Sony's Scariest Patent Ever

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27568' target='_blank'>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27568</a><br /><br /></div><i>"A patent may allow Sony to ensure that no game would be playable from any console other than the one in which it was first read. Joystiq is reporting that this patent is the source of the many rumours that will mean as much to gamers as DRM is for music fans. The technology would allow an authentication code to be read and then rendered unreadable, making the software unplayable on any machine but the one which first read it."</i><br /><br />This seems so insane it's almost laughable, but I put nothing past Sony - they have nothing but contempt for their customers. I already disliked Sony, but now I really <i>loathe</i> them.

[dave_p_1]

I have to agree. After the Sony rootkit debacle

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

I suspect the worst from the company.

Still, to add fear to your loathing, check out their patent for VR:

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000473039440/

Boot up and smell the coffee?

Dave

[Felix Torres]

1- The technology to do this has existed for a while now.All you need is a hybrid cd/dvd/whatever with a write-once region and a serialized cpu/chipset. The companies in a position to do it have chosen not to. So far. Apple is going to do exactly this to their IntelMacs.

2- The timing suggests this is going into PS/3.

3- The intent is to kill the rental and used-games markets. But it also stops lending which means players can't swap or even test a friend's game. It woukd also make games not returnable. And good luck if the console breaks.

I will be shocked if even Sony is stupid enough to do this.

Then again, installing rootkits and gathering user behavior information is sublimely stupid so they just might do it... :roll:

[mcsouth]

The rootkit debacle had me steaming, even though a scan revealed that my PC is "clean". But this patent, plus the Sony exec's flippant remarks about rootkits being okay since people didn't know what they were, has put me over the edge. I have never been too much a fan since Sony started messing with their music players by forcing odd ball formats (ATRAC, anyone?), and their ongoing direction with proprietary hardware (like Memory Sticks - what flavor do you want?) that isn't backwards compatible WITH THEIR OWN STUFF!!!

Is it any wonder why Sony has been facing losses of late, and forced to conduct massive layoffs and reorganization activities? I, for one, have no intent of backing myself into a corner with Sony technology in the future - the widescreen HDTV in my future will not be a Sony - Sony won't even be considered, and I pity the fool salesman that won't take NO for an answer.

This is incredibly sad, considering how much regard that I held Sony hardware in in the past - I still have a Sony TV and several Sony DVD and VHS players that are serving me well, but I won't be replacing them with Sonys.

Small point, maybe, but I'm not interested in supporting a company with such a terrible attitude towards its customers.....

[Jason Eaton]

1- The technology to do this has existed for a while now.All you need is a hybrid cd/dvd/whatever with a write-once region and a serialized cpu/chipset. The companies in a position to do it have chosen not to. So far. Apple is going to do exactly this to their IntelMacs.

Hrm, interesting. Got a link or any more info on this one?

Back on topic:
While I have no love for Sony recently, I'll still give them the benefit of doubt until I see it in production. Right now they filled a patent, if they use it or not however...

The large companies/corporations file a lot of patents more for their potential income generation from *other* companies these days then necessarily their direct implementation.

Granted this is stupid abuse of DRM in my opinion.

[Felix Torres]

Hrm, interesting. Got a link or any more info on this one?

The large companies/corporations file a lot of patents more for their potential income generation from *other* companies these days then necessarily their direct implementation.

Granted this is stupid abuse of DRM in my opinion.

1- Apple let this be known from the day they announced the future IntelMacs.
For a link, go no further than yesterday's CNET news section...
http://news.com.com/Apple+tries+to+patent+tamper-resistant+software/2100-1045_3-5942107.html?tag=nl

2- The key thing to remember is that Sony spent time and money developing the technology in the first place. They can see a situation where *they* would want to use it, otherwise, why develop it and spend money to get a patent? After all, if they had no interest in this kind of tech, why would they care if somebody owned it?

By developing the tech and filing the paten Sony is telling us they want to see this happen.
And it is up to us to make sure it doesn't.

[Jason Eaton]

For a link, go no further than yesterday's CNET news section...
http://news.com.com/Apple+tries+to+patent+tamper-resistant+software/2100-1045_3-5942107.html?tag=nl


Thanks for the link.

However I think a hardware specific chip/bios that pre-checks the device before installing OS X is slightly different then altering the media so it only plays on one machine.

I could take the Apple OS to any other Apple computer and it will work fine, but I could not take 'Jax Rumble Wrestling' game dvd to a friends house to play unless I brought my PS3 over.

I think these are two different things.

In fact Dell/Gateway et all have been doing the Apple thing you mention for years by not letting you install the OS you bought on anything else other then that Dell/Gateway you bought. (Which is locked based on a combination of compentents inside the machine)

As for use? Maybe they are thinking cheap disposable music cd's from Sony BMG. You buy the cd for 6 bucks but you can only rip the cd on one machine. It replaces the distribution system, gives you a backup CD, and the ability to burn to your music player at any encoding rate without being able to lend a disc to a friend.

I guess what I am coming from is let them show us what they are going to do with it before we get outta whack. *shrugs*

[Felix Torres]

However I think a hardware specific chip/bios that pre-checks the device before installing OS X is slightly different then altering the media so it only plays on one machine.

I could take the Apple OS to any other Apple computer and it will work fine, but I could not take 'Jax Rumble Wrestling' game dvd to a friends house to play unless I brought my PS3 over.

I think these are two different things.


Not if Apple is thinking of using a serial number, as they mention in the article about *their* patent application.

Mind you, I see no reason to object about Apple doing it with MAC OS because it is their right to lock down firmware. If they want to do it, fine.

Games, however, owe a lot of their value from replay.
One reason folks pay $50 for a game is they can trade, swap, or resell the disk to other users of the same platform.
Lending and rental are also part of the business model.

Nobody rents or lends OS'es so blocking that doesn't block legitimate users, only pirates.

Apple uses the same tech but they're not making war on their customers.
Sony is.

[Jason Eaton]

Not if Apple is thinking of using a serial number, as they mention in the article about *their* patent application.

Then I guess I am reading it differently then you because this:

"...a means of securing code using either a specific hardware address or read-only memory (ROM) serial number." implies to me a checking process against either a hardwired chip code or read only serial number provided by the hardware.

Neither implies a physical erasure of media, just reading and checking as a gateway. Sony's method describes a physical alteration that can not be returned to the original state of the media itself. Apple does not alter the code or media at all letting you reuse and transfer so long as it is Apple equipment.

In my mind that is two entirely different things and not comparable.

[randalllewis]

Jason, I can tell how upset you are with Sony. Two typos in one short post! I happen to agree with you and I am proud to have a Sony-free home. Whenever I replace electronics, or buy something new, Sony products are not considered. I have a few older Sony Classical CD's and probably a few Columbia Studios movies, but not one piece of Sony gear. And this is strictly because of their positions on DRM and their constant creation of new, unnecessary media formats and proprietary technology.

[Felix Torres]

Then I guess I am reading it differently then you because this:

"...a means of securing code using either a specific hardware address or read-only memory (ROM) serial number." implies to me a checking process against either a hardwired chip code or read only serial number provided by the hardware.

Neither implies a physical erasure of media, just reading and checking as a gateway. Sony's method describes a physical alteration that can not be returned to the original state of the media itself. Apple does not alter the code or media at all letting you reuse and transfer so long as it is Apple equipment.

In my mind that is two entirely different things and not comparable.

Definitely reading things differently.

I'm not talking about the procedures described in the patents, just the objective both companies share: locking software so it only runs on a specific unit of a product.

Apple doesn't want their OS running on generic clones, so they want to make sure each copy only installs on one PC, which is fair enough if you think of it as firmware.

Sony wants to keep customers from playing their games on more than one console, ever, which is going just a wee bit too far.

Different processes, but similar/equivalent goals.

My whole point is that locking software to specific hardware has been easy to do for decades (anybody remember dongle-based copy-protection?) but few companies choose to use it these days.

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, I can tell how upset you are with Sony. Two typos in one short post!

Oh my word... :oops: Fixed. "Concept" instead of "contempt" is such a glaring error, I can't believe I missed it. :roll:

[Jason Eaton]

I'm not talking about the procedures described in the patents, just the objective both companies share: locking software so it only runs on a specific unit of a product.

Apple doesn't want their OS running on generic clones, so they want to make sure each copy only installs on one PC, which is fair enough if you think of it as firmware.

Sony wants to keep customers from playing their games on more than one console, ever, which is going just a wee bit too far.

Different processes, but similar/equivalent goals.


I guess that is what is throwing me off then, I don't see them as equivalent goals.

If Apple burned a section off my OS installer cd/dvd disk so that I could never use it again on any other computer except for the one I installed it on. Then I would say they are similar, but that isn't the case.

Apple has nearly always tied their OS to their hardware. This is nothing new. The only exception was during the time when then allowed the clone market to exsist, which in turn nearly burned them out of the market. What the C|Net article was talking about was a new method to do their old business plan.

The OS will be reinstallable on your current hardware, any other Apple hardware, and even multiple machines as they haven't done machine registration authentication (though that would be considered stealing).

If you want to be fair, the Windows world is closer to Sony's idea then Apple is. First off the OS from Dell/Gateway/HP/Sony Viao and nearly all prepackaged machines that are bundled with Windows, do not provided a clean install CD/DVD of Windows but a restore version that only works with the machine it is purchased from.

You are locked into one machine, and can not transfer it. Much like using a game from Sony and being locked to one machine.

Throw on Microsofts authentication scheme where if you change a hard drive from ATA to SATA, or a new video card and moving a sound card causes you to reauthenticate, on all your legit computer needs.

Well the bottom line to me is that you can't point at Apple, declare them in the same league as this Sony DRM when they do different things, and then totally ignore the other majority of personal use Windows machines that do something much closer to locking software to a singular hardware set.

I don't see your Apples to (bad) apples comparison here.

[BugDude10]

I suspect that the biggest issue is rentals and re-sales. $ony makes $$$ of the sale of the game only the first time; it can be rented and re-rented, or resold and re-resold, countless times with no addition profit to $ony (although the entity renting/reselling it makes much more than the purchase price back from doing so). $ony simply wants each gamer to be forced to buy his/her (alright, his) own copy, so $ony can sell more games.

I've always been a fan of $ony's products, primarily its A/V stuff, which I think have represented good value and performance for the price. I also like my $ony camcorder, and am thoroughly enjoying my PSP. The stupid proprietary stuff (MemoryStick) is annoying, but never a deal-breaker for me (since I don't have that many things that use MemorySticks, and don't use $ony PCs). The spate of DRM stuff recently, though, it definitely making this consumer rethink his position on future $ony products, whether they use any DRM or not...

[mcsouth]

I suspect that the biggest issue is rentals and re-sales. $ony makes $$$ of the sale of the game only the first time; it can be rented and re-rented, or resold and re-resold, countless times with no addition profit to $ony (although the entity renting/reselling it makes much more than the purchase price back from doing so). $ony simply wants each gamer to be forced to buy his/her (alright, his) own copy, so $ony can sell more games.

This may be exactly why Sony has developed technology to do this (they had to have SOME reason to be exploring that type of tech, right?), but IMHO, this is totally absurd. Do we lock a car to the DNA of the first person to buy it? Cause a book to burst into flames or the print type to disappear if you loan/rent/sell it to someone else? Cause any household appliance to stop functioning simply because it is no longer in the hands of the original owner of record?

Sony - you want a piece of the used game business? Then get in the business! Sell games and take trades at Sony stores. Accept trades or do on-line rentals from a web portal/store.

This patent just further reinforces Sony's (and I'm sure other companies, including any represented by the MPAA/RIAA) attitude that the consumer is not "buying" the games - they are simply leasing them from Sony. You do not own the game when you buy it, in the traditional sense of the word, YOU have simply paid money for the authorization to play the game.

Consider the next step, for which the technology exists today - you buy a game from Sony, but it automatically "times out" after a certain date or period of use, forcing you to "buy" a new copy. Given the scope of the patent, is it really that far-fetched to believe that Sony might consider that as the next step for all of their media?

[BugDude10]

Isn't that what Microsoft was planning, having its Office applications on a subscription basis that expired around the time the next version arrived?

I agree that it's ridiculous, but, unfortunately for us, $ony has all the power, and we consumers have very, very little. Face it, we can threaten to "talk with our wallets", but as long as $ony has the music and the games, we're gonna buy. And those of us who actually choose to boycott $ony over this stupidity will make a very little dent in $ony's bottom line.

[Jason Dunn]

Isn't that what Microsoft was planning, having its Office applications on a subscription basis that expired around the time the next version arrived?

That was always a rumour, but they never did it.

...but as long as $ony has the music and the games, we're gonna buy. And those of us who actually choose to boycott $ony over this stupidity will make a very little dent in $ony's bottom line.

Actually, I don't fully agree - I think that people like us are opinion leaders, and when I tell my friends and family about what Sony has been doing in the past few weeks, they listen. I'm not saying Sony will fall overnight, but when you alienate people like us, it takes its toll over time.