Are we deluded? WM7 WTF???

[bdcotton]

All

My HTC HD2 was stolen yesterday and so I took my long-overdue upgrade and got an HD7.

Beautiful phone, great interface etc....

....BUT.....

....I am a very long time user of PDAs (Psion anyone?) and thus old-fashioned in what I expect from a PDA but in fact my needs are very simple.

I need:

- it to work as a telephone (ie I can have my outlook records on there and do old-fashioned things like pick it up and call people)
- it to work to store my contact information for business
- GPS navigation
- play music
- read books

and that is mostly all.

Within 24 hours of WM7 I want to throw the thing in the dustbin because Microsoft have COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DROPPED THE BALL. what is the point in having much of the world using outlook on desktop and not be able to sync outlook with your telephone? This is insane.

Then I find that there is no GPS software that works (sorry google maps is fine but navigating across Europe? I think not). and then none of the software that I have acquired through 10 years of WM use works on WM7 and nobody seems too interested in updating. The overwhelming response from support people in the past 24 hours is that they are not interested in WM7 and that I should go back to 6.5 (if I must) or buy Apple or Google. How on earth can the largest gorilla in the jungle get it so completely and utterly wrong and actively sek to drive its users to its biggest competitors?

Now I know Active sync was a pain and that WM6.5 was not great, but, come on guys, WM7 may look pretty but it is completely and utterly useless - unless you live life in a cloud and want to spend a fortune on constant stream of data downloads. which I don't.

I hate the way that Apple and Google do business, but at least they seem to want my business. Microsoft deserve to go the way of Psion, Palm etc - they are completely and utterly unaware and we are completely and utterly deluded to keep supporting them in the hope that they eventually decide to do something right.

As a test I got some of my "last millenium" kit out in an attempt to see what we were missing back then and actually they all fired up, most of the phones worked better and everything that I wanted them to do was done with the minimum of fuss, just not as many pixels and animations. the only thing missing was Kindle (which I love), but mobipocket, ereader etc all worked fine (and looked almost exactly the same).

Sorry, but I think we are mad to persist with this addictive habit: my family will now navigate through Europe this weekend using a phone that is at least 5 years old, but can actually do what I bought it for.

[Sven Johannsen]

Don't take this wrong, but ya shoulda done a little research. WP7 has been out for almost 6 months now and try as they might to hide it, the cloud basis for PIM information has actually leaked out. This should by no means have been a surprise at this point. Hopefully a sales associate didn't lie to you.

Once converted to the concept, I actually find it very convenient. All my syncing is now done with very liitle intervention. It doesn't need to chew up cell data, it works over WiFi and passthrough via PC/Zune too. It only happens when it needs to, but it happens pretty much right then, not when I get home and sync. I can sit at Starbucks and add a contact or calender entry and that item is sync'd to my PC at home, accesible on the web at work, and on my iPhone without me doing a thing. I lost a little here, but gained a lot.

Absolutely agree on the GPS stuff, but that is an ISV problem, until MS decides to produce Pocket Streets for WP, which they should. I too am waiting for TomTom, CoPilot, Navigon to deliver some decent off-line map nav solution. But again, there not being such an animal is not very well hidden.

There really is very little shortage of information on the web about what WP7 does not do. That in fact is the majority of what is posted it seems, as complaining seems much more satisfying than complimenting.

Sorry about your HD2, BTW. Great device. I hear it runs WP7 well ;)

[bdcotton]

Sven

Many thanks for your comments. I guess you are right, but I needed a phone very fast and (unfortunately) assumed that Microsoft would have made some attempts to create a usable operating system, particularly given how long WM7 took to arrive.

I'll now have to have a go at cloud, but I don't like it....

[Sven Johannsen]

Sven

Many thanks for your comments. I guess you are right, but I needed a phone very fast and (unfortunately) assumed that Microsoft would have made some attempts to create a usable operating system, particularly given how long WM7 took to arrive.

I'll now have to have a go at cloud, but I don't like it.... Try not to decide you don't like it up front. Honestly, I wasn't crazy about the idea either, and there are some legitimate reasons this wouldn't be the way to go. For many folks though, and many of these are what MS was targetting, the cloud was already their basis, maybe without even realizing it. (Google, Windows Live, Yahoo) I've really come to enjoy that aspect, even though the transition was aggravating. That was because I was kicking and screaming. ;)

I think you will find WP7 actually very usable. There are some rough spots because of what you (I) was used to, but there is typically a way to do something. For many, better ways are coming, though the timeline likely won't excite anyone. Everyone wants it yesterday, so they are already behind.

If you come upon some 'how the hell do I?" questions, ask, or search, here or here (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp7)

[bdcotton]

Thanks again Sven

an update: having driven the length of Europe and back I have two things to report:

1. WM7 is very pretty and I like having Kindle
2. Everything that I normally use a phone for - calling people, satnav etc was done on a 5 year old phone

this doesn't seem right. the new gadget is just a pretty, but frankly unnecessary toy. the five year old product delivers

[Sven Johannsen]

Gotta give you credit for giving it a shot. No response for the lack of decent Nav software, except that it is a fairly significant investment for the ISV, so isn't going to be one of the first things produced for a new platform. Mine works fine as a phone, that is probably the least mine is used for, so different use patterns, different impressions. Maybe it's do what you need in a year, maybe you won't care at that point.

[55Kevy]

I'm glad to see this thread. I have been a fairly long-time PDA user (HP Jornada was my first) who has resisted a converged device until now. My current PDA, HP iPAQ 210, has developed a power leak that I cannot repair and so I am considering how to move to a smartphone. From the reviews I've been impressed with HTC's product and so was considering an HD7D. However, what I've learned from these forums makes me wonder....

I use the PDA primarily to:
- Keep my calendar and contacts synced between PDA, work PC, and home PC. I use PI to manage my PIM data.
- Sync my work email so that I can access it outside the office.
- Track password and other important info using eWallet.
- Formerly to read books (eReader) but now use a Kindle.
- Play occasional games.

Will I be able to sync contacts and calendar between work, home, and phone using Windows Live? I realize this community likely can't answer the question, but my employer is very serious about information protection and I wonder if I'll be able to export my contacts and calendar info to Windows Live - guess I'll have to try.

I look forward to your thougths.

Kevy

[Sven Johannsen]

I use the PDA primarily to:
- Keep my calendar and contacts synced between PDA, work PC, and home PC. I use PI to manage my PIM data.This one requires a book. I will assume you use Outlook. WP7 does not sync with Outlook on the desktop. The only thing it syncs with on the desktop is media, and it can actually do that via WiFi (after the first time). Back to Calendar and Contacts. WP7 syncs with online PIM solutions, Hotmail, Yahoo, Google, that sort of thing. Also Exchange. MS does provide a very nice Outlook connector to 'Hotmail', or rather Windows Live. It doesn't take much setup to do a bulk copy and paste of Calendar and Contact entries from where they are now in Outlook, to the Windows Live connected section. You point Windows Phone at the on line Live account. Now your phone, the web account and Outlook on your PC are all synchronized. You can make changes in any of those locations and the change is seen at the others, WITHOUT you connecting anything up. It's done over Wifi or the cell network. Cooler than that I have two WP7s, an iPhone and a laptop pointed at Live as well. They are all updated too. It takes a little to setup and maybe to get used to, but once you do, it is so much better than ActiveSync or WMDC. You unfortunately don't get Notes or Tasks, though the later may be coming at some point. Notes are effectively replaced by OneNote on the device and OneNote on the web. If you have it on your PC, so much the better, it will sync, though the fidelity isn't 100%. There are things WP7 OneNote doesn't support.
- Sync my work email so that I can access it outside the office. If you are using Exchange, definately. It does also work with PoP3 or IMAP accounts. Live mail works with Axchange ActiveSync BTW so it acts much like an Exchange account, with push capability and folder support and everything.
- Track password and other important info using eWallet.Ilium does make eWalletGo for WP7. It is a bit of a kludge IMHO, since it doesn't 'sync'. You can export your current EWallet info into a special file which can be 'restored' to the phone. It gives you all the info, but if you tend to make changes on the phone copy, there is presently no way to 'sync' that back to the PC. It does give me what I need. Been an eWallet user forever.
- Formerly to read books (eReader) but now use a Kindle.Kindle app works great on WP7 and syncs your place, in case you are standing in line at the DMV and don't have the Kindle ;)
- Play occasional games. Games we got covered, but I won't guarantee every one of you favorites is available. To see what is out there, download and install the ZUNE software on your PC and check the app store. You might actually find you like the Zune interface as a media platform.

I bit the bullet years ago on a converged device. Didn't think I really wanted a PDA and phone glued together. Fact is I used a phone so infrequently, but had to have it, I found it nice to not have to worry about two devices all the time, or faced with leaving the PDA at home when pocket space was limited. My only gripe is the radios using up power continuously so you just never get the batterry life with a converged device that you used to with just a PDA. You get used to it though, and you can turn the radios off. The other drawback with a converged device, assuming you get service for it, the carriers will make you get a data plan, which can be a bit pricey. You can actually make good use out of an HD7, or the like, using just WiFi and a voice plan, but that's sometimes hard to establish. I did it with an off contract HD7, and a T-Mobile Pay-As-You-Go SIM. I just leave the cell data turned off in the settings. I can make calls and do everything web-ish via WiFi, inluding e-mail, browsing, all that stuff. My main phone is an AT&T Focus with a normal smartphone plan. It's unfortunate that here in the US the models tend to be carrier specific. I think I kind of like the HD7 a little better, but we've been an AT&T Family forever (5 devices on plan).

Hope that helps.

[55Kevy]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Sven. Since I made my original post I've noodled around with Windows Live and have synced with my personal computer. Unfortunately, where I am now, my employer won't allow installing applications on my work computer. I'll be changing locations shortly, though, and suspect that the new location will have more relaxed admin rights. My key goal is to keep my outlook calendar synced between work and home, along with contacts. If I read you correctly, I'll be able to sync contacts as well as calendar (have just done calendar so far - did the contacts with a .csv export/import). And yes, my employer uses exchange - however they're big on Blackberries, which I prefer not to use, so we'll see. A lot will depend on my change in job/location. But I think I'm ready to take the plunge...

Kevy

[Sven Johannsen]

My key goal is to keep my outlook calendar synced between work and home, along with contacts.
Kevy
That will actually be a bit tricky with Exchange at work and something else at home. Here is why. The phone is an Exchange client, it directly accesses your account on the server, mail, contacts, calendar, and displays them in the appropriate places. If you have hotmail, or live, or yahoo, at home, even if you are accessing it with Outlook, that is a seperate account and the phone can display that as well. The phone actually links to the account though, not Outlook. The accounts are displayed together, all the contacts in a list, all the calendars on one view (identified by color). They are however kept seperate. It is not like windows mobile where if you sync'd with one copy of Outllook (work) and a second (home), all the entries would wind up on both. WP keeps them distinct. I think a lot of folks want(ed) that, keeping their personal stuff off their work machine and vice versa.

[liljohn]

I use Live (Hotmail) for my personal email and Exchange at work. I quite like how the phone manages these. It actually made me take action and clean them up them up seperating the work and person stuff better. After I exported the list from exchange and imported them to live, Live was able to merge all the duplicates.

HTH,
~lj.