Mac Fans Flame RealNetworks

[Kent Pribbernow]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.com.com/Real+gets+flamed+over+iPod+campaign/2100-1041_3-5314753.html?tag=cd.hed' target='_blank'>http://news.com.com/Real+gets+flamed+over+iPod+campaign/2100-1041_3-5314753.html?tag=cd.hed</a><br /><br /></div><i>"A campaign and petition to get music fans to support the company's (Real) open stance--hasn't worked out quite as it might have hoped, after some people besieged the petition with obscenities and anti-RealNetworks postings..."</i><br /><br />I know many of you will find this sort of behavior shocking as Mac users are renowned for their calmness and warm personalities. :P <br /><br />This is an example of why I sometimes hate the Mac community, which is populated by impish juveniles and raving zealots. These people will attack anything this isn't Apple. In this case, RealNetworks is the latest victim of the Mac jihad. If these idiots had any rational sense about them they would realize that much of what RealNetworks is trying to do is actually good for them and consumers. But no...we have to resort to name calling and flaming. And they call PC users lemmings? :roll:

[Gary Sheynkman]

Although I agree on some things there...Real = legal virus....grrr

[aro]

Maybe that is why this Mac community is still on the map.
Small map,.. but sometime "small is beautiful".

Having a couple of Mac at home I can understand all this "pc bashing".
But it happened a couple of time that I've been ashamed from this community. A good exemple would be the reader's section of "Mac design" magazine. Ridiculous!

aro

[djh]

I love Macs.
Since I installed Linux on my iMac it's been a great computer. :D

[Cameron K]

That post was actually fairly offensive. As far as I know, I've never acted as a juvenile or raving idiot on here. Consider this one of my last posts (I have notify of new reply's turned on, so that I can respond to the flames I'm going to get from this post). Take my advice though, as a site based on digital media, you're going to deal with a lot of Apple users, as that's what many of us buy our macs for. And aside from making you look like an amateur that doesn't know the first thing about good journalism, you're also going to piss off a great deal of your userbase and make this site even more sparse than it already is (not saying that's a bad thing, this was one of my favorite sites, despite the lack of community involvement). So there's my rant. Flame away.

[Filip Norrgard]

Whoa! Calm down Cameron K! 8O

I think Kent was talking about the Mac fanatics that resort to the flame wars and (death/S&M) threats towards people like Real Networks, jokers and such.

Although, Kent did write the text so that it is easy to misunderstand to whom he is implying is "juvenile and childish" in their behaviour. Is he implying that they are everyone in Mac fanbase, or just the Mac zealots?
Since he had linked to that article, I suppose that he is implying the group of Mac zealots that restort to basically unmature behavior is the Mac users he is talking about. I.e. not you best Cameron (unless you belong to that group of zealots :P )

As you also can see, these zealots are hurting the general public's view of the Mac community by their distinctive behavior. Us "outside" of the community get a prejudiced image of the general Mac community being such as that what the zealots project. In fact, many communities do get a bad image due to zealots and the zealots are to thank for the prejudices of the communities they belong to. You get me this far? :roll:

I hope that I'm correct in my analysis and that Kent will addendum his post to reflect which "people" he doesn't like. And, maybe make it sound a bit less offensive... ;)

[Mr. MacinTiger]

:evil:

Real media illegally reversed-engineered Apple's technology and all Mac users are trying to do is stand up for the platform. We are already a jaded and tired bunch, after watching Microsoft cheat us through the years and now we have to put up with Real's junk too.

Screw this site and it's bias towards MS and Real...You boys can bunk over and like taking it from those two, but as for me I am outta here.

[gdoerr56]

So, because Real reverse-engineered Apple's PROPRIETARY DRM technology we are all going to resort to bashing them?

Reverse engineering a system to avoid licensing fees is one thing but industry has a long history of reverse engineering products to produce clones. The entire PC world grew up this way.

I say shame on Apple for closing their system to outside innovation and competition.

And for those people who elect to leave this site because the views expressed don't match their own, I feel sorry for you that you are not secure enough in your convictions to handle a dissenting or disagreeable opinion.

[Felix Torres]

Uh, isn't Mr Pribbernow the local Mac editor?
Seems some folks are complaining the pope ain't catholic enough... ;-)

Whether it be Amiga, OS/2, Linux, Mac, or iPod, some platforms seem to attract a certain mentality; defensive, argumentative, and way, way too aggressive for their own good.
Historically, their efforts to "defend" their platform of choice ends up shaming the community they pretend to defend.

Civility matters, folks.

What Mr Pribbernow seems to be pointing out is that making REAL a martyr at the altar of Apple does *nobody* any good.

And while most folk round these parts have no love for Real and their operation, rants and insults only succeed in making *them* look reasonable and logical; after all if the *only* counter to their arguments is insults and personal attacks, that means that they *are* in the right.

To paraphrase Isaac Asimov: "Verbal violence is the last resort of the incompentent."

Me, I'm not sure I like the idea of a world where REAL Networks is the good guy.

So please, lets find something rational to hit them with? Cause reverse-engineering is perfectly legal; just ask the Linux crowd, SUN, IBM, Intel, and just about every single Asian electronics manufacturer of the face of the Earth.

Say that you're offended by their business practices if you are.
Say that you consider their products too be shoddy and dangerous if you think so.
Say that their preaching of "freedom of choice" is disingenuous, since they don't see fit to support the Macintosh platform (with its 2% market share) but they do want a piece of the Pod action (29% market share).

But calling people's names and questioning their integrity and competence just because they disagree with you?
Well, that *is* in point of fact, childish and immature.

Point goes to Mr Pribbernow.

[bdegroodt]

Uh...My iPod can beat your iPod up, Kent! :P

Seriously, it may be childish, and the posts may be "offensive" (and I don't support it) but Real had to see this coming if they had any clue about Apple's legal history, and their loyal following.

It's just one additional misstep in their history. Real is like that kid on the playground nobody wants to play with, but tries to hang out with the cool kid (even if in the background) to get some of the leftovers.

[Filip Norrgard]

Real media illegally reversed-engineered Apple's technology and all Mac users are trying to do is stand up for the platform. We are already a jaded and tired bunch, after watching Microsoft cheat us through the years and now we have to put up with Real's junk too.
Whether or not the thing that Real did was illegal is better left for the lawyers to strangle eachother over in courts. Assuming now that it was an illegal move by Real, it doesn't justify thretning the people at Real to do steralize them, hanging them by various body parts and other wierd "experiments". :x *shivers*
Screw this site and it's bias towards MS and Real...You boys can bunk over and like taking it from those two, but as for me I am outta here.I, myself, don't like Real for whatever they do good or bad. Their software is so trashy and CPU hogger that I avoid them 'til the days of armageddon. (And, I haven't noticed any strong bias for Real on this site, btw.) :evil:
Talking about biased, have you managed to find a true unbiased site anywhere on the net? It is hard since humans are biased by nature and it is hard for humans to just flip to bias-switch to off. :roll:

[rzanology]

sounds like these mac users need a hug. If you can't see that what real is doing is for the better, then perhaps you should be called an idot. If you support an company that charges $120 for a service pack, then perhaps you should be called an ido....Oh im sorry, thats off topic.

[bdegroodt]

sounds like these mac users need a hug. If you can't see that what real is doing is for the better, then perhaps you should be called an idot. If you support an company that charges $120 for a service pack, then perhaps you should be called an ido....Oh im sorry, thats off topic.

Classic! I had to capture this before our "friend" got a grip and realized how in spirit and spelling, he's crowned himself. Nice job. Good work fostering a community spirit...King.

[Kent Pribbernow]

Posting an opinion about Mac zealot behavior on Digital Media Thoughts: two cents.

Reader replies that offer balanced views: two cents.

Mac zealots posting childish replies that prove your point: Priceless.

Mac zealots accusing the Mac Editor of being Windows biased: Infinitely priceless.

:roll:

[klinux]

Seriously, a signature of Mac zealots is that they will bash Mac fans too if they are not zealots!

I love my iBook. I think OS X is the best desktop OS out there today. However, this does not make me dream up the things zealots dream up. Or perhaps my tinfoil hat is blocking Steve Job's Reality Distrotion Field?

And as others have pointed out, reverse engineering may not be illegal. Witness the case of DeCSS.

You keep doing what you are doing Kent!

[mrkablooey]

I love Macs.
Since I installed Linux on my iMac it's been a great computer. :D

&lt;homer> DOH! &lt;/homer>

[James Fee]

I wouldn't put RealPlayer on any computer of mine even if they paid me. Its worse than AOL with all those shortcuts and "special offers". :evil:

[Filip Norrgard]

I wouldn't put RealPlayer on any computer of mine even if they paid me. Its worse than AOL with all those shortcuts and "special offers". :evil:
Egg-actly! :D

[Crocuta]

This is like the second time in a month that Kent, an avowed Mac-enthusiast, has posted something that wasn't fully rah-rah-Mac-is-wonderful-blah-blah and been accused of being a Mac-basher. Frankly, this is getting a little creepy.

I use PCs, I guess just because that's the way it turned out, but I really don't get this defensiveness. Heck, I like Windows, but I criticize MS. I like my PC, but I criticize HP. I like my PPC and again criticize HP. (Hmm, I may have to look into that pattern.) So why do so many Mac users think that everything Apple does, and everything everyone who owns an Apple does, is sacred and beyond criticism?

They're just computers -- boxes full of inorganic electronics that follow predictable patterns. They have no life, no soul, no feelings to be hurt. They're tools. (Fun tools, but tools nonetheless.) Same with the iPod... it's a little box that plays music. You like it? Great buy one. Don't like it? Don't buy one. Like something else? Buy that. Don't like Real? Don't buy their product. But why in the world should we all walk on eggshells around Mac users just because they've somehow gotten their egos all mixed up with their particular choice of plastic box full of electronics?

Last year I took a one-day course at my college where we worked on Macs (OSX). It was pretty, but it took all of about 10 seconds to adapt to the different way of doing things (button locations, a bit more dragging of things, etc.). It was fine, neither generating in me an epiphany of mystical understanding, nor a deep-seated loathing. It was just a computer... did what I asked it to. So what's the big deal? I mean, using this Mac really didn't feel that different from using Windows. They are so much the same now... just use what you like and stop being lunatics about it. :silly:

[Jason Dunn]

Golly, I leave for a week's vacation and all hell breaks loose! :?

Kent is our Mac editor, so if he feels like railing against Apple when they do something he doesn't like, that's his call - I tend to avoid commenting on most of these topics because I know I'm biased against Apple, so I don't pretend that I can see things from the Mac-owners point of view. Since I don't own and haven't used a Mac seriously in years, I also freely admit that I don't have the knowledge to really criticize the OS. I like the nifty hardware though, always have. :-)

Anyway, it's unfortunate to see people leave this site but ultimately if you never want to see criticism of Apple, this is probably not the best site for you. Ditto for criticism of Microsoft, Adobe, Epson, Canon, and pretty much every other company out there - fair criticism is what we do at Thoughts. :wink:

[James Fee]

As I always say, "You can't trust Mac users".... :drinking:

[Felix Torres]

As I always say, "You can't trust Mac users".... :drinking:

I respectfully disagree.
Mac fans can be trusted...
...to be what they've always been.
Outspoken, opinionated, loud, and above all, very, very touchy... :wink:

Those folks are passionate about their tech.
Problem is, passion is an emotion and emotions aren't ruled by the brain and, most of the time, have *nothing* to do with logic.

Hard to debate with somebody who *knows* in the their heart of hearts that they are absolutely positively right and that everybody else is absolutely positively out to "get" them. After a while, charges of prejudice become a knee-jerk reaction, even getting flung at those who are actually *friendly* to their cause.

There was an article a while back in Forbes talking about fad brands and cult brands. *Their* terms, btw.

They did a real good job discussing the psychology of the rabid product promoters. And the pros and cons for the vendors.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0416/072_print.html

[James Fee]

&lt;snip>
I'm a Mac loving, iPod defending, Bill Gates hating, no need for a right mouse button member of the Macintosh Army. ;)

But getting Felix to defend Mac users has to be one of my highlights here at DMT.... :twisted:

[Crocuta]

There was an article a while back in Forbes talking about fad brands and cult brands. *Their* terms, btw.

They did a real good job discussing the psychology of the rabid product promoters. And the pros and cons for the vendors.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0416/072_print.html

Interesting article; thanks for the link. One con they didn't mention is that the perception of the cult members by society in general may put off sales to potential new users who don't want to be associated with the cult fringe. That may limit the potential size of a market.

[Felix Torres]

&lt;snip>
I'm a Mac loving, iPod defending, Bill Gates hating, no need for a right mouse button member of the Macintosh Army. ;)

But getting Felix to defend Mac users has to be one of my highlights here at DMT.... :twisted:

I'm glad to be good for *something* today.
Its a monday and I'm still not on top of my game...

I'm sure I'll get there by friday afternoon... 8)

[Cameron K]

Anyway, it's unfortunate to see people leave this site but ultimately if you never want to see criticism of Apple, this is probably not the best site for you. Ditto for criticism of Microsoft, Adobe, Epson, Canon, and pretty much every other company out there - fair criticism is what we do at Thoughts. :wink:

It wasn't the criticism of Apple that I took offense to. I could go on all day about what I think is wrong with Apple, and I'm an admitted fanboy. It was the accusation that mac users are "impish juveniles...raving zealouts" and later on "idiots".

[Jason Dunn]

It was the accusation that mac users are "impish juveniles...raving zealouts" and later on "idiots".

Well, since Kent is our Mac editor and a Mac user, unless he was calling himself an idiot, he meant SOME Mac users, not all Mac users. I agree it was poorly worded on his part.