Best Pay for Download site?

[possmann]

Any one have any recommendations on what works well for them?

the new napster? walmart? others???

I'd like to get some tunes but don't want to get locked into any contract or hefty monthly paying plan.

[Russell]

Any one have any recommendations on what works well for them?

the new napster? walmart? others???

I'd like to get some tunes but don't want to get locked into any contract or hefty monthly paying plan.

iTunes has likely the most clout, and they are screaming with selection. I checked out Napster, and I didn't like the interface much. But, with iTunes, I believe you can only copy the songs a limited number of times. I believe this article gets into some detail.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2004/01/26.html#a6361

This is the Gizmodo post that gives the quick and dirty version.
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/robert_scoble_on_why_you_shouldt_buy_an_ipod.php

[Janak Parekh]

But, with iTunes, I believe you can only copy the songs a limited number of times.
Incorrect. iTMS songs are amongst the most flexible. You can copy them around an unlimited number of times, and there are no licenses to move/backup -- the only limitation is that you can be "logged into" at most three desktops at a time to play back music, and you can change that at any time (handheld-wise, you can use an unlimited number of iPods). You can also burn songs onto a CD an unlimited number of times, although a "single playlist" may be only burned 10 times. To get around that, start a new playlist or change that single playlist.

In fact, in general I prefer Apple's DRM -- it's the same amongst all songs you can buy. WMA, on the other hand, differs on the vendor. I don't know about all of the vendors, but BuyMusic is really bad -- different songs have different rules about the number of times you can burn them to CDs, how many times you can copy them to other computers, etc.

The main reason you wouldn't buy from iTMS is because it only supports the AAC format, which only works with Windows, Macs, and the iPod. WMA has broader choice. This sucks, because I really prefer iTMS overall and Apple's FairPlay. I've bought a few songs off of iTMS for my iPod, but am refraining from buying full albums. On the other hand, WMA doesn't support Macs or the iPod. Sigh. :|

--janak

[Gary Sheynkman]

But, with iTunes, I believe you can only copy the songs a limited number of times.
On the other hand, WMA doesn't support Macs or the iPod. Sigh. :|

--janak

dont you mean "WMA is not supported by macs or the ipod"?

not like its bill's fault

[Janak Parekh]

not like its bill's fault
On the iPod, maybe not. Not so sure about the Mac. Does Microsoft license WMA for other desktop platforms? If so, it won't come cheap -- so you'll almost definitely never see WMA on Linux unless they can reuse MS's DLL, and similarly not on MacOS.

--janak

[Gary Sheynkman]

I dont understand....there are plenty of media jukeboxes that support wma (winamp...etc etc)..why cant someone compile one for macs? :roll:

im confused

Save us Jebus..err Janak

[Suhit Gupta]

I dont understand....there are plenty of media jukeboxes that support wma (winamp...etc etc)..why cant someone compile one for macs? :roll:

im confused

Save us Jebus..err Janak

Oh if only it were that easy. Unfortunately, it is not like one can just take the code for windows and recompile it for a mac. It involves a great deal of code rewrite. The decoders are different on different operating systems and the system calls to be made are usually very different. There are a lot of very bright people working on software like this, if it was as easy as recompiling, then it would have been done already :). But you are right, it would be nice to see more cross platform jukeboxes.

Suhit

[Janak Parekh]

In addition to what Suhit says, licenses dictate terms as to what you can and cannot do with code. Without getting a license for a WMA decoder, if you take MS's existing one and decompile it and recompile it for another platform, you'll likely get a letter in your mail from MS's lawyers...

--janak

[possmann]

Ahem...

Getting back on topic - has anyone tried Walmart's download site? I hear they are only 88 cents a song which beats anyone else I know out there...

[Janak Parekh]

Getting back on topic - has anyone tried Walmart's download site? I hear they are only 88 cents a song which beats anyone else I know out there...
I haven't tried it, but at cursory glance, I wasn't very impressed with their interface. Both Napster's and iTunes's dedicated clients are nice to have. My other concern with Wal-Mart is that they censor their music. Most, if not all "explicit" albums sold at Wal-Mart are actually the radio-edited versions.

If neither bother you, I haven't heard anything else specifically negative about the service.

--janak

[possmann]

Thats good to know Janek... thanks

So what would your recommendation be if I was looking for a download site that allows me to download in WMA and/or MP3 formats?

I have an older MP3 player that will play both WMA and MP3, but I don't think much else - aka I think the iTunes site would be out of consideration for me.

[Janak Parekh]

So what would your recommendation be if I was looking for a download site that allows me to download in WMA and/or MP3 formats?
No download sites will let you download major labels' music in MP3 format. The only formats practically available are WMA and AAC. WMA is available from a number of sites, including BuyMusic, Wal-Mart, Napster, and MusicMatch. Real also has a store, supporting their own version of AAC. Of the four WMA sites I know, I think Napster has probably gotten the best ratings.

I have an older MP3 player that will play both WMA and MP3, but I don't think much else - aka I think the iTunes site would be out of consideration for me.
I think the WMA downloads from those sites will work, but make sure to buy just one song first and test if it works. The iTMS (iTunes Music Store) would only be a consideration if you have an iPod, as that's the only device that supports Apple's AAC format.

--janak

[possmann]

Thanks a lot Janek!

[marlof]

The iTMS (iTunes Music Store) would only be a consideration if you have an iPod, as that's the only device that supports Apple's AAC format.

Or, if you're lucky enough like me, and you have been to so many rock concerts that your hearing is not what it used to be, you can burn an audio CD from the AAC format, and rerip that in the format you'd like. You'll loose quality, but the songs I've heard that went that route still sounded good enough to me. Not home stereo good, but definitely MP3 player good.

[Kati Compton]

Thanks a lot Janek!
FYI - it's "Janak". ;)

No 'e's

[Janak Parekh]

Or, if you're lucky enough like me, and you have been to so many rock concerts that your hearing is not what it used to be, you can burn an audio CD from the AAC format, and rerip that in the format you'd like. You'll loose quality, but the songs I've heard that went that route still sounded good enough to me. Not home stereo good, but definitely MP3 player good.
Ah, good point. I keep on forgetting that because I find it rather inconvenient. Especially compared to iTunes's auto-sync. ;)

(Thanks Kati.)

--janak

[possmann]

Can anyone give an opinion about MusicMatch?

You know... what would be cool would be a review on several of the legal music downloading sites...

cost per download, quality of download - file types and bit rates, music selection, usage rights (transferring tunes to different devices/CD's)

Anyone up for it? :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

Can anyone give an opinion about MusicMatch?
Never have used MusicMatch's store, but I wouldn't personally touch it -- I find the overall jukebox's interface utterly confusing. :|

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

You know... what would be cool would be a review on several of the legal music downloading sites...cost per download, quality of download - file types and bit rates, music selection, usage rights (transferring tunes to different devices/CD's) Anyone up for it? :lol:

Once we get the review team fired up, sure, I'll see what we can do. :D

[Gary Sheynkman]

You know... what would be cool would be a review on several of the legal music downloading sites...cost per download, quality of download - file types and bit rates, music selection, usage rights (transferring tunes to different devices/CD's) Anyone up for it? :lol:

Once we get the review team fired up, sure, I'll see what we can do. :D

I can do a test of: limewire.....kazaa....edonkey....bittorrent....morpheus....etc etc etc

:lol:

I am yet to find a good reason for online stores (ill never give up). If I want an album...i will buy it in the original encoded 1024 bits thank you.

[Jason Dunn]

If anyone in Canada is reading this thread, www.puretracks.com is pretty cool - my first experience with them sucked, but I placed an order yesterday and the whole process was completely smooth. :way to go: Nice, fat 160 kbps WMA files, and the DRM is seamless. Worked really well.

[Mike Temporale]

If anyone in Canada is reading this thread, www.puretracks.com is pretty cool

I hear they are selling pre-paid cards. You can pick them up at various retailers. Very smart idea.

[ale_ers]

I was very excited to find this thread as I have been using a lot of the download services recently trying to find my way. Here are a few of my personal opinions:

First of all, I (probably like most people) did a lot of downloading during the hay days of Napster then Kazaa. I knew what I was doing was wrong even though I still bought a lot of CDs, there were many times I downloaded songs with no intention of buying the CD…evidenced by the frantic downloading I (as well as the rest of the world) did on the last days of Napster. My rational at the time was that there was no way to legally download one song. I also ranted about how they forced us to buy a CD with only one or two songs on it and then made it difficult for us to convert the music into a digital format to play on our PC’s, MP3 players, and handhelds. Well now that my objections are moot it is time to literally, “Put my money where my mouth is.”

There are still people who are happy with the peer-to-peer services, and that is fine. I’m not one to cast moral stones, as I said before I was an avid “thief” myself. However, the new services, as a whole, offer many advantages. I can’t tell you how many times I downloaded a song off a file share network that was of terrible quality or worse, not the song it said it was. Usually I had to download two or three files just to get one that worked. Then there was the problem of all of the spyware that you agreed to put on your machine when you used one of these programs. If you switched to one of the spyware free versions (such as Kazaa Lite or Lime Wire Pro) there is still the potential of downloading malicious programs unintentionally (MyDoom was traced to Kazaa). Then there is the whole piracy dilemma with the threat of Law suits from the RIAA (which is discouraging people from sharing songs and over time could make it more difficult to find the songs you want). I also touched on the moral issues, such as, how can we keep expecting to get new music if no one pays for it.

There are also unseen advantages to these new services, such as the ability to listen to a song before you buy it. Yes, much of the time it is only the 30 second clip, but that is better than Amazon where there is usually only a 30 sec. clip of only the first 3 songs on a CD. Popularity rankings and built in charts are another advantage. I often find myself hearing a band and looking them up on the new Napster to see what the most downloaded songs by them are. Finally, many of these services offer us ease of use and integration. In the case of Music Match and Real Players store, you can use the same program you use as your jukebox to organize, burn, and buy songs without having to learn new interfaces.

Sorry about the lengthy post, consider it my audition to review these services. I currently use Napster and Music Match, but plan on trying a few others before settling on one, if I ever settle on one. Like most things each one has advantages and disadvantages, and things important to me might not be important to you (for example I would rather listen to songs on an MP3 player and computer, as well on a CD in my car…making iTunes a little cumbersome to convert). If this post seemed boring or a bit of a rant…feel free to skip over things written by me when I post more about these services. All in all, I am excited about this site where it gives us a chance to talk about digital content, something I found myself doing on the other Thoughts sites, even if I was ‘off topic.’

[gibb193a]

I heard a rumor that Microsoft is planning on getting into the music download business. What have you guys heard?

[Suhit Gupta]

Google doesn't return any results. Where did you hear about this? It would make sense of course since iTunes is doing so well. It could be integrated into MSN, i.e. the entertainment division.

Suhit

[Gary Sheynkman]

Google doesn't return any results. Where did you hear about this? It would make sense of course since iTunes is doing so well. It could be integrated into MSN, i.e. the entertainment division.

Suhit

plus with the upcoming Media2Go devices, MSFT will probably have a video vault also!

[possmann]

actually I would be surprised if MS would persue this... Perhaps a service of MSN? My assumption is that they are more likely to partner with someone rather than take on the hosting and servicing themselves...

I'm going to start to use Napster to download some tunes - how do you like MusicMatch? Are you able to download and move the music files around - transfer them to your mp3 player as you desire? or are you limited?

[Janak Parekh]

I heard a rumor that Microsoft is planning on getting into the music download business. What have you guys heard?
Yes, this circulated the news about two months ago. My guess is WMP10 will have a built-in music store, a la iTunes. ;)

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

However, the new services, as a whole, offer many advantages. I can’t tell you how many times I downloaded a song off a file share network that was of terrible quality or worse, not the song it said it was.
Fortunately, I never used Napster or KaZaA, but this is precisely what I heard. I finally weaned my sister off of KaZaA, and set her up with iTunes with a $30 gift certificate. Her first comment was that it's so easy to find music, the download works the first time, and that it's just so convenient. All she wants to do is to find a few singles here and there, and iTunes is perfect for this purpose. I'm also glad that she's not downloading unauthorized music. Don't get me wrong, I dislike the RIAA strongly, but that's no excuse to go flaunting copyright law. ;)

--janak

[possmann]

How do you convert iTunes format to WMA or MP3 format - or can you?
Do you loose quality in the conversion?

[James Fee]

How do you convert iTunes format to WMA or MP3 format - or can you?
Do you loose quality in the conversion?
Burn the music to a CD and re rip it into WMA or MP3.

I would assume the quality would go down somewhat, but if you don't have a iPod and want to use iTunes, its the only way.

[Gary Sheynkman]

How do you convert iTunes format to WMA or MP3 format - or can you?
Do you loose quality in the conversion?

Sadly apple makes you sacrifice music quality twice!

1) when you buy the 128kb encoded AAC music
2) when you want to have the same song in a different format


cageyjames is absolutely right, until some talented eastern european/asian hacker finds a way to go around apple's protection, you are stuck with a loooong process
:wink:

[ale_ers]

That is one of the reasons I like the non Apple stores (napster, Music Match), because I am able to transfer a song to my pocket pc, to my MP3 player and burn a disk. All without haveing to burn and re-rip.

Well that and the fact that I don't have an iPod.

[possmann]

so how do you guys like Music Match? Isn't that a Dell company/partnership?

[Janak Parekh]

That is one of the reasons I like the non Apple stores (napster, Music Match), because I am able to transfer a song to my pocket pc, to my MP3 player and burn a disk. All without haveing to burn and re-rip.
To be more precise, you can do that because your Pocket PC and your portable players are WMA players. If you had an iPod, the hassle is gone -- iTunes autosync'ing makes it riduclously easy to transfer purchased music over (one click!)

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

so how do you guys like Music Match? Isn't that a Dell company/partnership?
Dell has partnered with MusicMatch, for their Dell DJ, but MusicMatch has their own service. I personally have never tried the service because I was turned off by (in my opinion) the absolutely terrible UI of Jukebox. iTunes (or even WMP9) runs circles around MusicMatch Jukebox, IMO.

--janak

[ale_ers]

I personally have never tried the service because I was turned off by (in my opinion) the absolutely terrible UI of Jukebox. iTunes (or even WMP9) runs circles around MusicMatch Jukebox, IMO.

--janak

I have to say, I can't decided if I like MusicMatch either...I think it has some nice features and the new version 8.2 interface is great (IMO). But, WMP9 has a lot too, and it is free. Not to mention it has a lot of features that work well with my Windows Media Center (if you use it a lot and rank the songs it will put together some really neat play lists).

So I find myself using Music Match just enough to justify paying for it...

I will say that integrating thier store into the play is great. There is nothing better than listening to a song and worndering...does this artist have anything new...click, click, buy, listen.

[Zack Mahdavi]

iTunes is awesome... excellent jukebox program. Also, the iTunes Music Store is excellent, especially if you have an iPod. I've purchased upwards of 60 songs in the past year from the iTunes Music Store.

The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that I can't play the songs I buy on my Pocket PC. Hopefully this will change one day when Apple licenses its FairPlay DRM.

I read a couple posts saying you can't play WMA on a Mac. That's completely untrue... Windows Media Player 9 is available for the Mac and works just fine. However, iTunes and the iPod will not play WMAs.

Well, those are my thoughts... :)

[ale2999]

this is a question to the canadians: If you like a song or 2 only would you buy or download? remember that it is legal to download music in canada

[ale_ers]

To be more precise, you can do that because your Pocket PC and your portable players are WMA players. If you had an iPod, the hassle is gone -- iTunes autosync'ing makes it riduclously easy to transfer purchased music over (one click!)

--janak[/quote]

That is why I said, "Well that and the fact that I don't have an iPod." in the post.

There is much to be said of the great form factor of the ipod, but I think many look over it's ease of use. I personally want a flash player that is this easy (because I would use it jogging).

[Gary Sheynkman]

Maybe that is the point-- to slowly engulf you into the Apple way of life starting with the iPod experience onward

[cscullion]

OK, here's one vote for FOR Musicmatch Jukebox. Like iTunes, purchasing songs is trivially easy, and syncing to the Dell Digital Jukebox is very simple. I like the list of related artists, and I'm conidering signing up for the "CD-quality" radio feature. I've been using the free preview nad find it very nice.

I found one odd thing, but it's not unique to MM. As an example, I wanted to download Simon and Garfunkel's "Sounds of Silence" album. The MM service did not offer the entire album, but you could download each song individually... EXCEPT for the title track, which was not available at all. I had to go to iTunes to get that one song, and then the hassle of getting it onto my Dell... argh!

[ale_ers]

OK, here's one vote for FOR Musicmatch Jukebox.

I've used Music Match a bit too. It has some songs that are not available on Napster and vise versa. The only thing that bugged me about it, was that I could not use Windows media player to transfer songs boght on MM to my flash player or my pocket pc. I had to transfer my song list (with out the MM songs) then open MM and transfer the others. Stange, you would think that since they are both WMA they would handle each others files.

[encece]

I ripped all of my CDs to WMA. So I needed a service that was compatible. I originally chose Napster because I did own a napster MP3 player at one point. (nice little device...I just didnt need it).

But I have stayed with napster. It has served me well and there has been harly a song that I wanted that I couldnt find.