DIY Windows Home Theatre PC

[Filip Norrgard]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/htpc-guide.ars' target='_blank'>http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/htpc-guide.ars</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Windows (MCE) 2005 offers an attractive, easy-to-use interface combined with hardware support that makes it easier to build an HTPC that is a true media box: TV recording with time shifting and channel guide, streaming audio, DVD-recording and DVD-playback, radio, web browsing, along with all the functions of a standard PC. Truly functional channel guides and intelligent recording are things that TiVo and ReplayTV users are long familiar with. Today's cheap hard drive space mean many hours of video can be recorded, which makes the replacement of the VCR both practical and extremely attractive."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/WindowsMCE.jpg" /><br /><br />ArsTechnica have compiled a list of the components you need to build a pimpin' "Hot Rod" and a low-end "Budget Box" depending on how much money you've got in your pocket for building your own HTPC. Left for you to do, is printing out the shopping list, buying the components and building the PC. ;)

[g0099]

I am such a fool...I did not know that you could buy MCE retail for your pc. I thought you had to get a MCE pc in order to get it. So...since you can buy it retail...would it make sense to get. I've piecemealed a MCE pc together kind of...I have a TV Turner attached and upgraded my RAM to 1GB and my video card among other things. I am wondering if it would be worth it to go out and buy MCE for my pc. I think newegg is selling it for about 129 dollars. I can just install it over win xp right?

[Darius Wey]

I don't think you can buy MCE retail on its own (unless it's region-specific). Where I'm located, you can purchase it OEM at a computer shop, but I don't think you can head down to a department store and purchase it off the shelf. Anyway, with regard to your question of whether it's worth buying MCE. Well, it depends what you're going to use it for. If it's a PC to complement your home theatre system, then it may be worth it. However, you can replicate most of the same features with your current version of XP and a bunch of software add-ons. The question is - can you be bothered? MCE is really a great all-in-one package and probably more user-friendly with its flash interface, so it certainly shouldn't be disregarded. I was thinking of doing the same as we just purchased a new plasma TV, but I may sit on it for a while to see how things shape out over the next few months. Also, I'd do a clean installation as opposed to an upgrade over your pre-existing version of XP - you'll encounter less problems that way.

[davedeal]

DIY is not quite as easy as it sounds. The biggest problem is Codec dll h#ll. I have a brand new Dell 400sc 2.8 ht/1gb pc3200/200gb/geforce 5700 and have been trying to get MCE to stabilize for over 3 months. Not only is MCE buggy (reminds me of Win95) so it seems is every other program "designed" to run on it.

It works ok as a music/photo server as long as the music library isn't too large. I am currently getting pretty good menu speeds with about 3 gb of locally store mp3/wma. Photos are stored on a server at about 5gb and they seem to not be affected by size (no raw support however). One of the biggest issues is trying to play "backedup" dvds, xvid, and divx files. Some work, some don't. I have been living on xpmce.com and greenbutton (must use IE to access GB :( ) and have tried all sorts of remeidies. The problem lies in just that, most "fixes" seem to be remedies and not solutions.

These are just some of my issues, the boards are full of other's troubles with trying to get MCE to accomplish what it was designed to do.
IMO I can see good reason why MS released this OEM only, it is definately not ready for prime time, the average user would be returning this before they could get through the install routine, which ask for disc that are not labeled.

If you are a technogeek (since you are here you probably are) MCE is a sometimes fun project as long as the family has something else to use (tivo) until you get the bugs worked out.

It can be picked up here
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/xpmedia.html

or http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=32-102-311&amp;depa=0

.02

[Felix Torres]

I'm looking to start experimenting with MCE in the next couple of days but in researching the issues, I've more or less decided that build-your-own is worth doing in only three cases:
1- As a remote media server/editing station to be accessed via an MCE extender (since my media server is built around an older ATI All-in-wonder I know not to expect the MC PVR-ware to work unless I buy a new tuner card; I do want to see if I can still use the native ATI PVR software or Snapstream's package under MCE; then I could get the XBOX extender kit and be home free for under $200; $350 if I were to get the Hauppage dual-tuner card)
2- As a hot-rod gaming pc *and* HDTV-connected set-top box
3- As a pure hobby/learning experience

For all other uses (especially the ones without hod-rod gaming) there are no real savings to justify the grief; not with outfits like Micro Center and Alienware offering well-priced pre-built systems with enough customization to let you optimize your box.

And not with the new wave of connected DVD players built on the Sigma Designs "do everything" chipset that let you do most of the Extender tricks off-normal XP.

Who knows? I may get lucky. Or I might find new uses for the platform thanks to all the plug-ins.
But I'm going to be playing with a spare HD cause I fully expect I either need to totally rebuild the box or just revert to my baseline config and wait for MCE 06.

Which I might do even if I like what I see...

[treo007]

DIY is not quite as easy as it sounds. The biggest problem is Codec dll h#ll. I have a brand new Dell 400sc 2.8 ht/1gb pc3200/200gb/geforce 5700 and have been trying to get MCE to stabilize for over 3 months. Not only is MCE buggy (reminds me of Win95) so it seems is every other program "designed" to run on it.

It works ok as a music/photo server as long as the music library isn't too large. I am currently getting pretty good menu speeds with about 3 gb of locally store mp3/wma. Photos are stored on a server at about 5gb and they seem to not be affected by size (no raw support however). One of the biggest issues is trying to play "backedup" dvds, xvid, and divx files. Some work, some don't. I have been living on xpmce.com and greenbutton (must use IE to access GB :( ) and have tried all sorts of remeidies. The problem lies in just that, most "fixes" seem to be remedies and not solutions.

These are just some of my issues, the boards are full of other's troubles with trying to get MCE to accomplish what it was designed to do.
IMO I can see good reason why MS released this OEM only, it is definately not ready for prime time, the average user would be returning this before they could get through the install routine, which ask for disc that are not labeled.

If you are a technogeek (since you are here you probably are) MCE is a sometimes fun project as long as the family has something else to use (tivo) until you get the bugs worked out.



I think this (and maybe Tivo's slow pace of innovation) is one of the main reasons for the clamor from so many for Apple to release a media center end to end solution.

[sojourner753]

I've been keeping my ear to ground concerning PVR/Media PC solutions. I've usually thought that I would buy BeyondTV. What would be REALLY great is to see some kind of Media shoot-out between the leading competition.

Something like taking a built PC or two built PCs with the same specs and run WinMCE and BeyondTV, et al side by side.

Personally I guess I'm just waiting for the cash to drop on a nice PC like those made by Shuttle.

I feel like my time is coming. :)

[that_kid]

I'm a long time BTV user (since version 1) but recently I've been playing with SageTV and just tonight I went and purchased Sage. The reason was Sage worked much better on the same hardware that Beyond TV had problems with and the picture quality is much better. I have MCE and have been really thinking about installing it but it's limited tuner ability is the only thing keeping me from using that as my pvr of choice. Right now I have 6 pvr 150's running with sage and i'm using the hauppage mvp's as extenders in the bedroom and my son's room. Even with all the success that i'm having with Sage I still find myself looking at MCE. Maybe once more tuners can be used I'll go that route but until then my Sage setup is great.

[davedeal]

I'm a long time BTV user (since version 1) but recently I've been playing with SageTV and just tonight I went and purchased Sage. The reason was Sage worked much better on the same hardware that Beyond TV had problems with and the picture quality is much better. I have MCE and have been really thinking about installing it but it's limited tuner ability is the only thing keeping me from using that as my pvr of choice. Right now I have 6 pvr 150's running with sage and i'm using the hauppage mvp's as extenders in the bedroom and my son's room. Even with all the success that i'm having with Sage I still find myself looking at MCE. Maybe once more tuners can be used I'll go that route but until then my Sage setup is great.

How well does sage handle vob, xvid,divx and mp3 from a central server? I have been eyeing sage but find little info on it's streaming capabilities. Know of any good message boards.

[that_kid]

The only thing i've tried are mp3's, i have a couple of dvd files that i want to try as well. I can give that a try tonight and let you know. As far as message boards forums.freytechnologies.com/forums and i believe there's a board at htpcnews.com.

[blot]

I've been piecing together an XP MCE box for the last month or so. I'm actually supposed to get a the last few parts I need today. Here's the setup:

Antec Aria case
Biostar K8VGA-M MicroATX motherboard
AMD 64 2800+ CPU
512MB PC2700 RAM that I stole from my other pc (plan to put 1GB in later)
Zalman CNPS7000B-CU 120mm fan with heatsink (this thing is huge, and heavy)
2x250GB Seagate SATA Hard drives in RAID 0
ATI 9600 XT 128MB video card
ATI HDTV Wonder
Hauppage WinTV PVR 150MCE for hardware analog TV tuning (MCE requires at least one analog hardware encoder for tv viewing)
NEC ND-3520A Dual layer optical burning drive

The Hauppage card comes today, but I was able to get XP MCE up and running over the weekend. The only hitch was slipstreaming the RAID drivers into the installation CD since my box doesn't have a floppy drive. So far, I'm quite impressed with the package. Fitting the above into the Aria case wasn't too challenging, but it was tight at times. As stated above, I haven't been able to use the HDTV tuner in this box yet because XP MCE requires a hardware analog tuner for TV functions to work. As far as I've read, ATI All-In-Wonder cards won't cut it. They may work as an additional tuner, but I'm not sure of it. Anyway, I just thought I'd share my experience with it so far, for those who may be considering building a custom media center PC. I'll try to report back later when I get the analog tuner installed.

*edit* Okay, I just went back and RTFA and noticed that the author had a lot of the same or similar components in the "Hot Rod" edition. One thing that concerns me is that he mentions putting two HDTV Wonders in the same box. From what I've heard, this is not possible. I believe that XP MCE 2005 can support multiple hardware encoding tuners, but only ONE non-hardware tuner, such as the HDTV wonder. Something to consider when considering this author's suggestions. If anyone else can dispute the rumors I've heard, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

[JonnoB]

Until there is a tuner with a cable card or a tuner that supports DirecTV natively, MCE is doomed to be a niche solution. Integrated PVRs are just too easy for the masses. I want to use MCE, but the requirements for DirecTV integration has left me wanting. Anyone have a 'good' experience going from a DirecTivo or similar setup to an MCE solution?

[davedeal]

Until there is a tuner with a cable card or a tuner that supports DirecTV natively, MCE is doomed to be a niche solution. Integrated PVRs are just too easy for the masses. I want to use MCE, but the requirements for DirecTV integration has left me wanting. Anyone have a 'good' experience going from a DirecTivo or similar setup to an MCE solution?

That's what I intended to come from ( currently use 2 directivos) and after 3 months with MCE there is NO WAY I could switch (the family) over. Dtivos are just too easy and RELIABLE (albiet limited in functionality). Of course this doesn't address the issue of HD tv, not sure how to handle that. The HDTivo is rediculously expensive, so my hopes are still up for an economical soultion to appear on the scene soon.

[Felix Torres]

In case anybody actually cares:

I installed MCE05 on my homebuilt media server over the weekend and took it for a spin.
Mobo; ABIT IT-7
CPU: Celeron 1.7
RAM: 512Mb
Video Card: All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500DV
Which is to say marginal hardware for 05. :-0

Installation went smoothly.
No glitches whatsoever.
RAID drivers went in, no problem
Audio drivers went in, no problem, wiping out the last caution in the Device Manager

Then the fun begins.
Media Center, of course, reports no compatible tuner card. No surprise.
Audio works, visualizers and all.
Slideshows work; nice effects, nice default behavior.
Internet access auto-configured itself.
I did nothing to get on the network; all automated.
(Have I mentioned I love XP?)
MCE remote recognized and installed automatically along the way without prompting.
In fact, very little prompting during set-up.

I seem to have fully functional non-tuner MCE.
Since Dell and others sell such a configuration, this is not a surprise.

Now to live dangerously; I install the all-in-wonder tuner drivers (wdm).
Reboot. No problems.
Install the ATI MMC. Reboot. No problem
(I can't find the original install CD so ATI DVD decoder will have to wait).
Launch the TV viewer app; the set-up wizard kicks in.
Cable scan, audio channel, record preferences; all systems nominal.
We have a working tuner.
Start manual record.
Works.
Stop manual record.
Double-click wmv file; WMP10 plays it without a hitch.
All standard XP-pro ferformance.

Start Media center app.
Play music.
Play slideshow.
Check out Spotlight.
(No damage done from warring DLL's).
All systems go.
Locate recorded video; it sees it and recognizes it as WMV.

It *won't* playback.
Error message about needing to install video card or driver.

Repeat process downloading Beyond TV trial edition.
Again, works flawless on XP desktop but Media Center won't play back the files; not even the demo file that Beyond TV installs.

Best guess: Media Center app only installs video playback codecs if it sees a compatible tuner card.
Hardly a shock, but a bit of a surprise.
Not sure if CINEMANOW will work without the wmv codecs.

Choices; buy XBOX extender kit and see if the remote video playback is independent of the local tuner driver. It *should* be.
I *should* be able to play the generic wmv on the extender without an MCE tuner card.

This is the scenario I'm testing for; using MCE almost exclusively as a media server (occasional video recording and editing). Theory says it should work. If I try it and it doesn't work, I'll have to go to Plan B; buy a single tuner Hauppage card and use the ATI as a video card+secondary tuner. Not sure if my three year-old CPU+RAM combo are up to dual recording sessions, though. Probably not.

Plan C is to revert to XP pro and get a do-everything connected DVD.

Not sure which way I'll go.

I think I'll see if my office mate will break down first and get the XBOX kit before the new connected dvds hit the street...
(He has the same ATI card but a newer mobo/cpu combo and much more need of the extender than I do.) :twisted:
(Oh, PC Mall is taking orders for the Buffalo Technologies connected dvd player...)

Anybody out there try to drive an extender from a non-tuner MCE?

[davedeal]

fwiw - pretty good summation of the extender kit for xbox
http://www.xbox365.com/news/news.cgi/article/EEpVVZVukuIPvhvFBC5424

[that_kid]

How well does sage handle vob, xvid,divx and mp3 from a central server? I have been eyeing sage but find little info on it's streaming capabilities. Know of any good message boards.

Ok I gave the vob side a spin and at first I ran into problems. The default sage decoder had problems playing stuff that I had. I then installed powerdvd and set sage to use that decoder when playing dvd's and BAM it worked like a charm. Now if I can only afford the 12TB file server I need to hold all my movies......

[davedeal]

How well does sage handle vob, xvid,divx and mp3 from a central server? I have been eyeing sage but find little info on it's streaming capabilities. Know of any good message boards.

Ok I gave the vob side a spin and at first I ran into problems. The default sage decoder had problems playing stuff that I had. I then installed powerdvd and set sage to use that decoder when playing dvd's and BAM it worked like a charm. Now if I can only afford the 12TB file server I need to hold all my movies......

Great! Thanks for the info.
I will look into putting together a Sage box this weekend. Did you by chance try mpeg4 (divx, xvid)?

[that_kid]

Haven't tried divx yet, but I should be able to do that tomorrow. I think I have some divx stuff around here to try out.

[blot]

In case anybody actually cares:
...

Video Card: All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500DV

...

Media Center, of course, reports no compatible tuner card. No surprise.

I don't know much about this, but in my readings today I recall seeing something about "Kram" drivers to get AIW cards working on MCE. I seem to recall that the cards being discussed were more recent than your 8500DV but it may be worth a look.

[Felix Torres]

I don't know much about this, but in my readings today I recall seeing something about "Kram" drivers to get AIW cards working on MCE. I seem to recall that the cards being discussed were more recent than your 8500DV but it may be worth a look.

Thanks for the link.
KRAM is a knowledgeable techie who hacked up a modified set of ATI9xxx series catalyst drivers to work with, first, MCE2004 and most recently with MCE05.
I tracked them down and will give them a try though I doubt they'll work with the older 8500DV.
But that's exactly why I'm experimenting with this non-production configuration.

As is, I found a hint that video playback in the Media Center app may depend on having MCE-compatible dvd drivers even if you're not looking to play dvds. I suspect that may be true for MPEG files and not necessarily WMVs, but it can't hurt to try out...

Its educational, if nothing else.
Besides, the more I play with this, the cheaper the $60 Hauppage tuner card looks. :twisted:

Update: Tried the hacked drivers. They work as advertised. But since they are meant for an aiw-9xxx, they kill the tv tuner function on the 8500dv. The choice is thus no video capacity at all in the Media Center app with full tv tuner capability via regular xp, or full video playback in both environments with zero tv tuner capacity anywhere.

Like I said: a learning experience... 8)