Java? Pigs Fly After One Year!

[Andy Sjostrom]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3392811' target='_blank'>http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3392811</a><br /><br /></div>Ever thought of Windows Mobile based Smartphones with Java support? I did <a href="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3918">one year ago</a>. I wrote in August 2003:<br />"Do I believe Microsoft would sell more Smartphones with Java support than without? Yes. Let me explain...". I then explained how I had reached to that opinion but had to conclude the article by sadly stating: "Take a look at last financial statement and learn that device license revenue is almost non-existent compared with revenues from platforms. Including a competing platform into its devices would send the wrong signal to the rest of the market and business."<br /><br />In other words: I believed that pigs would fly before Microsoft puts Java in their phones. My article was followed by a very interesting discussion. Recommended reading. Now it seems as if someone picked it up and lets those pigs fly after all! 8O <br /><br />According to this <a href="http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3392811">internetnews.com article</a> "Taiwan-based iaSolution introduced two new high-level mobile Java-compatible MS Windows Mobile handsets under the guidance of China Mobile. iaSolution is Sun's first wireless Java Technology (J2ME) licensee partner in China, which was first highlighted when it introduced J2ME Technology's newest MIDP2.0 version and successfully passed the China Mobile test."<br /><br />It is not clear how these pieces fit together. It might not be the case that Microsoft licenses Java or that Microsoft actually installs Java anywhere near the Smartphone ROM image. Instead, it is more likely that one carrier (Chine Mobile) has requested Java support to be included in their branded Smartphones and that one specific device maker (iaSolution) installs the Java runtimes in RAM before shipping the devices to the carrier. I don't know if this is a correct assumption, but regardless it does look like some Smartphones will actually ship with Java support and that Microsoft has not veto'ed.<br /><br />I find this very, very interesting and I do ask myself what Microsoft needs to do to get .NET Compact Framework and Windows CE more popular among device software developers and carriers.

[TANKERx]

I would have thought that Microsoft has a great struggle because it is selling a whole package which cannot be separated; OS and .NetCF, whereas if a device manufacturer wants to implement Java, it can choose to run Java on Symbian, Palm or even its own proprietary OS and now, from what you say, maybe even Windows Mobile.

Java looks less threatening at the moment and, until Microsoft manages to convince people that it isn't the nasty backstabber that the market (and its reputation) says it is, it's going to have keep on funding it's loss-making mobile division from WindowsXP and Office.

[Mr.Phil]

Just as a sidebar, Tao Group does make a Java platform for Windows Smartphone 2003. The best thing is that is comes pre-installed on the Sierra Wireless Voq Phone! :D Now I can run the same apps on several different phones... incredible.

Which brings me to my next point. The code once, run anywhere premise is what makes Java go round. .Net is code once, run on Windows.... hmmm..so when it comes to smartphones, you can run it on.... windows smartphones... instead of on my Motorola, Nokia, Voq, as I can with Java.

finally, with .Net and smartphone the first thing that has to be done is provide better access and feature sets for .Net CF. Time after time, people go back to eVC++ to get functions that can't be accessed in .Net

[rbrome]

:? Don't the MiTAC 8380, 8390, Motorola MPx220, and Sierra Voq all include Java support?

[Hooked]

Whoo hoo!!Like I said last year, I still think putting Java on a Windows Mobile phone is a smart move.Having both Java and .NET CF on the same phone makes it that much more versatile.Case in point, the Motorola MPx220 versus the Nokia 6260. Two phones with similar specs (the 220 having a slightly better package with more advanced camera and external display, but Mini-SD for expansion....boooo...)

I was ambivalent about which phone to choose.But, the MPx220 has BOTH Java MIDP2.0 and .NET CF. I don't have to give up any of my current applications to switch (except one which uses proprietary Nokia extensions to the JVM, but I can hopefully adapt it fairly easily).And I can use .NET CF on my smartphone for several applications which are currently on my Pocket PC..NET CF is more robust, giving access to native function calls, which Java J2ME, because of the lack of JNI functionality, doesn't provide.But, Java is almost ubiquitous for small devices, and there are a lot more programs available for it.

If the MPx220 lives up to its specs and is competitive on price point with similar Symbian (and possibly Linux based) phones, it has the potential to make significant in roads in the smartphone market.(The MPx200 and SCH-i600 simply didn't have enough features to justify jumping from Symbian to Windows Mobile)And if people switch and start using .NET CF apps as well as Java, they're likely to be hesitant about switching back if it means giving up functionality.

If I were Microsoft, I'd require Windows Mobile and CE devices to carry a Java JVM.Instead of having to sell people on the idea that .NET CF can provide similar functionality as Java, you sidestep the whole issue. You spend your time showing them what Windows Mobile and .NET CF can do that Java cannot.You spend your effort streamlining the vertical integration of the smartphone with the pda, desktop, and server OS and applications, where MS has much more power and which is still their bread'n'butter.From a marketing standpoint it makes the whole label of a "Java Phone" moot.Instead of Windows Mobile phones being "NOT a Java Phone", they become "not JUST another Java phone".

Here we are a year later and we are just now on the verge of the competition truly beginning....

[Kris Kumar]

:? Don't the MiTAC 8380, 8390, Motorola MPx220, and Sierra Voq all include Java support?

I thought so too :?

The Smartphone carriers/manufacturers currently have custom applications (PhotoID, File Explorer etc) installed in the ROM. Won't JVM also work as or be installed as any other custom app? Does it require special plumbing?

As for Microsoft not mandating JVM or J2ME, I think it is smart move. Why should they actively support a competitor, one which is currently well entrenched in the cellphone (mobile games) market. Supporting JVM means accepting that there is some limitation in .NET CF (there are but I am sure JVM has some big ones too) and will also affect the future the acceptance of .NET CF, something that they are trying to promote aggressively. And by keeping quiet, carriers who badly need it or manufacturers who see that as a good option can put it on their models.

[Arne Hess]

:? Don't the MiTAC 8380, 8390, Motorola MPx220, and Sierra Voq all include Java support?
Yes, they do!
I find this very, very interesting and I do ask myself what Microsoft needs to do to get .NET Compact Framework and Windows CE more popular among device software developers and carriers.
There is a simple reason why Java MIDP2.0 is so successful: it's platform independent which .Net CF isn't.
Therefore, a carrier have to launch one - let's say - games platform which is based on MIDP2.0 and a lot of mobile phones, from different brands can download and use these applications.
If carriers launch a .NET CF platform it's nice, if they also have a CE 4.x device in the portfolio, if not it's useless!

At least on the handsets, Java became what Sun was dreaming about when they created Java: a platform independent environment which .NET (CF) can't become or do your think Symbian/Nokia is licensing .NET from MSFT? ;-)

Last but not least: the MIDP2.0 games I've tested on my MPx220 worked pretty well and this adds another benefit too the device: more flexibility since I don't want to live in a wallet garden (not carrier walled nor MSFT walled ;-)).

[freitasm]

The news here is this is the first couple of Smartphone with Java certified by China Mobile. These are not the first ones with Java, as pointed out. I actually saw a HTC Tanager running Windows Mobile 2003 and Java applications back in July 2003, a couple of months before the official announcement of WM 2003. Those were a few Smartphones being used to test compatibility with Vodafone Live! here in New Zealand.

[Kris Kumar]

Found this interesting page on the internet..MPx220 and Java.

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=71