Windows Mobile Error Reporting Says - "We're Sorry"

[Kris Kumar]

Remember the Doctor Watson on Windows NT 4.0? The famous doctor has morphed in to Windows Error Reporting, and now the same technology is present on your Windows Mobile 5.0 based devices to track and report the errors. Unlike its desktop cousin, the Windows Mobile version of Error Reporting is turned off by default. Recently I turned on the Error Reporting functionality on my Smartphone and here is a quick look at what you can expect from this feature.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER1.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 1: An error has occurred.</i><br /><br />Windows Mobile shows the "We're Sorry" screen with a brief description identifying the rogue application, in this case the Cingular's Xpress Mail application file triggered the error. The screen prompts the Smartphone user for the next step. Let's take a look at the error details before we trigger the transmission of the error report to Microsoft.<br /><!> <br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER2.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 2: The Report Details screen. </i><br /><br />Nothing much on this screen except for the data collection policy and another link pointing to the technical information contained in the error report.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER3.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 3: Error Report page has more links.</i><br /><br />The Error Report is split into two sections "Error Report" and "CEDevice.Log". I am not sure if these two sections are always present or if more sections are added to the Error Report depending on the error scenario.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER4.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 4: Finally the Error Report, details about the offending party. Check out the scroll bar, there is a lot of data here.</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER5.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 5: Error Report part II, the CEDevice.log.</i><br /><br />Again check out the the scroll bar, lot of data is being logged. I couldn't make out much except for the fact that the text in the above screen reads <i>"Product=Smartphone."</i> I hope rest of the logged information makes sense to Microsoft, once it receives the log.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER6.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 6: Thank you.</i><br /><br />Once you submit the error report, you are presented with the thank you note from Microsoft. Interestingly, the error information that was just transmitted to Microsoft from the Smartphone is not billed on the user's cellular bill, that is really good thinking. I wonder how the information is transmitted? Is the information sent using the data network or SMS messages?<br /><br /><img src="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/images/Kris-Feb06-ER7.jpg" alt="User submitted image" title="User submitted image"/><br /><i>Figure 7: Error Reporting can be enabled in the Start -> Settings menu.</i><br /><br />I think we should turn this feature on and send in the error reports to Microsoft. So that Microsoft gets an idea of our pain. ;-) After all it doesn't cost us a cent.

[alex_kac]

On Pocket PC it is on by default. Two, it slows down the device by about 10-20%.

[KTamas]

On Pocket PC it is on by default. Two, it slows down the device by about 10-20%.
It also causes many problems with third party programs (namely, PocketBreeze for example).

[Mike Temporale]

I've had it turned on since I got my SP5m and I have yet to see any of these crash screens. :D

I also haven't noticed the speed difference that alex mentions. I'll have to turn it off for a couple days and see if it's any different.

[stumpy]

I wonder if its really at no cost to us. If someone could track their data traffic during a crash or a error reporting and find out for sure because I am a little skeptical about the no cost.

[Kris Kumar]

I wonder if its really at no cost to us. If someone could track their data traffic during a crash or a error reporting and find out for sure because I am a little skeptical about the no cost.

I saw the crash only once, so haven't been able to figure out if it uses the data network or not.

I think only Microsoft can truly confirm if it is free or not.

[Kris Kumar]

I haven't seen any performance problems but then there is no clear way to tell. :-(

[Kris Kumar]

It also causes many problems with third party programs (namely, PocketBreeze for example).

Interesting; has Microsoft or the makers of PocketBreeze acknowledged the problem? What is their stand?

[jeffpaul]

I wonder if its really at no cost to us. If someone could track their data traffic during a crash or a error reporting and find out for sure because I am a little skeptical about the no cost.

I saw the crash only once, so haven't been able to figure out if it uses the data network or not.

I think only Microsoft can truly confirm if it is free or not.

Pocket Watson should use only the desktop pass-thru or ethernet to connect in "no cost" mode.

Jeffrey Paul
Development Manager - Mobile Information Worker Products
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Kris Kumar]

Pocket Watson should use only the desktop pass-thru or ethernet to connect in "no cost" mode.

Jeffrey Paul
Development Manager - Mobile Information Worker Products
Microsoft Corporation


Thanks Jeffrey,

That is excellent design choice; using the ActiveSync based desktop pass-thru connection for transmitting info. 8)

[KTamas]

It also causes many problems with third party programs (namely, PocketBreeze for example).

Interesting; has Microsoft or the makers of PocketBreeze acknowledged the problem? What is their stand?
Well, I've talked to Amit (the developer of PB) and he said, that it has to do something with signed or unsigned apps calling an unsigned dll (or...something like this, I'm sure he can explain it much better than I do). The funny thing is, that even that you get a "gwes.exe crashed etc." error, it has not really crashed at all, so this is more like a bug in the OS.

[ctitanic]

On Pocket PC it is on by default. Two, it slows down the device by about 10-20%.

Exactly

The status of the error-reporting feature depends of what OEM wants. In Axim x51v this feature comes ON by default and it slows down the device a lot. Just think about. All processes in your devices, every single program that you open is debugged by this feature. Add to this that many programs still not tested fully in WM5 and still have problems so this "error reporting feature" is triggered more often than what would be normal. The concept is good but the implementation is very poor.

So I disabled it since the first minute I turn it ON my x51v for the first time and believe me.... I noticed the huge difference in performance.

So I disagree in this case... My recommendation is to turn it OFF. If Microsoft wants a feed back all they need is to visit these forums more often ;)

[ctitanic]

Well, I've talked to Amit (the developer of PB) and he said, that it has to do something with signed or unsigned apps calling an unsigned dll (or...something like this, I'm sure he can explain it much better than I do). The funny thing is, that even that you get a "gwes.exe crashed etc." error, it has not really crashed at all, so this is more like a bug in the OS.

Exactly.... that's also a new feature implemented now in WM5.

check this out
http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/11/microsoft-security-initiatives.html

And these other two comments:
http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_x51v_archive.html
http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/11/error-reporting.html

The cost of signing applications is huge and will kill freewares and hobbyist developers. This security features stops antivirus and backup utilities for functioning correctly, and that's funny. Registry editors and tweakers, skin applications, today addins, even keyboards kind of programs are also affected by this problem/feature.

The simplest example of how this affect and application can be found in ozVGA and SE_VGA. These applications that were working fine in 2003SE can't work in WM5 unless a certification provided by Microsoft for Testing is used to sign all dlls and then installed in the device. Something that is illegal because this certification can be used only to test but not to be distributed in any application (even a freeware).

[ctitanic]

I mentioned in my previous post that even keyboard utilities are affected by the so called "Security features" added in WM5. And I'm sure that many of you are thinking "how is that".

Simple. For example, WordLogic (ipaqs owners I'm sure will remember it). This keyboard released a new version a few months ago after a long period of innactivity. This new version is supposed to be WM5 and it's but... In PPC2002, WM2003 and WM2003SE it can be set as the default Input Method (The one that appears by default after every soft reset) but this simple registry change fails in WM5. Why? Because the application or at least part of it is not digitally signed so the OS stops the dll to be loaded during the boot process. That simple. :x

[ctitanic]

Here is what another developer think about all this:


It's definitely a dark day and a pivotal point in the CE platform...Read on if you are a small developer.

We switched from Palm development to Windows CE development a few years ago for precisely this reason: that Palm put up too many barriers for developers. It's one of the reasons we predicted the Palm platform would die -- and this was back in their heyday (about 2001). We new Microsoft would win out because they made things so free and easy for developers. Its the rich and diverse choice of 3rd party apps, as much as the platform itself, that seems to drive the success of CE.

Now, however, Microsoft apparently thinks they have enough momentum and market share to pull back on the free development tools. Maybe they are right.

But the cost of a "legal" copy of VS2005 will now exceed the modest income some small developers make on their apps. It's going to drive a lot of good, solo programmers out of the CE platform for good.

But there is another problem. WM5.0 now has it's most intimate parts "locked" so that some apps require a signing certificate from Verisign in order to run. And to get a Verisign cert you have to buy signing tokens at $400 for a 10-pack. That means if you have a fairly comples app with several DLLs, .exes, etc., it's going to cost you hundreds of dollars for each version you release!

What's worse is that to even test the app on your device, you have to buy these signing tokens. You can try using the SDK cert to test on the emulator, but that only works on the emulator. You can't use it on the actual device. And you know the emulator can be useless for testing network apps. So you have to spend your precious, expensive certs just on test versions. You could easily run up hundreds if not thousands of dollars more at this point.

Oh I almost forgot...after you buy the Verisign tokens, you still can't get a privileged cert unless you go ask Microsoft to approve it. And for this they require you to first "logo certify" the app with a 3rd party test partner like QualityLogic. That's going to cost you another $500 bucks.

As bad as all the expense is, there may be a worse feature: developers now depend on Microsoft in order to survive. Because they can revoke your privileged cert at any time!

Security expert Bruce Schneier wrote about the dangers of forced signing way back in 2001. Just imagine if you desktop PC could only run signed apps. You would not be able to run any of the great freeware that independent developers put out. It would certainly kill much of Microsoft's market share in the PC space, and would drive consumers to Linux. In short, it's unthinkable. So why are they enforcing signing on the Windows Mobile platform, which is still young and less likely to withstand the blow?

As a small developer you are between a rock and a hard place. Windows Mobile development is now trapped between the prohibitive cost of VS2005, and the restrictive forced signing of WM5.0.

Slightly bigger companies will be able to survive. Many small developers won't. And when the smaller developers die out, there will be no pressure on bigger companies to write good software. Why should they? All their good competitors -- the independent developers -- are now out of business.
_________________
http://www.airscanner.com/
Winner -- Best Security Software 2005
Smartphone and Pocket PC Magazine

[bnycastro]

I have a dopod 838 and I have error reporting turned off. If some conflicts occur with an app I either contact the developer or just uninstall it.

[JamesStulz]

Regarding the Windows Error Reporting performance comments

If you are seeing the Windows Error Reporting dialog that means a program has crashed. The Windows Error Reporting feature is hooked into the exception processing mechanism of the OS (only triggered when an unhandled 2nd chance exception is caught) and so if you are not seeing the dialog, this feature does not affect the performance of your device.

If programs are crashing, they will continue to crash with or without reporting them to Microsoft. The benefit of the feature is to capture critical crash info that will help us narrow down the problem and fix them or forward them to the appropriate owners to fix.

You can find all of the details regarding the feature on MSDN, http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wcewatson5/html/wce50conerrorreportingoverview.asp.

James Stulz
Program Manager – Windows CE Tools
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

[ctitanic]

Regarding to your comment... :D

I understand that. But it takes a long time since the moment that the program crashed to the moment when you get the first screen of Doctor Watson. During that time you don't know what is happening and you don't have control of your Pocket PC. I have soft reseted the device a lot of time to save time.

In another hand, could not be that a program triggered the mechanism but did not fully crashed?

In my first week of using WM5 I tested a lot of programs and I found a lot of them no compatible with this new OS and the Windows Error Reporting was slowing down the whole process of finding what to install to replace what I was using in previous OS a lot.

[JamesStulz]

Processing the crash log does take some time. The time is dependant on the allocated size for the dump files set by the OEM. Usually, this is 300KB, which shouldn’t take much time at all.
Again, programs are crashing even if you don’t send the error but if you and others are sending the crash logs at least once, we will get the message, it just might not receive the same attention as ones that have higher hit counts.

A lot of times crashing programs just hang or misbehave (badly), isn’t the notification alone worth having it on? Simply say no to the upload if you think that’s what’s taking so much time and this way you know what programs are really crashing.

James Stulz
Program Manager – Windows CE Tools
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

[ctitanic]

again... it takes a long time since the moment that the program crash to the moment when the error reporting feature opens it's first screen. That's my own experience... Let's other speak about their experiences.

[Kris Kumar]

If you are seeing the Windows Error Reporting dialog that means a program has crashed. The Windows Error Reporting feature is hooked into the exception processing mechanism of the OS (only triggered when an unhandled 2nd chance exception is caught)

Thanks James for clarifying this one. That is awesome, this means that there is no performance drop. :rock on dude!:

[Kris Kumar]

For folks who are trying to access the link posted by James regarding Dr Watson on Windows CE platform, try this link

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wcewatson5/html/wce50conerrorreportingoverview.asp

(The full stop '.' at the end of the link posted by James is preventing the correct page from getting loaded) ;-)

[ctitanic]

Thanks James for clarifying this one. That is awesome, this means that there is no performance drop. :rock on dude!:

if you don't count the time spent in the whole process :D ;)

[Kris Kumar]

Let's other speak about their experiences.

I have had seen the "We're Sorry.." window only twice in the last three weeks. I have tried it turning it on and off, as mentioned earlier, I have not seen any slow down.

And regarding the report generation, since the applications on my Smartphone don't crash on a daily basis (BTW I do use a decent number of apps, 5 regular apps and couple of new apps as a trial install each week), I can't comment on the slow down. But then if the slow down is after the app has crashed and in report generation, I can wait. I think its good to know that an app has crashed.

[Kris Kumar]

Thanks James for clarifying this one. That is awesome, this means that there is no performance drop. :rock on dude!:

if you don't count the time spent in the whole process :D ;)

I think I can wait. ;-)

What I like about error reporting is that if there are applications running in the background then you will come to know if and when they crash. That kind of info can help if a critical app like Cingular Xpress Mail (syncs my mail) crashes, otherwise it will go un-noticed.

[ctitanic]

Well, I guess that you are one of the few that likes the process. :twisted:

[Mike Temporale]

If you are seeing the Windows Error Reporting dialog that means a program has crashed. The Windows Error Reporting feature is hooked into the exception processing mechanism of the OS (only triggered when an unhandled 2nd chance exception is caught)

Thanks James for clarifying this one. That is awesome, this means that there is no performance drop. :rock on dude!:

Ah, good. So I'm not crazy. I turned it off while reading this thread and I didn't notice any speed difference with the device. Mind you, I've yet to see a crash. Time to turn it back on and forget about it. :D

[Kris Kumar]

Even though I am recommending everyone to turn the Error Notification ON, I think the following category of Smartphone users should not turn it on:

If you are a developer and use the Smartphone/Pocket PC for development, then you should not turn it ON, it might hamper with your development and tests. I believe this is a correct assumption.

[ctitanic]

Guys, I apologize... You are right... and all we are wrong:

http://www.4winmobile.com/q-how-can-i-speed-up-wm5-vt406.html
http://www.wormholecreations.com.au/wc/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3915&amp;posts=1
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=104366
http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/board/view.php?newsid=388
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=18&amp;title=possible_fix_for_dell_axim_x51_x50_wm5_k&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1
http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=888491&amp;postcount=4
http://www.ppcsg.com/lofiversion/index.php/t63434.html
http://www.todopocketpc.com/foro/showthread.php?t=85352
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showpost.php?s=85667005ba9757f112d91535053de595&amp;p=177023&amp;postcount=21

8O ;)

[ctitanic]

Even though I am recommending everyone to turn the Error Notification ON, I think the following category of Smartphone users should not turn it on:

If you are a developer and use the Smartphone/Pocket PC for development, then you should not turn it ON, it might hamper with your development and tests. I believe this is a correct assumption.

Kris, the only way I would recommend to turn it on is when the user is not using WM5! :twisted:

I have been around since CE 2.11 (or Palm Size 2.11 - I miss my Cassiopeia e100) and so far this has been the worse OS update that I have survived.

[Mike Temporale]

Guys, I apologize... You are right... and all we are wrong:

Interesting... All of those links seem to be dealing with Pocket PC based devices. And most seem to be around the Axim x50 and x51 devices.

I can tell you from my own expereince - There was no noticable speed difference between having this feature turned on versus off. I have run with it on since I got the device late last year and turned it off when Kris posted this article. If it had been slowing my device down, you would think that I should have noticed some sort of speed increase in the last number of days. But, that wasn't the case. There is no difference. Sorry to disappoint. :wink: :)

[Mike Temporale]

Kris, the only way I would recommend to turn it on is when the user is not using WM5! :twisted:

I have been around since CE 2.11 (or Palm Size 2.11 - I miss my Cassiopeia e100) and so far this has been the worse OS update that I have survived.

WinMo5 was a very minor update for Smartphones. It was mainly focused at getting the Pocket PC closer to the Smartphone. As such, I think it caught a lot of users and developers off guard. I can't say it was the worst when it hardly changed anything on the Smartphone.

[ctitanic]

Kris, the only way I would recommend to turn it on is when the user is not using WM5! :twisted:

I have been around since CE 2.11 (or Palm Size 2.11 - I miss my Cassiopeia e100) and so far this has been the worse OS update that I have survived.

WinMo5 was a very minor update for Smartphones. It was mainly focused at getting the Pocket PC closer to the Smartphone. As such, I think it caught a lot of users and developers off guard. I can't say it was the worst when it hardly changed anything on the Smartphone.

you are right. it did not change things too much in SP but it did change a lot for worse in PPCs. Believe me.

[ctitanic]

you are right. it did not change things too much in SP but it did change a lot for worse in PPCs. Believe me.

re-thinking my last words... the bottom line is just one, the PPC platform will disappear shortly replaced by devices with phone capability. That's all and the main reason of these changes. Users like me that do not like the idea of having a PDA (YES A PDA) combined with a Phone will have a very hard time finding PDA-Alone kind of devices.

[Mike Temporale]

Pure speculation, but....

I don't see much future for plain-jane PDAs. I don't think they're going to disappear all together. We'll still see Zire-type devices, but there won't be the selection there is now, or was in the past.

It seems to be the direction the market is going. Connected devices are more popular and appeal to a wider audience. I don't know if this is best for consumers or not, just seems to be the trend I'm noticing. :?

[jfreiman]

I guess I'm one of the daring few to have this feature turned on... But I figure that if my phone is fast enough for me then it really doesn't matter if I have the reporting tool on or off.

That said, I had my first error report this morning...

tmail.exe

I have had my 2125 since last Fall and never had an error report - yea, I turned this feature on as soon as I saw it. Now this morning, a couple mornings after installing Papyrus' SBSH software, the only 3rd party app on my phone I have had on this phone.

Has anyone seen this app, tmail.exe, crash before? Could it be related to SBSH?

[ctitanic]

tmail is your inbox.