Burned By DRM...Ouch!

[Jason Dunn]

Kent had some digital audio woes on Friday, and so did I - my first and only purchases of DRM-equipped music has been from a site called Puretracks (http://www.puretracks.com). Being in Canada, I can't use Napster, iTunes, or any other service other than Puretracks. They sell 192 kbps WMA files, so the quality is great, and the prices are 99 cents Canadian - about 75 cents USD - which is affordable. I've purchased five complete albums and about ten assorted songs, and I happily listen to them on my main computer - digital to digital with the Logitech Z680's (http://www.logitech.com).

However, all is not well in DRM happy land. :roll: When I was upstairs on my wife's computer today doing some work (Outlook 2003 + IMAP rules!) I wanted to listen to the music I had purchased. Should be easy enough right? Not quite - none of the DRM-equipped files wouldn't play on the upstairs computer. WMP9 gave me an error about not being able to acquire the license, the the pop-up error window from Puretracks helpfully suggested that I connect to the Internet first. :roll: There were no other options or manual method for retrieving my licenses. Upon further investigation tonight, with most of my files Puretracks says I can burn them to a CD three times, and transfer the audio to up to three different portable devices...yet there's no mention of listening to the music on other computers. :worried: It never occurred to me that they might have it be one computer only - that would be insane if that's the case. :evil:

I know that DRM differs from music store to music store, but have you ever run into something similar to this situation with your WMA-based music store? I'm waiting for a response from Puretracks, but if they tell me I can only listen to the music on the computer I bought it on, that will be the end of my online music purchasing for a couple of years. I can burn it to a CD and re-rip it, but that's a last resort solution and to me would represent a complete failure of the DRM system.

[Janak Parekh]

This is the fundamental problem I have with WMA stores, and why I won't buy from them -- not only can each store have different rules, but some stores (like Buy's) have different rules for different tracks. Not only that, some have "primary" vs. "secondary" computers, where primary computers can burn, but secondary computers can't. Not exactly user-friendly, if you ask me.

Say what you want about Apple, but I love their rules: up to 5 computers activated (e.g., logged in at any time), unlimited transfers and activations/deactivations, unlimited burns of tracks to CDs (maximum of 7 burns of one playlist, but change it slightly and you can burn it again) and unlimited numbers of portable devices (yeah, I know, so long as they're iPods). That, to me, is the "fairest" DRM around, despite the lack of portable device flexibility... and that's why iTunes is the only place I buy music from. I'm sorry you can't experience it, Jason. :(

--janak

[Cameron K]

Yup, iTunes is the only place I'll buy singles as well.

[Kacey Green]

how are the rules for napster? and what happens if i rebuild my pc, with a new moterboard?

What if I don't change my hardware but I reinstall win xp?
I mean with apple all I have to do is deactivate the machine before the reinstall, what happens if I can't deactiveate on iTunes before the reinstall? :?

[Doug Johnson]

Personally, I always burn a CD so I have a copy I can always resort to. I wouldn't buy a track if I couldn't make a backup.

Hopefully someday the record companies will figure out that we don't want to put up with some of their crazy limitations. How many record company execs would want someone following them around their houses saying, "No, you can't play that CD on that player. You can only play it on this one." Current DRM limitations are just too restrictive.

[Gary Sheynkman]

And than you go and preach about how great these services are when you can get these tracks a) from a store with ALL rights for the same price or you can choose to be a rebel and sticking it to the industry that thinks it can get away with poor service :lol:

[Ed Hansberry]

Just burn and rip. Does anyone here really trust a black box technology like DRM to safeguard your rights? No way! In case of failure, The rights of the record lables will be protected, even if it means you lose your music. There is a reason no one has heard of DRM failing and the songs became un-DRMified.

[Jason Dunn]

Say what you want about Apple, but I love their rules: up to 5 computers activated (e.g., logged in at any time), unlimited transfers and activations/deactivations, unlimited burns of tracks to CDs (maximum of 7 burns of one playlist, but change it slightly and you can burn it again) and unlimited numbers of portable devices (yeah, I know, so long as they're iPods).

No doubt about it, that does sound good!

[Kacey Green]

true with the Microsoft version of DRM if you loose the ability to deauthorize a PC or if you have authorised two many PC just burn and rip back

But with apple if you have 5 PCs authorized and it goes down and you have to re install, you only have 4 activations left, but you do have valid burned copies.

[JTWise]

I have to completely agree with Ed.

Jason, Welcome to the world of Burn & Rip. It is the first thing I do when I buy anything DRM online (although I do it rarely).

[Tim Williamson]

This is one of the reasons why I will NEVER buy and download DRM protected music. All I hear from people is that they have trouble getting their music to play/burn/copy and every music store has different rules for where you can play your music, how many times you can copy it, etc.

In addition, downloaded music is lower quality than CD so you're not getting archive quality material.

[Mike Temporale]

Jason, let us know what PureTracks has to say. I have purchased a couple albums from them as well, and I am very interested in how this turns out.

[Mojo Jojo]

I use Apple. Love it. No issues.

DRM... what do you guys think of Janus (http://news.com.com/2100-1027-1009794.html?tag=nl)from MS? You don't own but you pay a monthly subscription...

[ale_ers]

I thought I had a similar problem with Napster...but it turned out that I just did not read the manual. In Napster there is an option to sync your tunes with another computer...you basically re-download your licenses. Now I am able to listen on my home computer, work computer, flash player (for jogging) and my PPC. That's four devices.

Of course I also back up to CD that I can listen to in the car.

Having said that, I was a little upset that I could not use a song I purchased in a photo story. I had to burn and re-rip.

[PatrickD]

I had the same problem with PureTracks. I wanted to listen to music on my laptop instead of my desktop. The only way was to burn and rip which is a time consuming pain in the *ss. Now once you have ripped the tracks to an unprotected format, you can copy as many times as you like and play them anywhere you choose. You could even “share” these tracks with 5,000 of your closest friends. So what exactly is the point of this DRM licensing, besides making it difficult for honest people to enjoy their music? :? It seems like the recording industry is being lulled into a false sense of security, and honest users are being inconvenienced.

[Janak Parekh]

Just burn and rip. Does anyone here really trust a black box technology like DRM to safeguard your rights?
No, but not only is burn-and-rip a huge hassle, but it reduces audio quality (noticeably to my ears, for what it's worth). I'd much rather just buy CDs and rip them in the first place if that's what I have to do.

--janak

[gibb193a]

I buy my music online from Napster and I do a burn-and-rip procedure without using up a CD to remove the DRM. But I only do this so I can freely transfer my music to my iRiver or my SD card on my PPC. I don't give it away to anyone else. And also to avoid some of the problems that have been said here and elsewhere.

I will continue to buy online because I like being able to buy only the tracks that I really want and not having any more physical CDs to store.

[James Fee]

DRM... what do you guys think of Janus (http://news.com.com/2100-1027-1009794.html?tag=nl)from MS? You don't own but you pay a monthly subscription...
Since none of the record companies are supporting it currently, I don't see it going anywhere. I've seen the number $10/month floated for the subscription. Why would the record companies sign up for that when they can make so much more money with the current system. Triple it and them maybe they would sign up, but the subscription model will only work if the record companies are making at least the same as they are on the "buy model".

[chrisspera]

I use MusicMatch, and its ok.

I've bought entire albums thru them and download and then burn to CD and then rerip the files.

I have no problems listening to content after that. I want a hard copy CD anyway...

[ale_ers]

I buy my music online from Napster and I do a burn-and-rip procedure without using up a CD to remove the DRM. .

How do you do this "without using up a CD"...do you have a program that strips DRM?

But I only do this so I can freely transfer my music to my iRiver or my SD card on my PPC.

Is that so you can copy direct to the SD card w/o having to go through windows media? That would be much quicker than going through the slow process of WMP through a USB 1.1. I have often wanted to just copy right to the SD card slot on the computer...but darn the DRM.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Just burn and rip. Does anyone here really trust a black box technology like DRM to safeguard your rights?
No, but not only is burn-and-rip a huge hassle, but it reduces audio quality (noticeably to my ears, for what it's worth). I'd much rather just buy CDs and rip them in the first place if that's what I have to do.

Buying and ripping CDs is what I do - much simpler & less hassle than DRM. :?

[JR]

Jason, did you ever get a resolution to this? I've been thinking about taking the plunge to online music, but I'm still gun-shy; moreso after your experiences.

[Mike Temporale]

Jason, did you ever get a resolution to this? I've been thinking about taking the plunge to online music, but I'm still gun-shy; moreso after your experiences.

I've been meaning to get back to this post and add some info....

You can back up your licenses and then restore them to another computer. From inside WMP, Select Tools / License Management. And then click Back Up Now. Then on your other machine you can do restore. This should allow you to play those files on both computers. I haven't actually restored on another computer, but this is the recommended approach.

[JR]

Thanks for the update Mike. Is this something that Puretracks provided as a solution? Or is it a workaround that you found yourself?

I ask because I read on the Puretracks Help site that they only support one computer:

IMPORTANT: Once you purchase a music download from Puretracks.com, you are given a license for its use. All Puretracks downloads are encrypted with technology that controls the usage of the song. Each download contains only one license. This license will only be active on the computer to which the song is downloaded. For this reason, it is important that you purchase and download your music using your primary computer. Once you have downloaded a song, you will be able to listen, burn, or transfer from only that computer.

That gets me a little nervous that they may do an about-face and get restrictive.

Really, the more I read about DRM the more I am tempted to stay away. I may have to stick buying CD's for a while. :(

[Mike Temporale]

This is what PureTracks suggested. My brother got a free song with his Big Mac, and download it while at work. The problem is that his machine at work doesn't have a CDR and when he emailed the file home, it wouldn't work. So he emailed them to see what could be done. The reply was to transfer the license. Here's the email he got back (edited to remove my brothers email address - stupid spam). See bold text below.

From: Outbound Account Only [mailto:help (at) puretracks.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:50 PM
To:
Subject: Puretracks License Issues



Thank you for contacting the Puretracks Help Desk

We apologize for the delay in answering your email. The address to which you sent the message is an outbound email address and should have returned a message to notify you.

Our agents are currently investigating your issue and will respond to your help request as soon as possible.

While we are investigating your matter, please see our Frequently Asked Questions for common questions and answers. Here are a few things to consider as well.

- If you are not using Windows Media Player 9 please do so and update if you have an older version.

- If you have previously downloaded the tracks to another computer, this will not work on any other PC than that one. Please follow these steps to be able to transfer the licenses if needed.

- To backup your licenses you have to go to Windows Media Player and click on the tools button at the top. Then select License Management, and point the location to a Floppy disk then click on Backup. If you ever need to restore them for reasons such as having to reinstall Windows or Hardware changes that affect the license management, go to the same location and just click the restore button.

[JR]

Interesting. I assume that both computers can then run the license at the same time? If so, they've kind of provided a way to workaround their security haven't they?

[Mike Temporale]

Interesting. I assume that both computers can then run the license at the same time? If so, they've kind of provided a way to workaround their security haven't they?

Alright, I just attempted to restore the licenses on another computer, and when I click restore I get the following message box:

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/media/users/47/WMP-License-Prompt.jpg

So I guess they are thinking ahead a little more than expected. Oh well, at least you can move your music around.

[JR]

One PC at a time eh? That's no good for me. I would want to be able to keep my music centrally (I'm looking at the Linksys device that allows you to connect a couple of USB drives) and access it from any device in the house.

Still waiting I guess...

[ctmagnus]

I'm looking at the Linksys device that allows you to connect a couple of USB drives

The one that requires the drives to be formatted with the EXT3 filesystem?

[JR]

I'm looking at the Linksys device that allows you to connect a couple of USB drives

The one that requires the drives to be formatted with the EXT3 filesystem?

Maybe, I'm not sure actually. It's something I'd heard about in passing. The jist was that I could connect two USB drives to the device and it would be sort of like a NAS I think.

I've got a couple of USB drives that I can get hold of (120GB and 40 GB) so I thought it would be ideal. I haven't looked into it in any detail though.

[ctmagnus]

The Linksys NAS page (http://www.linksys.com/products/group.asp?grid=35&scid=43). The NSLU2 is the only unit that accepts external drives.

Tom's Hardware pages on the unit: Part 1 (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article85.php), Part 2 (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article86.php), Part 3 (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article88.php)

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, did you ever get a resolution to this? I've been thinking about taking the plunge to online music, but I'm still gun-shy; moreso after your experiences.

No, Puretracks sucks. I'll write up something about it on the front page to explain why...

[ctmagnus]

Has the situation improved any in the last three months? I just got a $10 coupon from Telus in my inbox and I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle.

[Jason Dunn]

Has the situation improved any in the last three months? I just got a $10 coupon from Telus in my inbox and I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle.

Well, use it and burn them to CD then re-rip them right away - crappy solution, but it works.