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View Full Version : WP7 Update Limbo: Is Your Carrier Blocking the Update?


Richard Chao
02-22-2011, 10:30 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/thread/f28b13c4-97dc-4930-a996-a8a3f2c4430d' target='_blank'>http://social.answers.microsoft.com...96-a8a3f2c4430d</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Some Mobile Operators have the right to skip one update if they wish. However, they can't skip the next one, which would be an acumulative update and would include the previous one. So if your mobile operator decided to block this one, you will be getting the early March one (which will include the Feb one too)." &nbsp;- Diego T. (Microsoft&nbsp;WP7&nbsp;Support)</em></p><p><em><img height="450" src="http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt67/Logic1914/denied.gif" style="border: 0;" width="450" /></em></p><p>Still haven't gotten the notification for your first WP7 update? &nbsp;There is a possibility your carrier may have exercised their right to block this update. &nbsp;That's right, carriers have the right to block updates for one cycle. &nbsp;This means if they did in fact block this first update, they will have to give you the next one. &nbsp;This also means if they give you this one, they can hold NoDo until the update after that. &nbsp;Updates are cumulative so when the next one comes it will include any previous updates. &nbsp;So the upside is you will get an update. &nbsp;The downside is your carrier definitely has a say in the schedule.</p>

efjay
02-22-2011, 10:50 PM
Probably doing this so they can then block the big Fall update till the next one hits in 2012 by which time newer devices would have appeared and then they will "encourage" people to upgrade as those ones will have the latest update.

I wouldnt mind but in the US there is no unlocked device available to buy so you are stuck with whatever T-mo or at&t decide (and i suspect they are both blocking this first update) - at least until Nokia enters the game with their Penta-band devices, then I will say goodbye to the greedy US carriers and their useless lock in mentality.

MadSci
02-22-2011, 11:28 PM
;) Why wait for AT&T? Currently running NRG WM6.5 on my Telstra HD2 and other than waste my time on XBox Live, I can do everything an HD7 can, + all the stuff in this update + all the stuff in the next update + the stuff in... :p

MadSci


Probably doing this so they can then block the big Fall update till the next one hits in 2012 by which time newer devices would have appeared and then they will "encourage" people to upgrade as those ones will have the latest update.

I wouldnt mind but in the US there is no unlocked device available to buy so you are stuck with whatever T-mo or at&t decide (and i suspect they are both blocking this first update) - at least until Nokia enters the game with their Penta-band devices, then I will say goodbye to the greedy US carriers and their useless lock in mentality.

Fritzly
02-22-2011, 11:37 PM
Here we are: WM 6.XXX saga all over again........

efjay: you could buy a device not locked to a carrier in the US too through Expansys; the problem is that it seems that no WP7 device is really "SIM free" but just "unlocked".

Take a look at MS NGs about the issues people who spent €400/500 are having to use MMS.
I hope that MS and OEM will start to release true "SIM free" devices soon, if not they will be in trouble....

efjay
02-23-2011, 12:28 AM
Here we are: WM 6.XXX saga all over again........

efjay: you could buy a device not locked to a carrier in the US too through Expansys; the problem is that it seems that no WP7 device is really "SIM free" but just "unlocked".

Take a look at MS NGs about the issues people who spent €400/500 are having to use MMS.
I hope that MS and OEM will start to release true "SIM free" devices soon, if not they will be in trouble....

I dont think those are true carrier independent devices, at least I'm not sure enough that it justifies the extra cost. If a device that was not offered by the US carriers was available then it would be sure to be completely free of any carrier influence. As I am on T-Mobile however, the odds of an unlocked AWS device are slim, which is why I am eagerly waiting for the first Nokia to be released. Either purchased direct from Nokia or imported that will be sure to be a completely unlocked device. For the next few months I'll suffer under the carriers and when Nokia hits the scene I'll switch from my current phone.

Don Tolson
02-23-2011, 12:49 AM
Hmmmmm, maybe I misunderstand the update process. I thought that this version was an update to the update program and that we were waiting for this to show up through the Zune interface on the PC. How could a carrier block that? I can understand them blocking huge updates from occuring OTA, but if it's coming through the Zune interface on the interweb, what's that got to do with the carrier?:confused:

Fritzly
02-23-2011, 01:05 AM
Hmmmmm, maybe I misunderstand the update process. I thought that this version was an update to the update program and that we were waiting for this to show up through the Zune interface on the PC. How could a carrier block that? I can understand them blocking huge updates from occuring OTA, but if it's coming through the Zune interface on the interweb, what's that got to do with the carrier?:confused:

Well it seems that contrary to what was initially announced by MS both OEM and carriers can decide to block an update. It also appears that, at least the carriers, will only be able to block one upgrade and not the next one but considering what seems to be MS pace in pushing updates out I am beginning to be quite unhappy about the entire story.

And yes I do not understand too how is it possible that an upgrade that only "prepare" the device to receive future updates can be blocked; I mean what is the point to do this?

Nelson Ocampo
02-23-2011, 01:39 AM
Hmmmmm, maybe I misunderstand the update process. I thought that this version was an update to the update program and that we were waiting for this to show up through the Zune interface on the PC. How could a carrier block that? I can understand them blocking huge updates from occuring OTA, but if it's coming through the Zune interface on the interweb, what's that got to do with the carrier?:confused:

It's a contractual agreement that allows carriers to block up to one update cycle. They are not forcibly blocking the update process through some technological means.

But I don't think that the carriers are blocking this mini-update. My guess is that this update is a test run for the real update. And they are rolling this out slowly so that they could spot and fix issues that may come up.

Jason Dunn
02-23-2011, 03:20 AM
But I don't think that the carriers are blocking this mini-update. My guess is that this update is a test run for the real update. And they are rolling this out slowly so that they could spot and fix issues that may come up.

Exactly. Any speculation that this update is being blocked by carriers is just that - speculation. We'll have to wait another day or two to see.

virain
02-23-2011, 08:50 AM
I don't understand what carriers have to do with the update as it is done with the Zune not OTA. I don't remember AT&T or T-Mo blocking, or refusing update for Android, although they try to stuff the update with as much of their crapware as humanly possible, and when is that AT&T refused iPhone update? My believe is that it is just a test run for MS. once they fix the problem with bricking devices, it will be rolled out in full force.

Don Tolson
02-23-2011, 06:40 PM
OK, I guess I didn't explain myself well enough last time, since the conversation still seems to be around how carriers can 'block' the update.

a) Yes, I can understand how carriers could block the notification of an update available on the phone itself (under the Settings option). And, if the update were happening Over-the-Air, I could see how they could block that as well.

HOWEVER

b) I thought I read somewhere (and maybe I was confused with the 'big' update) that the new software would only come through the Zune interface running on a PC connected to the internet. Thus, you could only update the phone by connecting it to a PC, running Zune, and using its Check for Updates option. If this is the case, there would be no way (I would think) for a carrier to 'block' the update, since it is occurring over the internet, not over the cellular data network.

Maybe this mini-update is phone-specific and is being used to test the OTA update capability?

Nelson Ocampo
02-23-2011, 08:20 PM
OK, I guess I didn't explain myself well enough last time, since the conversation still seems to be around how carriers can 'block' the update.

a) Yes, I can understand how carriers could block the notification of an update available on the phone itself (under the Settings option). And, if the update were happening Over-the-Air, I could see how they could block that as well.

HOWEVER

b) I thought I read somewhere (and maybe I was confused with the 'big' update) that the new software would only come through the Zune interface running on a PC connected to the internet. Thus, you could only update the phone by connecting it to a PC, running Zune, and using its Check for Updates option. If this is the case, there would be no way (I would think) for a carrier to 'block' the update, since it is occurring over the internet, not over the cellular data network.

Maybe this mini-update is phone-specific and is being used to test the OTA update capability?

Maybe "block" is not the right word when it comes to clarity.

MS has an agreement with carriers that will allow them to put an update on hold for customers who are using their service. They could tell Microsoft to hold an update for up to one cycle.

If your phone is tied to that carrier, it won't update. Zune likely recognizes phones that are tied to specific carriers.

Again, I doubt that's the case with this current update.

Don Tolson
02-23-2011, 08:46 PM
Maybe "block" is not the right word when it comes to clarity.

MS has an agreement with carriers that will allow them to put an update on hold for customers who are using their service. They could tell Microsoft to hold an update for up to one cycle.

If your phone is tied to that carrier, it won't update. Zune likely recognizes phones that are tied to specific carriers.

Again, I doubt that's the case with this current update.

Hmmm, I still don't get it.

Connecting/updating through Zune has NOTHING to do with the carriers. How could they affect the update?

I could see it though, if your phone must receive notification of an update first through the cellular data connection, then connect to Zune to actually recieve it, but that seems a bit overly complex. And that would effectively screw anyone like Jason and I who have unlocked phones operating on a network that doesn't recognize the units.

Fritzly
02-23-2011, 09:25 PM
Hmmm, I still don't get it.

Connecting/updating through Zune has NOTHING to do with the carriers. How could they affect the update?

I could see it though, if your phone must receive notification of an update first through the cellular data connection, then connect to Zune to actually recieve it, but that seems a bit overly complex. And that would effectively screw anyone like Jason and I who have unlocked phones operating on a network that doesn't recognize the units.

Well we are talking about WP7 here not WM: WP7 is as lock down as the iPhone so there are a lot of ways for carriers to interdict the device to "see" a certain update unless, for example, the update does not have a specific receptor that trigger the phone.

As for "SIM free" phones this a question I have been wondering since the launch of WP7........

Once I bought an iPhone 3, I got it in Europe and really "Factory SIM free"; when I came back here I was able to use it with my local provider with no issues whatsoever. What is interesting is that one day I tried to use it with my wife carrier: AT&T. Not only it was working perfectly but I was also able to use MMS, something that all the iPhone sold in the US were not able to do for a long time because AT&T blocked that functionality.

dr_doak
02-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Hmmm, I still don't get it.

Connecting/updating through Zune has NOTHING to do with the carriers. How could they affect the update?

I could see it though, if your phone must receive notification of an update first through the cellular data connection, then connect to Zune to actually recieve it, but that seems a bit overly complex. And that would effectively screw anyone like Jason and I who have unlocked phones operating on a network that doesn't recognize the units.


If Microsoft accepted a contract that allows carriers the option to skip an update (assuming the next one is cumulative) and they handle all of the backend for WP7 patching, then they will have built a check into the update process. No reason the Zune software can't ask the phone which carrier it belongs to and relay that to the update server, which can then act upon it.

That said, I'd like AT&T to resist the urge to **** with a phone update just once. Not sure they can though, I think it's instinctual... Of course, I'd rather they opt to skip this one and then be forced to roll out March's update ;). I can only imagine that MS had to be a little bit nice to the carriers to get the best product launch, so we got this hybrid of "updates must go out" and carriers being able to block everything all wily-nily.

Jason Dunn
02-23-2011, 09:44 PM
I could see it though, if your phone must receive notification of an update first through the cellular data connection, then connect to Zune to actually recieve it, but that seems a bit overly complex. And that would effectively screw anyone like Jason and I who have unlocked phones operating on a network that doesn't recognize the units.

Agreed. But I think it's probably more that the carriers couldn't block the update without Microsoft's help. The Zune software is capable of detecting device type, and geographic location, so if Microsoft wanted to deny the update to everyone in Canada that's using a Bell LG Quantum, they could.

I'm not buying that they ARE just yet though...

Nelson Ocampo
02-23-2011, 10:22 PM
Hmmm, I still don't get it.

Connecting/updating through Zune has NOTHING to do with the carriers. How could they affect the update?

I could see it though, if your phone must receive notification of an update first through the cellular data connection, then connect to Zune to actually recieve it, but that seems a bit overly complex. And that would effectively screw anyone like Jason and I who have unlocked phones operating on a network that doesn't recognize the units.

From what I understand, non-carrier locked phones will update fine.

I'm not sure what the technical aspects are that allow Zune to identify a carrier-locked phone. But it's also likely something that carriers demanded in order to carry the product.