Has music gone down the tubes?

[Gary Sheynkman]

Has the art of music become a form of mindless entertainment???

Am I the only one that says that unless there is a REAL (no computer generated) instrument involved that its not really music anymore?

[Cameron K]

So you're saying that this summer when I cut my album, that I shouldn't be allowed to use MIDI for backup? I'm sorry, but some of us either can't afford to hire in a band to sit in a studio for god only knows how long, or we just don't want to. Even if I had the money to hire a bassist, I'd honestly choose a computer generated bass over a real one 9/10 times because I like the control that I have over the computer generated one. And with the right synths, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two. But none of my logic matters because afterall, I'm just a clown generating mindless entertainment. Right Gary?

[Bob12]

I don't care how it's generated, if it's rhythmic, it's music. And it doesn't matter if I like it or not. Like so many other things, people have many different tastes in music - that's why there are so many different styles and methods. I like Tangerine Dream, Enya, and Mannheim Steamroller, all of whom make extensive use of electronics as well as Glenn Miller, Alison Krauss & Union Station, and Bruce Springsteen, who make (made) little or no use of electronics. To me, saying it's not music if it doesn't use "real" instruments is like saying it's not photography if you don't use film.

[Crocuta]

To me, saying it's not music if it doesn't use "real" instruments is like saying it's not photography if you don't use film.

Great analogy. And you'll still see that opinion expressed vehemently on some photography newsgroups/forums. I don't buy it for photography or for music.

To me, it's not a matter of what instrument (digital or analog... even a computer) you played to create the music, it's a matter of the music itself. Even so, there is a difference between music performed by a musician and music programmed into a computer. Sure, you may not be able to tell the difference for a single phrase or in a subtle background track, but live performers bring more to their music than technical perfection. Part of the music experience is in how a group of musicians combine to create an experience that is greater than the sum of its parts, not just by playing notes that fit together, but by each contributing their own personality to the work.

If I were in Cameron's shoes, I'd do exactly what he's doing. Using the computer for background doesn't invalidate his music. But I'd also be itching for the day when I could afford to hire live musicians instead of doing it all in my computer.

To me, the bigger problem with today's music is just that there's so little originality. I find lots of current popular music to be mind-numbingly formulaic. It's often pleasant enough to have playing in the background, but it does nothing to inspire or move me. It's certainly nothing that would send me out in search of CDs to buy.

That said, if you look past the charts, there are a lot of talented musicians out there with very compelling music. You just have to work a little harder to find them. Plenty are with labels, but just aren't chart-toppers, and plenty are out there doing it on their own. I would love to see the Net one day become the great equalizer for musicians, so that I can pay the musician directly for making music that I enjoy. Then people could decide for themselves who is worth listening to, instead of having music company executives do it for them.

[Gary Sheynkman]

So you're saying that this summer when I cut my album, that I shouldn't be allowed to use MIDI for backup? I'm sorry, but some of us either can't afford to hire in a band to sit in a studio for god only knows how long, or we just don't want to. Even if I had the money to hire a bassist, I'd honestly choose a computer generated bass over a real one 9/10 times because I like the control that I have over the computer generated one. And with the right synths, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two. But none of my logic matters because afterall, I'm just a clown generating mindless entertainment. Right Gary?

I think you misread my post... I was talking about mainstreat music (not underground techno) that was not using ANY instruments. (ie teen idol pop stars that have floded the market) Sorry if I was not clear enough...

PS: You dont have to bite back at me because of my comments, you are not a clown but sarcasm is the first step to getting there

[Cameron K]

Gary, you said "Am I the only one that says that unless there is a REAL (no computer generated) instrument involved that its not really music anymore?" Nowhere in that statement did you limit the range of genres that you were talking about. True you said "pop, techno, and rap" in a poll choice, but the above statement led me to think that you were stating that in all genres this was true. And to me, my mac is an instrument. It allows me to not only create music, but take that music and transform it into something even greater through the addition of those extra touches that really draw a listener into my work. As for getting on the defensive, if you re-read your post from my point of view, you came off as someone who had no respect for work that you do. I know that's not what you meant by posting this article, but with music...it's such an emotional thing and you become tied to it. To hear someone who knows little about the subject simply say "what you do isn't music" (I now know that's not what you meant by your comments, but I'm trying to explain my reasoning), it tends to rub you the wrong way.

[Jason Dunn]

Let's just agree to disagree on this one - Gary has some strong opinions about what constitutes "music", and even if we don't share them, we won't convince him otherwise. ;-)

[Gary Sheynkman]

doesnt mean you cant try :wink:

this is my first "near flame war" post.

Lets put it this way:

Let us not get fired up over my terribly written post.....

Maybe I should stop posting at 11pm....that might be the reason for some quick incoherent blurbs that I produce :wink: