I could figure out is that the DVI spec is adequate for 8-bit per channel color at 1080p/60 but that some (most?) of the HDMI chipsets in use today are limited to 150MHz channel width. The bottom line here is that 1080p offers real value both when connected to a Media Center or Home Theater PC and for de-interlaced 1080i content, but that compatibility with Blue Laser players in 1080p mode (if even they support it) is uncertain. (I’ve seen reports that first-generation HD-DVDs and BD-ROMs will only output 1080i.) Whether any current display will be truly compatible with blue laser players is uncertain until they actually come out next year. Most definitely: Caveat Emptor. <PAGEBREAK> What’s not to like? Not much. First, it is an LCD display. The technology, by nature, has a problem displaying 100% true blacks. Its color gamut is rated at 75% of the NTSC spec, which is what you'd expect from a contemporary LCD display. I have no problem with what I see but purists might. It is all a matter of taste. Second, the display has three aspect ratio display mode settings; Standard, where it displays what it gets as it gets it; Fill, where it stretches the image horizontally to fill the screen; and Zoom, which takes letter-boxed SD content and fills the screen with it. All good, so far. Missing, however, is a vertical-fit option that would let you take mis-formatted wide-screen content and squeeze it horizontally into 4 by 3 aspect. In the best of all worlds this would not be needed. Theoretically, it should not be needed. But in the real world, there are (lazy? clueless?) local stations that just pipe SD content through the HD channel without bothering to format it properly. Fortunately, both my STB and DVD player have a vertical fit option. And, of course, HTPCs and MCE PCs automatically handle aspect ratio properly. Third, the dedicated input buttons for the two component and the two DVI inputs function as toggles with memory so that to get to DVI2 from, say, Component 2 will take two clicks if the last DVI port used was DVI1, but only one to toggle back and forth. To some this might be a feature, to some it is an annoyance. Fourth, the manual is, to be kind, lean. While it is clear and readable it certainly doesn’t go very deeply at all into what the myriad options mean. It even undersells the display by not discussing some of the more important features of the display like the image processor or the per-port memory feature. Finally, there is the matter of sample defects and overall quality. LCD displays tend to suffer three main kinds of sample defects; dead or stuck pixels, inconsistent backlighting, or cheap power supplies. So far, I seem to be lucky and have gotten none of the above. (My unit seems to be an exquisitely designed, well-built contemporary LCD display with state of the art features and performance.) Still, there is anecdotal evidence online for all three types of defects. How prevalent it is, I don’t know. Most buyers of the LVM-37W1 seem happy but some have expressed their dissatisfaction online. With a vendor that is not a first tier “name” vendor it will be a while before the quality of their manufacturing process is established and one can tell what to expect. Me, I opted to violate my rule against extended warranties and sign up for a four year, three-strikes lemon-option warranty. (It still came in under list price and I hope never to exercise it but sometimes one does need insurance.) Yet again, Caveat Emptor applies. <PAGEBREAK> Conclusion The Westinghouse LVM-37W1 display is obviously not for everybody. It has its strengths and its weakness, much like every other HD display on the market today, and some may find it interesting while others find it eminently resistible. Me, I’m quite happy. My credit card is a bit less so but it will recover. What started out as a 30-day test has turned into a long term commitment and for now all I can say for certain is: so far, so good. What cannot be denied is that this is a very unusual product in features and pricing and that its very existence and its origins (which will be explored later in another article) signal a major evolution of the HD market, with far-reaching impact on the competitive balance between the various manufacturers and technologies vying for a piece of the $10 billion-a-year US TV market, regardless of whether this display or its manufacturer prosper or even survive the coming market disruptions. These disruptions did not begin with this company or product but they will not end with it either. Things are changing. And its not just the price of HDTVs, that is changing; it is the nature of the business that is evolving. It may not be fully apparent yet, but if you look carefully you’ll see that there is an actual realignment going on, not just a price war. 2005 is shaping up as the year that everything changes for HD TV and by this time next year we will all be looking at a very different technological and competitive landscape than the one we were looking at last January when this display was introduced. The business model and the supply-chain processes that made this product possible are a sign that the HD display business has reached a crucial turning point, the beginning of a multi-year process that will completely reshape the TV industry for years to come, regardless of what the fate of Westinghouse or their very interesting product. At the end of this process, the meaning of terms such as High Definition, big-screen, and name-brand will have all changed. Things are about to get very, very interesting. References: <a href="http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619296-1.html">CES 2005</a> <a href="http://www.westinghousedigital.com/support/downloads/qConnect/37w1-qConn.pdf">LVM-37W1 Quick setup guide</a> <a href="http://www.westinghousedigital.com/support/downloads/uMan/37w1uMan.pdf">LVM-37w1 User Manual</a> <a href="http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/product/showtv.jsp?flag=20040804203848#1">CMO Panel Specs</a> Felix Torres is a dabbler in home entertainment electronics and a survivor of both the home computing wars of the 80's and the multimedia wars of the 90's who is currently most interested in home media networks and the North American transition away from broadcast media.

Jason Dunn

01-13-2006, 05:34 PM

Wow - the word "thorough" doesn't quite do it justice. Nice work Felix! Looks like an impressive TV...

Darius Wey

01-13-2006, 05:47 PM

Nice review, Felix. Very detailed.

Where I live, Westinghouse isn't a huge name in TVs (if at all), so it was certainly interesting reading about this one. :)

bcre8v2

01-13-2006, 06:10 PM

Thx Felix. This certainly looks fabulous!

Does anyone know when manufacturers will be required to integrate tuners (NTSC or ATSC) into their "TV's"?

thanks

Jason Dunn

01-13-2006, 06:34 PM

Where I live, Westinghouse isn't a huge name in TVs (if at all), so it was certainly interesting reading about this one. :)

I don't think they're a big name ANYWHERE - they certainly don't have TVs in any of my local big-name electronics stores.

Darius Wey

01-13-2006, 06:53 PM

I don't think they're a big name ANYWHERE - they certainly don't have TVs in any of my local big-name electronics stores.

Well, that was what I thought too - until I saw a big banner ad on the Westinghouse site (http://www.westinghousedigital.com/) which said "#1 Selling 27" LCD TV in USA". 8O

Felix Torres

01-13-2006, 06:54 PM

Where I live, Westinghouse isn't a huge name in TVs (if at all), so it was certainly interesting reading about this one. :)

Westinghouse Digital is Continental USA only, so far.
Their LCD operation is about two years old.
They're not realy a big name (yet?) but market share-wise they're #4 or 5 in the US LCD TV market, more or less neck and neck with Syntax, and ahead of Sony, Panasonic, and a bunch of other older, more established players. 06 should be a good test of their corporate "legs" as they expand their offerings upwards and sideways. ;-)

(In addition to their LCD monitor business, they have a line of LCD TVs ranging from 19" to 37", and seem to do very well with the 27" and 32" offerings. On black Friday they teamed up with Best Buy to sell a zillion 27" TVs at $499.)

Felix Torres

01-13-2006, 07:07 PM

Does anyone know when manufacturers will be required to integrate tuners (NTSC or ATSC) into their "TV's"?

They already are. :(
As of 05 all TVs over 32" in size are required to have at least an ATSC tuner. Of course, this doesn't apply to monitors. Oddly enough, nobody but Westinghouse seems to have availed themselves of the resulting loophole to undercut their competitors by replacing tuners with lots of HD inputs.

Its a pretty stupid mandate on the part of the FCC in a country where 89% of households get cable and/or satellite. :roll:

klinux

01-17-2006, 11:54 AM

First, this is an excellent review. A must read for someone considering this display and a good read for anyone considering buying a flat panel. However, I feel that the review really is not giving the readers a complete picture. I will focus on the #1 pro and #1 con points as discussed by Felix.

Pros: Highest pixel-density HD Display on the market
Cons: LCD technology limits: black levels, color gamut

The Westinghouse hardly has the highest pixel-density HD display on the market. Both Dell 2405FPW and the Apple 23" HD Cinema Display display 1080p (1920x1280, actually) and have higher pixel density than the Westinghouse, not to mention their 30" displays that packs 2560 pixels across. BenQ also makes a 37" LCD panel that displays 1080i, although it does not do 1080p, it certainly packs in as many pixel on its screen as the Westinghouse.

The downside of the Westinghouse has also been clearly stated by Felix although downplayed: the black level and color on this display, as with any LCD display, is not as black and as rich. To me, this is huge as this defines picture quality for me.

So, if you are a "confessed resolution bigot" like Felix, this may be the display for you. If you are a black level and color gamut freak, LCD displays are not there yet and this display will not likely do it for you.

But this does raise a question of me: how many DMT readers would buy a camera with promises of more megapixels rather than great color/black rendition? I would have guessed the latter.

Lastly, I do not think it is a stupid mandate for FCC to require a tuner. Consumers asked for it and FCC and manufacturers relented. This is a win for consumers!

I, for one, when I buy a HDTV, do not want another set-top box and would like to see HDTV content the minute it is plugged in. I also do not know where you get your stats from but the Government Accountability Office in February 2005 states that 19%, not 11% as you mentioned, of US households are exclusively over-the-air.

Link: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-258T

Felix Torres

01-17-2006, 02:23 PM

The Westinghouse hardly has the highest pixel-density HD display on the market. Both Dell 2405FPW and the Apple 23" HD Cinema Display display 1080p (1920x1280, actually) and have higher pixel density than the Westinghouse, not to mention their 30" displays that packs 2560 pixels across. BenQ also makes a 37" LCD panel that displays 1080i, although it does not do 1080p, it certainly packs in as many pixel on its screen as the Westinghouse.

Well, now, since you actually read the darn thing (thanks! ;-) ):

The Apple and Dell and other similar LCD panels (Samsung, I believe) are computer displays, not HD grade monitors. For one thing, they are 16x10 panels, no? Not real HD-gradevpanels right there.
And the ones with the monster resolution require dual-channel DVI to drive them, no?

Now, me, I haven't seen any cable or satellite STBs with those yet.
I would be very interested in knowing if any such *actually* exists. It would certainly make the new wave of greater-than-HD-res viable as standalone displays. *If* they do exist.

As for the Benq, last I heard it was pulled from the US market. Are they shipping it again, or is this a new model?
The comment was as accurate as I could make it when I wrote the darn thing in november (it took Mr Dunn a whole month to make it presentable; sorry, boss!), so it might need an update if somebody is matching the LVM-37W1 today; it certainly *will* when Sharp and the other name-brand folks start shipping their FullHD 37-inchers in May 06. To say nothing of the 32" models due later in the year. And the 56" QuadHD unit Westinghouse showed at CES, if tgat ships this year.

The downside of the Westinghouse has also been clearly stated by Felix although downplayed: the black level and color on this display, as with any LCD display, is not as black and as rich. To me, this is huge as this defines picture quality for me.

Let me guess, your technology of choice wouldn't be Plasma Display Panels?

Tomato tomato time; I don't tell people how to spend money.
I merely admit to how I spend mine.
I have not been impressed with the existing alternatives and to *my* eyes the Westinghouse is still pleasing after four months. Don't forsee it changing...

I will say, I seem to be in the majority, since vast numbers of HD consumers prefer LCD tech over micro displays or PDPs.
It is also the volume leader, btw.
(Bear in mind that half of all PDPs sold are EDs and many of the HD-ready ones are actually stretched XGA rather than HD-native.)

As for the resolution thing vs color gamut (which is basically 24-bit color vs 30/36-bit color, to simply a lot), well, there were a couple dozen 1080p displays at CES two weeks ago. Pretty much every manufacturer is doing them. So they must think there are a few more resolution bigots out there who like the idea of watching their HD (most of which is 1080-res, y'know) un-scaled, but rather directly mapped to the display's native res.

So I don't think I downplayed anything.
I merely reported what I personally saw and how the market is today.
And in today's market, PDP vendors are *not* hyping their tech's strengths in point-to-point contrast, color gamut, or rich black levels.
What they *are* doing, is rushing to announce 1080 displays of their own, even if most will be shipping in the second half of the year...

So, to *this* I plead not guilty.

Lastly, I do not think it is a stupid mandate for FCC to require a tuner. Consumers asked for it and FCC and manufacturers relented. This is a win for consumers!

I, for one, when I buy a HDTV, do not want another set-top box and would like to see HDTV content the minute it is plugged in. I also do not know where you get your stats from but the Government Accountability Office in February 2005 states that 19%, not 11% as you mentioned, of US households are exclusively over-the-air.

Sorry, my number quoted a market research outfit's August numbers.
<shrug>
I disagree, though, that forcing 100% of the market to pay for a feature that is only useful to a small minority (whether it be 11% or 19%) is stupid.

Try this: by your alias, you *appear* to be a Linux fan (apologirs if you're not). Well, a central point of contention between Linux fans and hardware vendors is the inability to buy *any* PC model of their choice without Windows pre-installed. Same thing here. Westinhiuse sells both HD TVs and HD monitors. Unlike a lot of PC vendors, they give consumers a choice. It also helps keep their costs down, cause HD tuners add $100-300 dollars to the selling price of ATSC TVs.

Now, I'm glad that in today's (or tomorrow's) market, when *you* go to buy a display you will be able to buy one with a built-in tuner as you prefer. But you are in that, as in a lot of other things, I fear, in the minority.

First thing the vast majority of today (and tomorrow's) HD display buyers will do is hook up an STB because, in case you hadn't noticed, except for the seven broadcast networks (being kind to UPN, here) the vast majority of HD content is *only* available via cable or satellite DTB, Xboxes (original and 360), upscaling DVD players, or digital tape. All of which need HDMI or DVI interfaces instead of onboard tuners.

Or look at the number of content hours available; the major networks gift you with, what?, four-six hours a day? The cable HD channels are 24x7 HD. And except for ESPN, all are shipping 1080-format, btw. ;-)

Or, if you prefer: here's two anecdotes.
Two friends of mine bought HD displays *with* tuners, last month.
(one bought a 32-inch 768p LCD, the other a 60-inch 1080p LCOS rear projection unit)
First thing both did was call the cable company.
One delayed delivery until the cable company could upgrade his STB and service, even though his set has an ATSC tuner.

Neither uses their tuners.
Yet they both *had* to pay for this (to them) useless feature because the FCC mandated it in the spirit of one-size-fits-all.
Hardly a win for consumers.
Say rather: a win for the local TV broadcasters/advertising purveyors who lobbied for it.

Again: I plead not guilty.

klinux

01-17-2006, 10:52 PM

The Apple and Dell and other similar LCD panels (Samsung, I believe) are computer displays, not HD grade monitors. For one thing, they are 16x10 panels, no? Not real HD-gradevpanels right there.[

What is this "HD grade monitor" that you speak of? I was not aware of this industry-defined and accepted term (kinda like USDA Prime?) that you are using where to label one display as a "HD grade monitor" and not another.

Perhaps you can educate the other DMT readers why a 16x10 panel is not "HD grade". Somehow its 1920x1200 resolution cannot display 1920x1080 content?

Let's say that is all irrelevant for now. Dell w1700 and w1900 are both undeniablely HDTVs (1280x768) that have higher pixel density than the Westinghouse.

As for the Benq, last I heard it was pulled from the US market. Are they shipping it again, or is this a new model?

Nope, it was never pulled. It had some delay in shipping was BenQ was contemplating whether to ship them with or without tuner. It shipped without and is commonly available (I preordered from Crutchfield but did not end up getting it).

The downside of the Westinghouse has also been clearly stated by Felix although downplayed: the black level and color on this display, as with any LCD display, is not as black and as rich. To me, this is huge as this defines picture quality for me.

Let me guess, your technology of choice wouldn't be Plasma Display Panels?

You guessed wrong. I have three HD display technologies in my house: plasma, LCD, and CRT.

Tomato tomato time; I don't tell people how to spend money.
I merely admit to how I spend mine.
I have not been impressed with the existing alternatives and to *my* eyes the Westinghouse is still pleasing after four months. Don't forsee it changing...

This part I do not disagree with. I also firmly believe people should buy based on their own preferences. My goal is not to change your mind but to let others know another point of view. No need to get defensive.

I will say, I seem to be in the majority, since vast numbers of HD consumers prefer LCD tech over micro displays or PDPs.
It is also the volume leader, btw.
(Bear in mind that half of all PDPs sold are EDs and many of the HD-ready ones are actually stretched XGA rather than HD-native.)

LCD is definitely the volume leader, there is quantitative evidence to back that up, but what do you mean by that "vast numbers of HD consumers prefer LCD tech?" How vast is that? What exactly are they preferring? The picture quality? The form factor? The price? The technology? The resolution? I would love to some evidence of this because as we know, we are all are above average, right? :)

Windows also ship the most OS by volume and I am sure vast number of consumers perfer Windows technology but what does that really mean? When do you get a medal for for saying you are in the majority?

(most of which [HD content] is 1080-res, y'know)
<snip>
So I don't think I downplayed anything.
I merely reported what I personally saw and how the market is today.
And in today's market, PDP vendors are *not* hyping their tech's strengths in point-to-point contrast, color gamut, or rich black levels.
What they *are* doing, is rushing to announce 1080 displays of their own, even if most will be shipping in the second half of the year...

So, to *this* I plead not guilty.

No need to get so defensive; this is not a court.

Actually, I, for one, do not know that most HD content is 1080i. Where are you getting these numbers from that you think is universal HD truths? I mean I know ABC, ESPN, FOX are 720p, NBC, CBS, and HBO are 1080i and I would say the HD 720/1080 mix is perhaps 50/50 but apparently it is "most"?

I know I am not the only one here that keeps up with the industry, CES, etc. We all know this year 1080 and size is the hyped factor. I do not see plasma, CRT, DLP, and projections hype their contrast, color, and black level because they all know their technology beat LCD easily. No need to beat the attendees over things they already know.

Their goals are to achieve the 1080p, which is the holy grail of any vendor, LCD included, and get bigger which LCD laggs. Same market - two intepretations. Oh well, tomatoes tomahtoes.

Lastly, I do not think it is a stupid mandate for FCC to require a tuner. Consumers asked for it and FCC and manufacturers relented. This is a win for consumers!

I, for one, when I buy a HDTV, do not want another set-top box and would like to see HDTV content the minute it is plugged in. I also do not know where you get your stats from but the Government Accountability Office in February 2005 states that 19%, not 11% as you mentioned, of US households are exclusively over-the-air.

Sorry, my number quoted a market research outfit's August numbers.
<shrug>
I disagree, though, that forcing 100% of the market to pay for a feature that is only useful to a small minority (whether it be 11% or 19%) is stupid.

Well, the numbers (11% vs 19%) are quite different aren't they?

For my company (or rather, the company I work for since we are a big multi-national), I certainly cannot ignore the needs of 20% of my customers or possibly 10% AND call them a small minority. Everything on a TV is a compromise or another and we all pay for features that we may not need but I would not go as far as calling other people stupid for wanting something you do not want.

Try this: by your alias, you *appear* to be a Linux fan (apologirs if you're not). Well, a central point of contention between Linux fans and hardware vendors is the inability to buy *any* PC model of their choice without Windows pre-installed. Same thing here. Westinhiuse sells both HD TVs and HD monitors. Unlike a lot of PC vendors, they give consumers a choice. It also helps keep their costs down, cause HD tuners add $100-300 dollars to the selling price of ATSC TVs.

Felix, you really should stop guessing. I am not a particular fan of linux so that's moot but I do like choices.

I don't know about other vendors but Panasonic, for one, sells its displays with or without tuners. Projectors also are the same too. It is not hardly like the PC model that you like to compare it to.

Furthermore, HD tuners do not add $100-$300 to the cost of TV. (As an aside, where are you pulling these magical numbers from?) My LG HDTV tuner + upconverting DVD player combo is <$200.

Now, I'm glad that in today's (or tomorrow's) market, when *you* go to buy a display you will be able to buy one with a built-in tuner as you prefer. But you are in that, as in a lot of other things, I fear, in the minority.

First thing the vast majority of today (and tomorrow's) HD display buyers will do is hook up an STB because, in case you hadn't noticed, except for the seven broadcast networks (being kind to UPN, here) the vast majority of HD content is *only* available via cable or satellite DTB, Xboxes (original and 360), upscaling DVD players, or digital tape. All of which need HDMI or DVI interfaces instead of onboard tuners.

Or look at the number of content hours available; the major networks gift you with, what?, four-six hours a day? The cable HD channels are 24x7 HD. And except for ESPN, all are shipping 1080-format, btw. ;-)

Or, if you prefer: here's two anecdotes.
Two friends of mine bought HD displays *with* tuners, last month.
(one bought a 32-inch 768p LCD, the other a 60-inch 1080p LCOS rear projection unit)
First thing both did was call the cable company.
One delayed delivery until the cable company could upgrade his STB and service, even though his set has an ATSC tuner.

Neither uses their tuners.
Yet they both *had* to pay for this (to them) useless feature because the FCC mandated it in the spirit of one-size-fits-all.
Hardly a win for consumers.
Say rather: a win for the local TV broadcasters/advertising purveyors who lobbied for it.

Again: I plead not guilty.

Again, not a court here. You are not being persecuted.

But... somehow YOU know what "vast majority" of today's consumer does and *tomorrow's* will do? You are in the wrong business pal? Others better than you have guessed more poorly on what today's consumer does much less tomorrow's do. Don't give up your day job.

I see consumers who bought an HDTV wanting to see HDTV out of box without another box. You think it is a win for local TV broadcasters and advertisers. I see it as a lost for TV manufacter lobbyist and a major win for consumers.

In addition, I hate anecdotes - as if Joe Blow and his brother had trouble with their Lexus this suddenly makes Lexus look bad. No, it only makes people who cite isolated anecdotes and think they mean anything look bad. Oh yeah, Joe Blow and their brother also had to pay for features in their Lexus they do not want and features in their TV they do not want. Boo hoo.

I know my cable provider here and in many places around the nation do not show 1080i content 24x7. Apparently in your world, their commercials, station identifiers, etc. plus all their content are in 1080i 24x7? Wow, LA certainly is in the boonies.

Lastly, you say the "vast majority of HD content is *only* available via cable or satellite DTB, Xboxes (original and 360), upscaling DVD players, or digital tape." What is this "vast majority" here? The original XBox, as you know, does not output HD but rather 480p. The 360 outputs 720p, great for the few that has it. Calling upconverted 480p DVD as HD is a stretch and let's not get into DVHS which is even rarer than laser disc players!

Felix, I am not trying to change your mind. I am merely presenting an alternative to the DMT readers.

Felix Torres

01-18-2006, 05:04 PM

What is this "HD grade monitor" that you speak of?
Perhaps you can educate the other DMT readers why a 16x10 panel is not "HD grade". Somehow its 1920x1200 resolution cannot display 1920x1080 content?

Oh, it can display it; letter-boxed or stretched.
In the former case you get picel-by pixel mapping.
In the latter you don't.
Anybody that can live with those "variations" can use the panel to display HDTV.
But just because you can work around some of the panel's limitations to display HD doesn't make it an HD display because HD displays are manufactured explicitly for HD content, not computer display.
(I can hook up my STB top my old 600-line 27" CRT and watch HD that way; I did it for 6-months before getting the LVM-37W1. But I never fooled myself that it was real HD-viewing.)

As such they have features like built-in scalers, legacy inputs, 1080i synch capability, (which even a *lot* of HDTVs can't properly deinterlace) and, ahem *HDMI* that are absent from the Apple and Dell. Which means that you *can't* hook up an STB directly to the Apple or the Dell. Or an HD-DVD or BD-ROM player...
Also, the onboard tech is usually optimized for static images and straight-on viewing.

LCD-based HD TVs and monitors are *not* computer displays; some are actually very bad choices for computer use. And conversely, computer LCDs are not good choices for HD-viewing.
You can do it if you really want to but it is not what they are meant to and it is not a good way to go about it; you will not have a good HD viewing experience.

Basically, HD-grade LCD panels have a feature set that is a superset of the features and capabilities of computer LCDs; you *should* be able to use a good HD display for computer (though not always) use but today's computer displays don't make terribly good HD displays.

Anybody who forms their opinion of what LCD HD displays look like from these displays is getting a distorted idea and can be excused for preferring something else.

Gateway and Samsung have recently introduced computer monitors with some of the needed features but not all. It is just a matter of time before we see more smaller computer monitors that can double as HD displays.
But it hasn't happened yet.
And they won't be 16x10.

Because 16x10 (and 15x9, btw) is a dead give away that the mother-glass the panel comes from was originally meant for computer usage. Which automatically makes viewing angles, contrast ratios, and response time suspect.

Not sure how common this knowledge is, but if you look at a lot of the cheapest second and third-tier LCD HD displays, you'll find they are not physically 16x9. Which means the panel was not designed from the ground up for HD use.

You guessed wrong. I have three HD display technologies in my house: plasma, LCD, and CRT.

Oh? All three are HD displays?
Or is the CRT your SD display, the LCD the computer display, and the Plasma your movie-viewing displays?
The latter is quite common.
As I said, computer LCDs are not the best guides to the HD LCD-viewing experience.

LCD is definitely the volume leader, there is quantitative evidence to back that up, but what do you mean by that "vast numbers of HD consumers prefer LCD tech?" How vast is that?

Vast enough to be measured by the millions and not tens or hundreds of thousands like some of the other HD display tehnologies.

The HD market as a whole is fairly small compared to the legacy CRT business.
But it is growing.
And the growth rate is highest in the flat panel techs.
PDPs are growing by about 100% year over year.
LCDs are higher volume and growing by over 150% year over year.
The Displaysearch numbers I've seen (that is where most of my market data comes from, BTW) show LCD displays at something like 50% unit share.
I'll have to dig the numbers out and list them if I do a follow-up article.

Finally, three points to keep this from growing out of control:

1- Sorry, but the original XBOX does output 720 and 1080. Honest. Dozens of XBOX games support this feature. Me, I have the the two X-MEN Legends games, which run nicely at 720p. Syberia, Enter the Matrix, and Dragon's Lair 3D, among others, also support 1080 resolution.
This is not a complete list but it is a nice resource anyway:
http://www.hdtvpub.com/productdb/games/index.cfm?search=&Platform=Xbox&r720p=yes&OrderBy=resolution&daStartRow=1&showRows=25&searched=do

2- When I talked of tuners adding cost, I was talking TV prices, not standalone hybrids STBs. HDTVs currently run markups of well over 40%. STBS less so. And I didn't make those numbers up. I was quoting "Industry Insiders" from a Displaysearch conference last fall. ;-)

3- Last time I looked, ABC, ESPN, and Fox were 720p broadcasters.
NBC, CBS, WB, UPN, DiscoveryHD, TNT-HD, Universal HD, HDnet, HDMovies, InHD and InHD2, plus the 19 VOOM specialty channels were all 1080. And of those, 26 are *full-time* HD broadcasters, not part-timers like the over-the-air guys.

The A&E stations are unclear which way they'll go but the USA networks group are likely going 1080. Anybody associated with Viacome (MTV) or NBC/Universal are almost certainly going with 1080.
Which sure leaves FOX and Disney pretty lonely, no?

Now, add-in that both HD-DVD and BD-ROM are storing their content at 1080p/24 native because, regardless of how they are broadcast, most HD content being produced today (and I'm being conservative, here; the reality is close to 100%--even ESPN uses 1080p cameras) is in that very 1080p/24 format.

1080 content is the rule, not the exception; believe that if you believe nothing else I say.

1080 content is real today and will dominate going forward, that is a plain fact.

I only mention it because there are way too many myths in the HD TV arena (all plasmas burn-in, all LCD's blur, plasma is brighter than LCD, 1080 doesn't matter) that need to be dispelled.
I knew this coming in so I was very careful to choose my words in the review. And I have been actively researching this market in the last couple of months because we are on the verge of a major digital media transition that will literally change the landscape.
If folks are not *careful*, their expensive "premium-brand" 05 display (many of which can't even de-interlace 1080 content properly, much less display it) will be well-nigh useless come 2010.

I purposefully avoided endorsing the LVM-37W1, you know; I merely said it works for me.
And that it points at *major* disruptions in the HD market.
The way HD TVs are built and sold is changing; it *has* to change if it is going to stop being a four-figure purchase and become the mainstream.
And the only display technology positioned to do this by 2010 is LCD. Good bad or indiferent, if it is going to happen, that is how its going to happen.

Folks need to keep in mind that things are changing way faster than most people can keep up and last year's truisms (ED is just fine for most TV viewing) are this year's outright lies.
Forget the past and question everything, okay?

Peace.

klinux

01-22-2006, 12:01 PM

Well, I think we have said all that can be said on this topic so this will be my last post on this thread and let other DMT readers judge for themselves.
*************

First and most important: the #1 pro cited by you has been undeniably proven wrong. Westinghouse's LVM-37W1 is not "highest pixel-density HD Display on the market."

I have cited BenQ DV3750 as a display that has the exact pixel-density as the Westinghouse. The BenQ and Sceptre X37SV-Naga were both shipping and in consumers’ homes by October 2005 – way before you submitted this review. Brightside DR37-P is also another 37" 19020x1080p display that was reviewed by bit-tech.net in April 2005 but I am not counting it since that is really a niche product. In any case, all the displays I mentioned have the exact same pixel density as the Westinghouse.

Are there higher pixel-density HDTV on the market?

Yes. In a previous post, I mentioned the Dell w1700 and w1900 720p HDTVs which you did not dispute. Westinghouse itself also offers a 19" LCD TV (LTV-19w3) that is 1440x900. All of those HDTV have higher pixel density than Westinghouse's LVM-37W1.

This making the first Westinghouse advantage you listed factually incorrect.

***********

Second, you called the displays I cited such as the Dell or Apple 24” displays as "not HD grade monitors. For one thing, they are 16x10 panels, no? Not real HD-gradevpanels [sic] right there."

So I asked whether this “HD grade” that you keep on mentioning - is this something used by the industry and or commonly accepted?

No, you went into this long-winded explanation to qualify and define what "HD grade" means to you. Pathetic.

When someone says "USDA Prime" or "junk bond" - there is little confusion on what those terms mean - as used by the industry, the professionals, or the consumers. You may not know what they mean but you can certainly look up the definition and find reasonable people have agreed.

You think you can get DMT readers to agree on your definition of "HD grade"? Why does no one use this "HD Grade" specification? Why do I not see this disclaimer on manufacturers’ or retailers’ claims?

You then say things like "viewing angles, contrast ratios, and response time suspect" and "not designed for HD use." Is there is a spec for angle, contrast ratio, and response time for HD use?

In conclusion, “HD grade” is a term that you made up, defined, and used. Fine with me but don't use it as if it is the gold standard.

****************

Third, you really should stop guessing. When I say I have three HD display technologies, I mean that. Every single one of them displays, at the minimum, 720p30 as defined by ATSC. Two of them display 1080i30 as defined by ATSC.

****************

Fourth, you mentioned "vast numbers of HD consumers prefer LCD tech(nology) " and “(LCD is) also the volume leader, btw". The latter is not disputed by me but I questioned the first and was hoping you would show a study that says so. Instead, you just repeated they fact that LCD sold the most. Well, Windows is also the volume leader and I guess vast number of technology consumers prefer Windows technology as well then.

****************

I do stand corrected on Xbox though. I was sure that 480p was Xbox limit but you are right, out of the hundreds of Xbox games there are 5 games (maybe more?) that output higher than 480p.

***************

So the price a tuner ($100-$300) adds to TV you got from "Industry Insiders" [sic] at a conference? Consider how different your 11% market research number from the 19% GAO number, I would hoping you would have better sources. Oh well.

***************

I see no point to argue further the 1080 vs 720 content mix. If you like to count the looping 24x7 art shows on Voom's Gallery HD, so be it.

***************

Lastly, I absolutely detest the patronizing attitude you displayed to DMT readers: "I knew this coming in", "if folks are not careful", "folks need to keep in mind", etc. DMT readers are more sophisticated than you think.

You made chicken-little claims that people's "expensive "premium-brand" 05 display will be well-nigh useless come 2010". Well, I will go out and buy that display you mentioned and let’s meet in 5 years so I can tell you it is still useful in 2010, OK?

Let's also make a plan to revisit the statement that "the only display technology positioned to do this by 2010 is LCD". Considering how much technology changes (see SED), I am not sure if I would put money in your 5 year prediction. What's the percentage of your Y2K technology predictions that contain the word "only" and are true by 2005?

More chicken-little claim like how "(ED is just fine for most TV viewing) [is] this year's outright lie" further highlights how extreme you can be. I am surprise you are not outside the store picketing how much of a fool everyone but you are.

******************

As I said in the beginning of this post, I think we have said all that can be said and this is my last post on this thread.

You keep mentioning your research and the conference but I did not say I am in the global analysis and metrics group of a multi-billion digital media company. I think my opinions are at least as meaningful as yours. I hope DMT readers will also consider them when they buy their HDTV or EDTV, which I think they will enjoy just as well.

Peace.

Jeremy Charette

03-21-2006, 05:57 PM

Felix, you're gonna kick yourself:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4076905

Jeremy Charette

04-23-2006, 05:59 AM

Wow. Felix, you are really going to kick yourself now!

Westinghouse LVM-37W1 @ Best Buy for $1200. (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=category&id=pcmcat43600050041)

If I can find one in two weeks when the next paycheck comes I'm pouring it into one of these sets. At this price it's practically a steal!