Who is Afraid of the iPhone?

[Jerry Raia]

No one should be, certainly no one making Standard (formally known as Smartphones) and Professional (formally known as Pocket PCs) devices. I have not actually seen an iPhone in person yet but I have watched the guided tour video (http://www.apple.com/iphone/usingiphone/guidedtour.html) that Apple made. There is no arguing that it is the slickest user interface I have ever seen, and I was very impressed with the intuitive design and the thought that went into the interface; in that regard the iPhone is a masterpiece. Beyond that though, it is no more sophisticated than a pink RAZR. I can at least change the battery on a RAZR. For a phone that is selling on ebay for as much as $2500 (and even higher), I ought to be able to put in a spare battery. I know, 8GB for music storage but let’s get real, do we really need an 8GB iPod with a RAZR strapped on? The dependence on iTunes also bothers me. This is a program that barely works on Vista at this time. Even worse, you are stuck with a specific data plan that costs more than most. Threads on this board talk of dismal performance with regard to speed. Connect to an Exchange Server? Forget it (unless POP is good enough). I have read that Exchange support is coming, I’d have to wait and see what kind and how well it works before I would go running to the store. Another thing, what about applications? I’d love to know the last Java applet you loved using. One thumb up for what is clearly an incredible user interface. One thumb down for everything else about the iPhone.

[hotdram]

Here is a quote from Palm's CEO and president, Ed Colligan:
"I've never seen the kind of feeding frenzy we've seen in the media," Colligan said. "We expect it to be a very successful product - but I don't know how it can possibly live up to the hype."


Here is a quote from RIM's co-CEO, Jim Balsillie:
"I think they did a great favor because they drove attention to the converged appliance space," Balsillie said. "IPhone is launching in one carrier in one country. We're in about 100 countries and have 300 carriers. To the extent that there's interest there, there is another 109 countries that are interested in these kinds of things."


Pretty well sums it up.

~Rob

[pgb55]

I bought the Phillips Nino in 1995, thus beginning a 12 year non-stop relationship with Microsoft OS handheld devices. The Nino was replaced with the first color unit from HP. And then the first iPaq, the jackets, a wireless air card from Go America, later Smartphones....and the list goes on.
I bought an iphone Friday. Today, I have a difficult time imagining going back to a Microsoft OS device (at least given the track record for small incremental innovation from handset makers).
The iphone is a quantum leap forward for mobile phone and computing. It will redefine the market. Use it and you'll understand. To compare it to the Razr is just silly, especially for a community that appreciates the use of a mobile for more than just phone calls.
Apple dominates the mobile music device market because it figured out how to slam dunk the 2 biggest issues with original MP3 players (battery and storage) and do it with an ultra cool form factor.
The defining criteria in the mobile phone/computing market is far less definitive, especially given the diversity in type and importance of usage to customers.
That said, Apple seems to have bet on phone/text-email/music/web browsing/photos to have the greatest importance to customers and created a device that dramatically moves those experiences forward. And again, via an ultra cool device.
Comparatively, Microsoft's partners don't seem able or willing to bring the same type of user experience gain or break through device to market. And for Microsoft itself, with all the money and more needed to appropriately measure consumer demand and design, build, market sell a music device, the Zune should be an embarassment.
As a tech junkie, I'm anxious for MS/Samsung/LG/Motorola etc. to try to catch Apple. Ultimately, my loyality is to how much fun I can have with the device.

[alese]

I pretta much agree. I love the interface, and Microsoft should really use some of it's ideas in WM7, but for the rest it's not all that special.

One more thing - about Java application - try Opera Mini Beta4 - you'll get a lot of iPhone's Safari, for free on your WM device...

[Kris Kumar]

From a consumer standpoint, Apple is right on the money. It should not be compared with a RAZR. Apple has got all the ingredients right from a consumer standpoint. Instead of a do-it-all flexible extensible device, they aimed at what the consumer on the street want. They seem to have got it right. Except for (some may argue) the price; but Apple is traditionally known for high price, some may call it there is value for money.

Anyway, Apple packaged the right set of features, there is no feature bloat. They did tie to itunes, which I don't like but they have to ensure that their new device continues the music business supremacy, so forcing users to register via iTunes is kinda sneaky.

Having played with the iPhone recently, I can say that the browser is light years ahead of any mobile device I have played with. I am sure it even can give the UMPCs a tough fight. Also the music player (I am not a big fan of it). More of my thoughts, over here. (http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=89756#89756)

Microsoft, BlackBerry, LG, Moto should be really afraid. I am not adding Nokia because they have a huge global market, and already have a big chunk of the market.

[Jerry Raia]

The RAZR reference really wasn't meant to be a comparison per se. It was a subtle reference to the fact that other than the UI, the phone really doesn't offer much more than a common cell phone.

[Stinger]

I think that Apple have shot themselves in the foot with all of the hype. Here's some of their claims:

"The iPhone is five years ahead of the competition."

On a few points, it's ahead. On other points, it's way behind. Some of the missing features are a joke - no 3G, no MMS, no music ringtones, no video recording, no GPS and no 3rd party applications. What's the point of such an advanced OS if it doesn't support even the most basic of smartphone features?

"The iPhone has the longest battery life of any smartphone."

It's nice how they compared it against some of the poorest smartphones in terms of battery life. 8 hours is pretty good, but smartphones like the Nokia E61 can manage 9.5 hours. Either Apple didn't do their research or they're trying to deceive.

"We didn't include 3G because of its affect on battery life and device size."

Absolute rubbish. If the Samsung Blackjack can include 3G then it obviously has very little effect on device size. And if you're concerned about battery life, virtually all 3G phones I know allow you to drop into 2G mode at will. Apple didn't include 3G because writing a 3G telephony stack is a time consuming and complicated business.


I haven't used one but the reports say that it's an impressive device. However, it could never live up to the unreasonable hype that Apple (and the media) have created for it. Personally, I'm happy with my HSDPA-based HTC Hermes and Nokia N95. Incidentally, pretty much all of the iPhone's web apps will run on the N95's web browser. :)

Having said that, if they dropped the phone modem and put in a 80GB+ HDD, I'd love to buy one. Watching video on that screen must be great.

[socrates]

As it shipped, the iphone is a very expensive toy. Nothing more.

NO IM
NO A2DP
NO App support (which means no to thousands of other features)
NO VOIP clients
NO Navigation software
Crappy Keyboard
Crapp email support
No customizing the ringtones of all things
etc etc etc

The problem for Windows Mobile and other smartphone maker is what is possible for Apple to do with software updates. This thing has a HUGE amount of storage in it. It already has a 700 MB OS in it.

The total crippling of this thing out of the box on June 29th is all about software. They could release an update that simply adds all the things it doesn't have and poof just like that it COULD compete with WM and Symbian and etc. The only thing they can't fix in software is not having a real keyboard and even bigger 3G, but that will only affect certain segments of users.

So HOPEFULLY MS and HTC are taking this seriously. I WANT a cool interface on my phone like the iPhone. But I NEED it to have the features and apps my WinMo has in it already (including a real button slide out keyboard). Whoever puts that all together first is going to have the biggest selling phone probably of all time.

I kind of hope the iPhone will sell huge numbers and it will cause MS and HTC to feel the heat and see what they need to do in terms of design and interface.

[Rocco Augusto]

The problem for Windows Mobile and other smartphone maker is what is possible for Apple to do with software updates.

As of Windows Mobile 6, Microsoft is now able to provide software updates via the Windows Update software

This thing has a HUGE amount of storage in it. It already has a 700 MB OS in it.

I think that 700MB OS is going to be the downfall of the iPhone. Sure it was pretty to look at when I got to play with it on launch day, but the OS was buggy and slow (compared to the video commercials) and the device was hard to type with. All of those problems are minor problems though, the big problem will be that gigantic OS which I'm sure will have a ton of holes for people to exploit.

There is no reason, whatsoever, to have an operating system on a phone that is almost as large as operating systems on computers a few years ago. Even with its gigantic OS, the iPhone only offers beauty to consumers and still misses out on a TON of user features such as IM, MMS, GPS, so on and so on. Sure, eventually the Meebo guys might get their IM software working through the browser (if it isn't already), but is it really an "application" if you have to use your browser to run it?

All in all, I'm highly disappointed by Apple. I expected a lot more from them as they have some incredibly talented software developers at their disposal. There is no reason why they had to lock off the operating system.

Now if only Microsoft would get on the ball and offer us something like the HTC Touch, but with better hardware and an even nicer UI :)

[socrates]

Oh, hey, I agree, it's bloated. But that wasn't my point. My point is they can add any feature they want. They have the space.

[Kris Kumar]

The total crippling of this thing out of the box on June 29th is all about software. They could release an update that simply adds all the things it doesn't have and poof just like that it COULD compete with WM and Symbian and etc.

I agree that just for that reason Microsoft should take Apple seriously. They can add Exchange ActiveSync support. They can add Bluetooth profile for A2DP and for hooking up to a GPS sensor. Though integrating the GPS sensor with the browser based Google Maps will be tricky.

[Kris Kumar]

.. that gigantic OS which I'm sure will have a ton of holes for people to exploit.

I am sure it has holes, so does Safari browser. If the OS is the same as the desktop like Apple claims then it will be easily to write exploits. Otherwise Apple's idea of keeping developers out and not providing developer kits and not having BT file sync profile etc makes the phone pretty secure. The key thing is that it is not an open-welcome platform like Microsoft, BB, Symbian and Palm; out of which Microsoft and Symbian are probably the most open ones.

[edgar]

I have an 8Gb iphone - of course, Im a gadget freak. The interface is simply amazing, parts are slow, some are t0o many taps - both will be addressed Im sure.

My brother "had to have one" and gave me a 8Gb because he is visiting for two weeks unannounced with his fiancee - "least I could do bro for imposing".

The SIM card is easily accessible from the top - havent tried another sim in it yet to see what happens. Covered in HowardForums extensively - I can take my Iphone one and put it in my Blackjack anytime and be supported even with data. Within a mm its about same size of BJ - a bit heavier though. Battery life, seems ok and I used wifi extensively. Cant find an office I cant walk into and find a apple ipod charger.

$20 unlimited data - 'nuff said. Works well enough for EDGE - 50% of the time I am in edge territory anyways - and iIlive in San Francisco which is pretty heavily covered in 3g

The Keyboard after 2 days is pretty damn good actually, Im happily suprise. The predictive text is far superior to my Blackjack

Safari vs Pie - Pie is crap, nuff said.
Safari vs Opera Mini - still superior. Most pages work great and are easily read (and zoomed). And, java/Flash support is already in the works. flipping to landscape just rocks too

YouTube, my gosh I was very surprised on how well this worked on Edge, if you give it a 30sec headstart it didnt force a pause for me on a 3min video. I tried this a dozen times, in different places.

MMS, yes, this one ticks me off, but again, thats just a software update. It's coming

Slow (well not really as bad as a blackjack with 5 things open), ok, so they'll tune it - they have 1M testers now. OS size - who cares, there's space to spare, a strong enough Proc and again, they'll tune it, they are good at doing that vs MS.

This is SO far ahead of what WinMo was in its first iteration. Im opening word/excel PDF now, clearly on a 3.5" screen - I am interfacing with many apps that today Winmo cant. My L2TP and PPTP VPNs both work fine as well.

Mail is better, not sure who said it was worse. Full IMAP/POP support with full HTML as well, clean laid out normal mails (such as the Winmo HTML newsletter came up perfect).

I can carry this and not both my blackjack and Ipod. I use an ipod in my car, and at work - I dont have to now.

BT in car. It supports my BMW, my blackjack didn't.

My complaints. cant unlock yet, I stress yet. The US laws are changing and I suspect they will have no choice.

Price - well, why subsidize if it sells out without one? Also, that is more a USA model of GSM phone purchasing then Europe. In Europe you buy the phone at retail price if you want the cool factor.

3rd party apps, bah people will flock to get apple cerified apps avail - they'll sell them on Itunes

Itunes dependency - sure its propritary - and works better than Active Synch (so far)

Updates - Apple has always been agressive about updating, I suspect this will get plenty of upgrades/fixes. I also suspect by theis time next year Gen2 Iphone will already be out and still ahead of Winmo

So, I'll continue to use both and decide for my work/play which I find better. I am in the mobile industry as an operator, I play with all the latest handsets (All but Nokia, incl RIM). This is a really cool device.

[edgar]

GPS

How are they fitting to E911 laws? Just using LBS from the cell towers? Never looked in to that.

[JohnJohn]

Ok Guys I have one and I really like it. Maybe this is a fad for me, wouldn't be the first time. I bought my first Apple Computer 90 days ago, and now I have two & and an iPhone.

This replaced my BlackJack. I should say that since I got my Blackberry 8800 I have only been using my BJ for phone features. My business is on Exchange and I love the interface between Exchange/BES/BB8800. I won't be replacing my 8800 with the iPhone. Exchange via IMAP is not enough.

As far as my "iPhonethoughts". I really think this was a very, very smart move on Apples part. I'm not talking about marketing BS and all this hype, although it has worked out well. I am talking about lack of third party software. I think it's brilliant! After running everything, and I mean everything from a PalmPilot to a BlackJack I must say that the third part apps are what has ruined every single device for me. I would get a new PocketPC/SmartPhone, run home and load PInformant, Resco and a ton of others to get the device useable. Then after a week or so when the newness wears off it was too slow, or hard reset prone, etc. I don't mean to say that this device won't be that way, but at least not at first.

So Apple releases the iPhone, everyone with a RAZR runs out and gets one, from 7th graders to Grandma's. A few weeks or months pass by during which all the un-techy folks learn how to use this thing, start asking what's POP email and so on. Then Apple lets loose the licensing of third party apps. After your in love with it the buggy software comes out. No one blames Apple when the device starts crashing.

There truly is huge potential here. Yes there are quite a few things I wish I had on my iPhone.

- true MS Exchange
- Quicktime recorder via the camera
- iTunes store via the iPhone
- IM
- weekly calendar view
- wireless sync of Address Book and iCal (after all i am a .mac user)
- a way to access iDisk
- file manager/document sync'r
- GPS receiver inside
- 3G (Denver so i don't have it now, but might SOMEDAY)
- expandable memory
- replaceable battery
- video output (no it does not do video output like and iPod)

All in all I really enjoy it, sorry. :)

[onlydarksets]

As far as my "iPhonethoughts". I really think this was a very, very smart move on Apples part. I'm not talking about marketing BS and all this hype, although it has worked out well. I am talking about lack of third party software. I think it's brilliant! After running everything, and I mean everything from a PalmPilot to a BlackJack I must say that the third part apps are what has ruined every single device for me. I would get a new PocketPC/SmartPhone, run home and load PInformant, Resco and a ton of others to get the device useable. Then after a week or so when the newness wears off it was too slow, or hard reset prone, etc. I don't mean to say that this device won't be that way, but at least not at first.

This has been my impression as well - what Apple has always succeeded incredibly well at are closed systems. Their laptops are able to do things that Windows laptops can't do because Apple owns the hardware and the software. The iPod/iTunes/ITMS triumverate defined closed systems. Now, by controlling the hardware and the software (not to mention iTunes and activation), the iPhone is able to do things that WM phones just can't do.

However, this is also why OS X is an "also ran" in the marketplace - the true market drivers (businesses, not individuals) demand flexibility and extensibility. Apple may license BB's software, giving them true push email on Exchange. However, Apple is controlling what people may do with the iPhone, which means that, while it will certainly be a consumer success, it will not overtake the enterprise without a drastic change in approach.

[onlydarksets]

Also, I'm tired of hearing about the battery life. My 2G WM phones got at least 5 hours of talk time. And, I could bring a spare battery. Try popping 3G in there and see what happens.

[JohnJohn]

However, this is also why OS X is an "also ran" in the marketplace - the true market drivers (businesses, not individuals) demand flexibility and extensibility. Apple may license BB's software, giving them true push email on Exchange. However, Apple is controlling what people may do with the iPhone, which means that, while it will certainly be a consumer success, it will not overtake the enterprise without a drastic change in approach.

I think there is more on the business front. I searched jobs at Apple. They are in the process hiring business development people for placement Apple stores. These job description holds these people responsible for sourcing small to medium size business opportunities. I believe this to be the next phase for Apple. Steve Jobs hinted at this in a speech, sorry can't quote, or reference.

Now will this version of the iPhone be a part of that, not sure. I would guess that we'll know more when Leopard releases; maybe as soon as Office 2007 releases for MAC. If this phone is part of those solutions, I would guess we'll begin to see more "movers". Now, all said from a recent "mover", so take it for what it's worth. :)

[simpleme]

Actually the OS size is pretty compact. Don't forget "8GB" is marketing-speak. 8 Gigabytes is 8,000,000,000 decimal bytes (1000^3 bytes), which mathematically is 7,450,580,597 bytes (7.45GB, or 8x1000^3 / 1024^3). The iPhone with no content is 7.25 GB. So the OS is only about 200MB, not too shabby I'd think.

[rdecker]

I am glad to hear that you can pull the SIM out of the iPhone and use it in the Blackjack. Knowing that I may just get one and use the BJ at work (for push email capabilities) and use the iPhone on nights/weekends.

Thanks for the information

[heov]

honestly, how many consumers carry around spare batteries? it's not like the iphone is lacking the battery life dept anyway.

Basically only "business" users carry extra batteries around. Teens, college students, soccer moms, and my dad, do not (of course there are exceptions).

And what if the battery loses its charge? yeah that could be a problem, but by then ppl would generally get a new phone. Basically, I'm pretty sure most trendy consumers who bought the razr and such don't give a **** about the non removable battery.

Plus I think apple did one hell of a job on their first revision... it may not be perfect, but it is going ot sell well and it is quite usable. apple is pretty godo their second time around... as are most companies.

Also, iPhone isn't for me, but damn microsoft, why can't you get rid of the "lag" already. iphone is super snappy- everything is smooth. I could care less about the snazzy UI, but I'm getting sick and tired of having to wait 3 seconds for my text messages to load for the first time, or the 1 second lag when i press "start" for the first time. (smartphone wm5, that is). I mean that's why I stuck with wm2k3 back in my pocket pc days- it was snappy!

[Jerry Raia]

Three seconds too much eh? 8)

[Kirkaiya]

I think that 700MB OS is going to be the downfall of the iPhone. Sure it was pretty to look at when I got to play with it on launch day, but the OS was buggy and slow (compared to the video commercials) and the device was hard to type with. All of those problems are minor problems though, the big problem will be that gigantic OS which I'm sure will have a ton of holes for people to exploit.


I have to respectfully disagree with the point about the footprint of the OS being a negative. As a looonggg-time windows device user (from my Cassiopeia E-11, to my iPaq 3650, to my Viewsonic V37, to my iPaq 1910, to my WinCE 4.2 PDA-phone Axia A108 to my current WM5 Dopod S300), I've seen the size and complexity of mobile operating-systems grow and grow and grow.

My E-11 had, I think, 8 MB of ROM, and legions of Palm users ridiculed that as huge, given that the Palm OS at the time was a fraction of that size. Windows Mobile 5 takes up roughly 50 MB of ROM, and some of the fully-packed Windows Mobile "professional" (aka WM6) machines come with 128 MB of ROM to fit the OS and bundled apps.

Given the amazing drop in price and size of flash memory, and given the history of Microsoft's often-criticized "fat" mobile OSes, I think it's a bit of a stretch for fans of Windows to criticize Apple's OS for it's size. That size is an advantage, because it means they can fit more elegant interfaces, more functionality, etc., into the device.



There is no reason, whatsoever, to have an operating system on a phone that is almost as large as operating systems on computers a few years ago.


That sounds awfully close to Bill Gate's famous "there's no reason anyone needs more than 640K on a computer" line... as storage becomes affordable, device-makers will fill it.


but is it really an "application" if you have to use your browser to run it?


Yes. With the caveat being that high-bandwidth connections are what make the user experience of hosted applications so great - and Apple's iPhone, with it's lowly EDGE connection, is going to make it very hard to create a good user experience using such apps.

You ask if it's "really an 'application'" - well, is Salesforce.com making millions selling a browser-based application? Is Google Maps an application? Are online word processors and spreadsheets applicaitions? (if you've used Zimbra's groupware, you already know that it's a fully-featured application).

The answer is yes - there are many applications (Google, Yahoo chat via meebo or Yahoo's new web-IM client, currency converters, RSS aggregators, mapping tools, online banking, etc.) that use web-based interfaces, rather than windows forms apps (or their linux or Mac equivalents).


All in all, I have to admit that I don't personally want an iPhone, at least not quite yet. But none of us here are the "typical" users that Apple is targeting - we're all very tech-savy users who can name feature sets, we know the difference between EDGE and UMTS, we know how much memory is in our phones, etc., etc.

My wife has an iPod Nano that I bought her two years ago. She loves it - she's only seen photos of the iPhone, and already wants one (luckily, they're not available in Thailand yet!!) Keep in mind - most people have no clue how much memory is in their phone, most people aren't yet using their phones for much besides voice calling and some text-messaging, maybe listening to an occasional song. In that regard, the iPhone is targeted well - it's got a great UI, a seductive-looking form-factor, has lots of storage (the 8 GB model) for music, which is more than most iPod users actually use (if you read survey's of the actual amount of storage used on ipods, a year ago it was something like 6 or 8 GB, although some people obviously max out their 60 GB models).

As somebody said - one simple update patch, and iPhone users will have some Apple'fied version of Skype, and a dedicated chat client, and other goodies. If and when they add 3G, even technophiles will start looking at it seriously. They're going to sell millions of these things, as the price drops and on-board RAM increases...

[keirmeister]

I've read reports that the Bluetooth on the iPhone is also lacking. Apparently it will only connect to a headset (no Bluetooth file transfer, PAN, etc.)

If this is true, I'm completely appalled. Not even PAN? So you can't use the iPhone to get your Macbook online? That's insane!

I use a TyTN, and the iPhone beats it only in glossiness, interface, and screen resolution.

....and the iPhone's screen is gorgeous! Mmmmm..

[rdecker]

Yep - How much you wanna bet, though, that the Apple boys are reading all these kind of comment and taking notes for the next firmware update via iTunes......

[DaleReeck]

Yep - How much you wanna bet, though, that the Apple boys are reading all these kind of comment and taking notes for the next firmware update via iTunes......

The only thing that concerns me is that you guys are putting a lot of faith in what Apple *may* fix with this phone. But there are no guarantees that Apple will address any of this stuff. I'm sure they will try and fix a decent amount of it, they would have too much to lose if they didn't. But the list of missing features/bugs is a pretty good size from what I've been reading. They may address most of that stuff in completely new hardware, iPhone 2.0. It wouldn't be the first time a company screwed people over that way.

[hylton]

As a super anti-apple anything kinda guy, very very married and devoted to MS technology in general, I got a chance to play w/ an iPhone this morning by a guy that is on the other side of the fence from me (we do get along, but definitely apple vs microsoft arguments brew on any given day).

Anyway, WOW, very impressed w/ the UI on this device. But, as many have said, once you get past the GooGooGaaGaa of the UI, the device falls apart in my opinion. Not that WM is a whole lot less 'proprietary', but it's been pretty open since the beginning (or at least the last few years) to install pretty much anything you want on it, assuming what you want has been written or you can write it yourself. While the UI seems a bit clunky on a WM PPC (much less so on WM Smartphone IMO) than an iPhone, the platform is more open, more mature, and overall more functional for any end user that wants anything more than email, music, and phone.

I think my point has been rehashed over and over again by alot of folks, but I'm only making it to make my second point. Which is...with the lack of out-of-the-box functionality, so much closed functionality, and only the promise of it become more open as time progresses...I think all it will take is the next generation of WM devices to seal the fate of the iPhone to the same category as Mac computers...only the hard-core Apple-ites will still buy them or want them. It's a really sweet entertainment device at best. We'll see I guess.

I just think once you bring some 'Surface' features to the PPC (Pro) and Smartphone (Standard) platforms in WM, you are going to see another leap forward in WM devices that leave things like the iPhone in the dust.

On a side note, as a phone, I found the iPhone kinda cumbersome, much like a PPC (Pro) WM phone. No easy way to just bring up the dialer and go. It's a 2 click process.

I still perfer the Smartphone (WM Standard) flavor. I want a phone first, all-in-one-gadget second ! ! !

Chris

[rdecker]

You may be right. I am waiting for "iPhone 2.0" because I want 3G.

[Rocco Augusto]

There is no reason, whatsoever, to have an operating system on a phone that is almost as large as operating systems on computers a few years ago.


That sounds awfully close to Bill Gate's famous "there's no reason anyone needs more than 640K on a computer" line... as storage becomes affordable, device-makers will fill it.

Well, the good news is, from what I read around the Interweb, the OS size is closer to 200MB than 700MB. 200MB of OS is a lot more forgiving for the lack of user features on the iPhone but at the same time it is still ridiculous.

It would be one thing if the phone had a majority of the features that you would get with the free phone on AT&T or even the low end feature phone, but Apple provided users with pretty much nothing. While the stuff they did provide was beautiful, there is no question about that, there is still a TON of missing basic low-end stuff that users expect, like MMS.

What amuses me the most is that everyone is jumping to defend Apple stating that they could release a system update at anytime to enable these missing features. If Microsoft pulled a stunt like this, everyone would be tearing them apart and going on rant after rant about how "out of touch" Microsoft is with what hte consumer wants, but when Apple does something similar, it suddenly becomes alright?

Sure Apple could release an update in the future and give everyone IM support or GPS support or even MMS and A2DP support... but that doesn't excuse the fact that they released a phone that cost as much as a small country without all of those features when the average user could still pick up a Motorola SLVR L2/L7 for close to nothing and it would have every single one of those features... minus GPS.

Apple screwed customer and as beautiful as the iPhone is at the end of the day it is nothing more than a insanely expensive BETA product. Instead of rushing this phone to market, Apple should have speant more time working on the device. They have a ton of talented developers over there, there is no excuse for this.

As for the applications, I just have a problem with having to use my web browser for any added application that I would choose to use. What happens if I am somewhere with no signal and can not hope on the data network to get to the application I want? What happens when some clever programmers discover some serious security holes and someone takes advantage of it?

I just wouldn't feel comfortable using an application like FlexWallet that was built around an Internet browser. This is why I like platforms like Windows Mobile where developers can create content they want for a system without an all powerful overlord looking over there shoulder.

[socrates]

Anyway, WOW, very impressed w/ the UI on this device. But, as many have said, once you get past the GooGooGaaGaa of the UI, the device falls apart in my opinion.

The good news for Apple is that there are a whole lot of people in this country that never get past the the "oh WOW" part of anything.

[edgar]

WM upgrades is a flash that is the same as a hard reset most of the time. Apple tends to be inline with no damage to data. Let's see if that holds true. With the exception of 3g the other items are software addressable, not hardware, so again, I am interested in the next few months to see what happens.

I'm using just an iphone for a couple weeks to see what it's like - its only fair :)

I love my Blackjack smartphone - since I got my blackjack I haven't even turned on my PPC - I even gave away one of my HX4700's.

Its new, its innovative, Give it a month to see how Apple responds. I'm sure right now they are focused on meeting demand (which far outstripped any other mobile phone to date).

BTW, MMS is a rarely used feature on a Joe Schmoe level on any device. The ARPU we receive from MMS is way lower than EU/Asia and not growing as fast as we'd all like :)

[djdj]

I've got mixed feelings on the iPhone personally.

I like that Apple is bringing "smart" phone technology to the masses. Or, at a very minimum, attention to "smart" phone technology. (I have to put "smart" in quotations because you, as pointed out, can't install 3rd party apps on the iPhone, and, no, Browser-based Apps don't count because they have too many limitations, like not being able to access anything in local storage for one). I think having this sort of attention on smarter phones is a good thing. It may bring a few new users to Windows Mobile when people discover the limitations of the iPhone.

I also think that the GUI on the iPhone is very pretty. How usable it is in the real world is another issue. Multiple taps to get to the core phone functionality isn't exactly a good thing. After all, it's only a couple taps to get to some of the features on my Dash, but because they're a couple taps away I find myself not using them. Most of the time I use my Dash for making phone calls, and from the home screen all I have to do is start typing the name or number and I'm good to go. Most of the time I'm on the home screen, but if I'm not it's a single button click away. The iPhone has no such feature to start dialing quickly, and there is no search feature to find a contact quickly by typing part of their name.

Continuing that thought, applications that are two or more away don't get used much. I think it is really cool that I have Windows Media Player on my Dash, but I hardly use it because it takes so long to get to the player to stop, change tracks, etc. because there are no hardware buttons dedicated to this task. (My SDA was much better that way.) The iPod functionality on the iPhone has the same limitation. If you are reading your email and want to change tracks, it is at least 4 taps away to make the change. And then you have to find your way back to where you were in your email (there is no "back" button). Having a full keyboard may take up a lot of space on a device, but having at least a few hardware keys, or at a minimum a few software keys that are always on screen, is important when it comes to providing features that you want the user to actually use. If Apple is really concerned about usability they would change a few things on the device... always keep buttons for the main functions on-screen so you don't have to do this Home, tap, tap, tap, mumbojumbo to get to the core functionality of the device. Of course its current behavior won't deter the diehard Apple or iPhone fans, but it is an issue. I suspect after some time that most iPhone users are going to stick to a couple of functions the majority of the time and leave the rest alone.

A few of you have mentioned that the (700MB?) size of the OS isn't an issue because of the "massive" storage available on the iPhone. Maybe true since the firmware is already on the device when you buy it. But will you be saying the same thing when you install a new version of the OS? Certainly some of the missing functionality can't be fixed with a small patch.

8GB isn't enough for a lot of us at this price range. At $600 it should be an 80GB device. It also ought to support a few other file formats. I'm not going to re-rip my CDs just to conform to Apple's nearly closed file format. MP3 doesn't count; it sounds terrible. We need OGG, FLAC, WMA, etc.

A few have also mentioned battery replacement. Sure there are a few that need to carry an extra battery to get through a day (or multiple days as the case may be). The bigger issue, though, is replacing a worn out battery. Cell phone batteries only last a couple of years at most, maybe less on the iPhone depending on usage. If you listen to music and watch videos on the device a lot the battery is going to wear out faster than a device that isn't performing these functions. Apple is basically asking you to replace your iPhone every couple of years with the way the battery is setup. I know some won't care about that, but there are going to be those that don't want to fork out another $600 every couple of years just because their battery won't get through a full day again. When you spend this much on a cell phone, most people are going to want to keep it for a while.

One of the biggest things that gets me about the device is how closed it is. Apple is saying, "if you want another application, write it on a browser." Those of us who do development (web or desktop) know how much of a pain it is to write decent apps to run in a browser. And the browser environment poses a ton of limitations. You can't access local storage, so any files you create have to be stored on a server. Applications also aren't stored on the device, so when you need to open one it has to be downloaded from a server -- so they would not be available when you don't have phone service, like on an airplane. Applications can't interact with the operating system or hardware at any level. This is especially annoying since the iPhone doesn't support Flash or Java -- everything has to be done using HTML, XML, and Javascript. Browser apps also wouldn't be able to take advantage of some of the things that make the iPhone as cool as it is -- multitouch and core animation, just to name a couple.

A few other things that I just don't understand. Lack of support for Bluetooth profiles beyond Headset. Apple used to be really good with their Bluetooth support, but it has slipped in recent years. You can't even get a Mac to join a Bluetooth network, for example. And no bluetooth headphones on a music player? Come on! It would also be nice to use the data plan that you are paying for for your laptop, but you can't.

The complete omission of any games surprises me too. What do you find people doing with their smartphones (lowercase=devices in general, not just WM specific) and PDAs when they're riding the bus, waiting in line, etc? Playing games. Sure you can listen to music or videos, but these aren't interactive. With the multitouch interface the iPhone could have had some amazingly fun games.

The iPhone isn't without a few charms, though. The visual voicemail feature is really cool. (I've come close to emulating it with uReach voicemail via IMAP on my Dash, but it isn't the same). The photo browser is also cool. And having a browser that can render pages the same way they would appear on a desktop is something I've been looking for for a long time. For everything that the iPhone does do, it is well integrated and, for the most part, presented well to the user.

But overall it is about what I would expect from Apple. Provide a few cool features to impress, but leave out a bunch of features that a lot of users would consider essential (style over substance?), and provide excuses why they aren't there. And then block attempts by third parties to try to add those features. It's about what I would expect from the maker of the iPod, Apple TV, and OS X. "You'll do with your device what we tell you you can do with your device." Seems ironic coming from the company that came up with the famous 1984 computer ad for the original Mac.

[Jerry Raia]

I just read they sold 500,000 of these things over the weekend. Obviously they didn't need the business market. The lack of applications etc. didn't seem to bother anyone either. I have to admit I am surprised.

[aristoBrat]

Sure Apple could release an update in the future and give everyone IM support or GPS support or even MMS and A2DP support... but that doesn't excuse the fact that they released a phone that cost as much as a small country without all of those features when the average user could still pick up a Motorola SLVR L2/L7 for close to nothing and it would have every single one of those features... minus GPS.

Apple screwed customer and as beautiful as the iPhone is at the end of the day it is nothing more than a insanely expensive BETA product. Instead of rushing this phone to market, Apple should have speant more time working on the device. They have a ton of talented developers over there, there is no excuse for this.
BETA product? Are you saying that because it doesn't have IM, GPS, MMS and A2DP that the functionality of the features it does have is BETA quality? :?:

As for the iPhone costing as much as a "small country", that all depends on how you look at it. The upfront cost is higher, but the monthly fee for unlimited data is lower (I think only Sprint matches it), so at the end of a 2-year contract, you end having paid about the same as a device that was less expensive up front but had a more expensive monthly data plan.

Another interesting thing about the price of the iPhone is that its the same, regardless of your "upgrade eligibility status" with AT&T, or whether or not you're a new customer.

Cost of an iPhone after a 2-year contract =
$599 = 8GB device
$480 = 2 years of data @ $20/month
------------
$1079

Cost of a Verizon 6700 after a 2-year contract =
$299 = device
$960 = 2 years of data @ $40/month
------------
$1259 ($180 more than the iPhone)

Cost of a Cingular BlackJack after a 2-year contract =
$99 = device
$960 = 2 years of unlimited data @ $40/month
------------
$1059 ($20 less than the iPhone)

Cost of a T-Mobile Wing after a 2-year contract =
$299 = device
$720 = 2 years of unlimited data @ $30/month
------------
$1019 ($60 less than the iPhone)

[heov]

yeah i feel bad for the att pda/qwerty kb users that are paying 40/month for their internet when the iphone gets to "legally" use the 20 dollar plan (of course pda's can use the 20 dollar plan too, but it's against their terms)

[Stinger]

8GB isn't enough for a lot of us at this price range. At $600 it should be an 80GB device. It also ought to support a few other file formats. I'm not going to re-rip my CDs just to conform to Apple's nearly closed file format. MP3 doesn't count; it sounds terrible. We need OGG, FLAC, WMA, etc.

I agree with a lot of your points but AAC is not a "nearly closed" file format! It's an ISO standard and developed by a wide range of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer IIS, AT&T, Sony and Nokia. Apple was not one of the companies who developed the format.

It's used in cell phones, games consoles, mp3 players and many more devices.

MP3 is a closed file format. WMA is a closed file format. AAC is not. AAC can be used to distributing and streaming media for free. Only encoder/decoder developers pay a license fee for using AAC.

Rant over. :)

[djdj]

I agree with a lot of your points but AAC is not a "nearly closed" file format! It's an ISO standard and developed by a wide range of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer IIS, AT&T, Sony and Nokia. Apple was not one of the companies who developed the format.
It is closed in the sense that none of the software (pro level stuff) that I use on a regular basis supports it. So to me, it is essentially useless. The other common formats are supported by the software I use, so they are much more useful.

[Doug Raeburn]

Cost of a Cingular BlackJack after a 2-year contract =
$99 = device
$960 = 2 years of unlimited data @ $40/month
------------
$1059 ($20 less than the iPhone)


Some people who were fortunate enough to have an unlimited data plan with AT&T/Cingular for a phone like the RAZR and then switched to a smartphone like the Blackjack were able to keep the $20 data plan for the smartphone as well. Which makes the Blackjack $500 cheaper than the iPhone if comparable data plan pricing is used.

And that's of course with 3G access rather than the significantly slower EDGE. Although that's not a tremendous advantage until AT&T's 3G network is more widely available. Fortunately for me, the metropolitan Milwaukee area and most suburbs have strong 3G coverage... and that's fairly recent, part of AT&T's recent push to expand that network. They do have a ways to go, though... during a recent trip, I was stuck with EDGE in Minneapolis.

I think what you're going to see happen is a crush of AT&T PDA customers complaining about the fact that iPhone buyers are getting a $20/month discount for comparable data access on a generally comparable phone. In fact, if you're an AT&T PDA or smartphone customer with a $40/month data plan, I encourage you to complain to AT&T about the inequitable pricing as compared to an iPhone. Within a few months, my guess is that you'll see the PDA unlimited plan reduced in price to eliminate or reduce that disparity.

[Anthony Caruana]

I agree with a lot of your points but AAC is not a "nearly closed" file format! It's an ISO standard and developed by a wide range of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer IIS, AT&T, Sony and Nokia. Apple was not one of the companies who developed the format.
It is closed in the sense that none of the software (pro level stuff) that I use on a regular basis supports it. So to me, it is essentially useless. The other common formats are supported by the software I use, so they are much more useful.

So, by your logic AAC is "closed" because a bunch of device manufacturers don't want to support it as an open standard. What about WMA? That's probably got wider support

As for the pro-level support - we're talking about a phone that can play music, in MP3 as well as AAC. MP3 support covers most of the music market and AAC is used because of the ability to apply DRM.

As for the rest of this discussion - the iPhone's UI will be a point of debate for a long time. Probably in the same way as Vista vs OS X. However, there's little doubt that the iPhone's UI, while imperfect, will drive all phone makers to a higher standard.

[Rocco Augusto]

BETA product? Are you saying that because it doesn't have IM, GPS, MMS and A2DP that the functionality of the features it does have is BETA quality? :?:

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Between the phones buggy, yet beautiful UI, as well as the fact that it is missing features left and right on top of the fact that it was already delayed and then rushed to market leads me to my statement of the iPhone being nothing more than BETA hardware.

There is no doubt that over time, the iPhone will be a fantastic handset as I'm sure Apple will ahve developers working around the clock to make sure that new feature sets are delivered. Unfortunately, until that time happens, no one can ignore that this device is incomplete.

[AdamaDBrown]

I just read they sold 500,000 of these things over the weekend. Obviously they didn't need the business market. The lack of applications etc. didn't seem to bother anyone either. I have to admit I am surprised.

Give it time. Overhyped movies make a lot of money the first weekend too, but it's whether or not those sales drop off that's the real long-term test. Given the level of overkill to which the marketing for the iPhone had gone, I'd have been shocked if it didn't do massive numbers the first weekend. The test will be once the word of mouth starts circulating, and whether or not the bloom comes off the rose for those half a million users.

Some people who were fortunate enough to have an unlimited data plan with AT&T/Cingular for a phone like the RAZR and then switched to a smartphone like the Blackjack were able to keep the $20 data plan for the smartphone as well. Which makes the Blackjack $500 cheaper than the iPhone if comparable data plan pricing is used.

Also, with the Blackjack, and probably most other devices, you can opt not to get a data plan. You can't say the same about the iPhone. Whatever way you slice it, it's a lot more expensive.

[frankenbike]

The one thing the iPhone is doing that users of Smartphone devices have been unable to do up until now, is convince Microsoft and wireless providers that Smartphones are consumer devices.

Up until now, the carriers and Microsoft have been convinced that Smartphones are primarily for enterprise customers.

It wouldn't be hard to configure a Smartphone device for consumer use, but that would mean:

Devices would have to come with a hair more memory (how much could it possibly cost to include 256 of RAM as the standard, basic configuration?)

Devices come with more built in flash memory (a 2gb micro SD can be had for well under $30 retail, 4 gb mini SD at under $40)...but not at the complete sacrifice of additional memory through cards.

Freakin' standard headphone jacks, with the assumption that you'll be listening to music.

Even without improving the devices themselves as is, they should come with consumer friendly start/home screens. Especially the touch sensitive devices (which work fine even when you don't use the stylus if the icons are big). The Mogul threads on sites like Sprintusers.com indicate that the devices are certainly in need of hobbyist intervention to make them reach their potential.

The iPhone has a great interface. One that's easily imitated if you leave off the animation functions (which use up memory and are pointless anyway). And pocket WMP could use some serious improvement to make it really consumer friendly. Threaded text messaging, multiple email address support, filtering, tabbed browsers, multiple service IM, mapped searching (even without GPS, this can be done just by figuring out which tower you're connected to)...all of this can be accomplished with consumer effort now. It could come out of the box that way.

Smartphones could have stolen the iPhone's thunder long before it was even announced, if MS and the carriers had seen the obvious. With consumers in mind, they could have snatched away some iPod sales too (eg lots of storage for music and decent stores to download music directly to the phone, or internet radio services).

It's also obvious, that carriers haven't seen how people actually use the phones, especially younger people. All those Treos and Qs aren't being sold to business folk, they're being bought by teens and young adults who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time text messaging each other.

And the problem isn't just the companies. It's also the phone users. How many threads have I see where people sabotage efforts to rally support for increased storage out of the box because they say "I don't need all that storage, I just use my phone as a PIM and sync my email with work". Or, "I can add all the storage I want". That just means the standard principle at work for the phones is a small memory/storage footprint and small standard capabilities. 4gb of standard storage (from the current 128 or 256 mb) with removable storage on top of that would mean a huge jump in base functionality (and consequently a bigger OS to accommodate that functionality, but so what?).

Smartphones should be consumer devices first, and outfitting them as enterprise devices could be an afterthought easily within their capabilities.

[WorksForTurkeys]

without going into a lot of details, I'd like to point out one issue about the iphone. I haven't had to reset mine in 6 days of continuous operation (which includes receiving approx 400 emails / day from six different (mixed protocols) accounts, seriously surfing the web, and approx. 80% of the tasks I use my Motorola Q for. In all the years I've had WM / PocketPC / Smartphone devices, I've never gone even 1 day without at least 1 reset.

You really shouldn't denigrate it until you've tried living with it for a few days.

[edgar]

I have to say the same, the damn thing just works. And it pulls 100% of my email down, approx 150-200/day in work email, 50 in AOL and another 25 in Gmail (all in full HTML and 100% download none of that first 1k crap - with attachments)

Safari just rocks having a fully compliant browser (pinning for flash though).

I checked my AT&T bills for last 6 mos, I used MMS 3 times. So thats a non-issue for me. This thing just works, I am pleasantly surprised. And Edge hasnt been a killer to me, i've been pretty solid with it.

I am a CE person since Casio E100 days - Newton 100 when you look at PDAs as a whole. It doesn't have any of the major errors I had with eith of the MPX's I had. Not nearly as troublesome as the HX4700 at first.

And best of all, it works solidly in my BMW with BT full address book download and as an ipod into the BMW/IPOD adapter. So now I reduced my carry load by one more device. When I got the Blackjack I stopped carrying my HX4700. Now I don't carry that or my IPOD. I seem to be handling it ok

Also, surprisingly, the number of web based apps for the iPhone are already taking off, some of them quite solid including games. From your iphone goto http://iphoneappsmanager.com/ ; comes up on IE but not real pretty :)

Also, its much easier to get a Tivo to Go video to iphone then Pocketpc/smartphone (and damn the screen is nice on the iphone)

[onlydarksets]

without going into a lot of details, I'd like to point out one issue about the iphone. I haven't had to reset mine in 6 days of continuous operation (which includes receiving approx 400 emails / day from six different (mixed protocols) accounts, seriously surfing the web, and approx. 80% of the tasks I use my Motorola Q for. In all the years I've had WM / PocketPC / Smartphone devices, I've never gone even 1 day without at least 1 reset.

You really shouldn't denigrate it until you've tried living with it for a few days.

That is the BIGGEST benefit of the closed system I was talking about. Absolute control over every aspect of every application means you can have almost perfect memory management. I'm glad it works for you - I would go nuts with having ZERO control over how my device operates, even if it is as well-thought out as the iPhone is. It's great for what it is, but what it is simply is not for everyone.

[Mike Temporale]

without going into a lot of details, I'd like to point out one issue about the iphone. I haven't had to reset mine in 6 days of continuous operation (which includes receiving approx 400 emails / day from six different (mixed protocols) accounts, seriously surfing the web, and approx. 80% of the tasks I use my Motorola Q for. In all the years I've had WM / PocketPC / Smartphone devices, I've never gone even 1 day without at least 1 reset.

I almost never reset my devices. The BlackJack is an exception because I'm swapping the battery every couple days or so. But my 5600, Dash, SP5m, etc... go days and days without a reboot. I think this, as onlydarksets points out, is related to poorly written 3rd party apps. In a closed system, there are no 3rd party apps - so nothing is running a muck with your devices memory. Try hard reseting a device and don't install any apps on it. See how long it goes before you have to restart it. I think you'll find that it's a solid device. At least, I have found it to be.

[Damion Chaplin]

I almost never reset my devices. The BlackJack is an exception because I'm swapping the battery every couple days or so. But my 5600, Dash, SP5m, etc... go days and days without a reboot. I think this, as onlydarksets points out, is related to poorly written 3rd party apps. In a closed system, there are no 3rd party apps - so nothing is running a muck with your devices memory. Try hard reseting a device and don't install any apps on it. See how long it goes before you have to restart it. I think you'll find that it's a solid device. At least, I have found it to be.

Agreed. The Blackjack is the first WM-anything that I've owned that I haven't had the immediate urge to install an app on. I've been using it for over a month now and have not installed a single app and I'm not sure I'm going to. With no 3rd-party software the Blackjack 'just works' as well...

That said, I'd still rather have the option of installing 3rd-party apps and not doing so than not have a choice at all.

[Mike Temporale]

Agreed. The Blackjack is the first WM-anything that I've owned that I haven't had the immediate urge to install an app on. I've been using it for over a month now and have not installed a single app and I'm not sure I'm going to. With no 3rd-party software the Blackjack 'just works' as well...

That said, I'd still rather have the option of installing 3rd-party apps and not doing so than not have a choice at all.

If you like the stability, just stay with the major ISVs and keep clear of the free and fly by night guys. You shouldn't have any problems then.

[Doug Raeburn]

Agreed. The Blackjack is the first WM-anything that I've owned that I haven't had the immediate urge to install an app on. I've been using it for over a month now and have not installed a single app and I'm not sure I'm going to. With no 3rd-party software the Blackjack 'just works' as well...

That said, I'd still rather have the option of installing 3rd-party apps and not doing so than not have a choice at all.

If you like the stability, just stay with the major ISVs and keep clear of the free and fly by night guys. You shouldn't have any problems then.

Agreed. Although I have more apps installed, the 2 3rd-party apps that I use the most often on my Blackjack are Developer One's Agenda One and WebIS' FlexMail 2007. Agenda One adds more power and much improved ease of use as compared to the rather basic Outlook Mobile apps. FlexMail blows the standard Messaging app right out of the water with desktop-class mail options and HTML and rich text mail right now on a WM 5 device.

Both apps are published by long-standing developers who know what they're doing with Windows Mobile. And both apps are rock solid. Almost no resets necessary on my Blackjack... at most once a month. And with all the years of extensive use of many different Pocket PCs, I've never come even close to having to reset a device once every day. The worst might have been a couple times a week. But as Mike suggested, I always stick with major established developers for my apps. Always have, always will.

[Jason Dunn]

Some interesting thoughts. I wish I had time this week to dig into what I think of the iPhone, but it's been a bad week and I'm still in post-vacation-catch-up mode.

The short version of my opinion is that Apple got 80% of what they needed to get right with the iPhone. When I used it I was quite impressed with most of how it worked. Microsoft, Nokia, Motorola, and every other company selling phones to consumers should be scared out of their minds. On the enterprise side of things, meh, Apple doesn't deliver and quite possibly never will. The iPhone isn't a smartphone that can truly compete with my Dash or another Windows Mobile smarpthone...but what it does deliver is many of the things that the "edge case" smartphones users want - meaning they might not need to use a Windows Mobile smartphone before...and that's why Microsoft and their partners should be scared.

[Jason Dunn]

Fantastic first post!

The one thing the iPhone is doing that users of Smartphone devices have been unable to do up until now, is convince Microsoft and wireless providers that Smartphones are consumer devices.
Up until now, the carriers and Microsoft have been convinced that Smartphones are primarily for enterprise customers. It wouldn't be hard to configure a Smartphone device for consumer use, but that would mean...

Agreed 100%. I think Microsoft dropped the ball completely, utterly, and totally by only focusing on enterprise users and that's why I think the iPhone is getting so much hype - Joe Consumer really DOES want a cool phone that does a lot but is also easy to use...even if it takes a few more taps to get things done.

[Jerry Raia]

I think the initial excitement, while impressive, will fade.