Why Won't Rogers Wireless Sell Me a Windows Phone 7?

[Jason Dunn]

<p><img height="346" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/wpt/auto/1289244885.usr1.jpg" width="600" /></p><p>I'm not sure what the launch of Windows Phone 7 has been like in your part of the world, but in Canada I'm finding myself extremely frustrated with how hard it is to get my hands on one of these new phones. I've been with Rogers Wireless since 2008, originally getting a Samsung Jack (Blackjack II), and am due for a hardware upgrade. I've been using the HTC HD2 since this time last year, chugging along at 2G speeds (yeah, feel my pain!), and after using the prototype Windows Phone 7 hardware a few weeks ago, I desperately want to move to the new platform. <MORE /></p><p>The Samsung Focus was <a href="http://windowsphonethoughts.com/news/show/101091/samsung-focus-now-available-from-rogers-canada.html" target="_blank">announced on Rogers' Website</a> on November the 8th, so I assumed that within a few days I'd be able to buy one. I started calling local wireless stores, expecting to find one easily. I was surprised when, at three different stores (one of them an official Rogers-run store), I was told that not only did they not have this new phone, but they weren't expected to have it for weeks. WEEKS? I phoned Rogers' online sales team, and they informed me that they didn't have the Samsung Focus available to them for customer hardware upgrades - only customers signing up on a new contract could get the phone. WHAT? Since the 8th, I've been calling every couple of days, and as of today (the 23rd), no retail stores have the phone - I've been by at the "end of the month" the phone will be available at retail. There aren't even demo phones in retail stores for customers to look at.</p><p>When I pressed a customer service rep on the issue, she told me that Rogers only ordered a small number of Samsung Focus phones, which is why they're only for new customers. She indicated that by the end of the month the retail stores should be getting their allocation of this phone, and I should be able to buy it then.</p><p>That's why <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20022373-75.html" target="_blank">articles like this one tick me off</a>; there's an assumption out there that everyone is able to buy a Windows Phone 7, but if my experience is any indication, not all of Microsoft's carrier partners decided to support this new platform in a big way - Rogers in particular seems very committed to the iPhone and Android, and decided to sabotage the launch of Windows Phone 7. Too strong of a word? I can't think of a better one to describe the scenario where your go-to-market partner decides not to make your product available for sale until almost a month after it launches.</p><p>How are you faring in getting a Windows Phone 7 device? Vote in the poll below and let me know in the comments.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><script src="http://static.polldaddy.com/p/4137806.js" type="text/javascript"></script></p>

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Local launch is supposed to be today. Unfortunately only one carrier in Malaysia is going to be offering WP7, and the only model available is the HD7 (I'm more interested in the Focus). Not exactly a lot of choice here, and no idea on what stocks will actually be available.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

We got it earlier than you
We got it earlier than you
We got it earlier than you
Locked devices are illegal too

I'd ship one over to you Jason, but unfortunately we don't use the same bands!

[jdmountford]

I feel your pain. I work for Sprint and don't even have a clue when we are going to cary one.

[Fritzly]

This seems weird; it reminds me when I bought my first Toshiba Tablet: they were in high demand and a CompUSA bloody idiot rep tried to say that I could have bought one only buying a 3 Service contract with them, I called Toshiba on the spot and the requirement was dropped at once.

I bought a HD7 the day it launched at a T-Mobile store in Miami, they had plenty of them and no people in line; after a week I returned it because I was not convinced about the hardware and bought a Focus through Expansys because AT&T did not want to unlock the phone in spite of the fact I was paying the full price.

Anyway considering that now AT&T offer to people that walk in a store and buy an HTC Surround, a LG Quantum or a Samsung Focus another same devices for free I guess there is no shortage.
Only requirement is to sigh two separate two years contracts.

Now I am not familiar with Rogers but it might be possible that they were trying to force people who wanted to be early adopter to get in a new, maybe more expensive, contract.

[wetworker]

I was able to get one, I ordered mine from their online store the day after the launch, on the day of the launch I went to about three stores and all three had no clue. The TELUS store next door to the Rogers store in Yorkdale mall had the HTC surround live and in living colour.

The fallowing day I tried doing a hardware upgrade but I’m no eligible until Feb of next year, while I was on the phone with the sales rep she was trying to sell me an Android phone, saying windows OS is not good and it’s old. I then told her that this platform as it stands at version one is As as good as the iphone and android or even better.

Based on that exchange and the stores I visited I would have to agree with you about Rogers and their willingness to embrace this new platform, because the people working for them were sending me all over the place, I can imagine if I was just an ordinary person I would have given up and got something else

With that said, my two week of using this phone has been nothing but pure joy. Check out some of my PICKS (http://twitpic.com/398kyq/full)

Btw I bought mine out of contract and I haven’t regretted it. WP7FTW!!!!!

[gglazer]

I ended up switching from Bell to Telus because Bell didn't have a Win7 phone. I'm really happy with the switch though. I've been on the old PPC OS since '99 so I'm really happy with the changes. I highly recommend the LG Optimus 7. Best phone I've had or managed ever, hands down.

The rep at the Telus store told me they were selling them like crazy too.


Geordie

[Duncan]

that's why <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20022373-75.html" target="_blank">articles like this one tick me off</a>; there's an assumption out there that everyone is able to buy a Windows Phone 7, but if my experience is any indication, not all of Microsoft's carrier partners decided to support this new platform

Articles like that tick me off because they keep unfavourably comparing sales for a version one OS in the US alone (based on one reported anonymous source) to worldwide sales and presales for the now many years matured iPhone and Android OSes.

I don't know what the real sales situation is, and if shortages of product are as severe as they appear in places, but neither do any of the staggeringly poor journos who seem unable to wait for real info before rushing to judgement, or grasp that they aren't even managing to compare like with like anyway.


typed on my lovely Samsung Omnia 7 :)

[Darius Wey]

How are you faring in getting a Windows Phone 7 device?

Absolutely no problems here in Australia. I walked into Telstra on October 21 and walked out with an unlocked HTC 7 Mozart. They've backed and continue to back the iPhone, Android, and BlackBerry in big ways, and Windows Phone 7 isn't any different -- billboards, bus stand ads, TV ads, online ads, store banners, you name it. The other carriers such as Optus and Vodafone tend not to campaign as heavily, though they've had Windows Phone 7 devices available for a number of weeks now.

Whether you want one on contract or want one outright, it's a walk in the park. All with the added bonus of being unlocked, too.

[Adan Galvan]

There has not been a real shortage problem here in Chicago. I was waiting for the Dell Venue Pro but got so frustrated with all of the delays and news regarding faulty units that I decided to pick up the HD7. I may return it to take part in the BOGO deals this weekend, but so far I am really happy with the purchase!

[dragonbait]

I was just a little surprised at your article about your post regarding how difficult it is to get this phone as an existing customer.. I am in no way pleased at how Rogers has handled this launch, and while I did not get my phone on the 8th like I was hoping, I did have it ON the 12th.

Using Rogers' broken website on the 8th, I tried to upgrade my phone, but it was not listed. I did what everyone else did, call stores, call the reps, talk to everyone I could. And no answers. On the 9th I logged back into My Rogers account and tried once again to upgrade and the Samsung Focus mysteriously appeared and I quickly upgraded.

3 days later, I had the phone in my hands and have been loving it since. So, I do think this upgrade process works best through their website (if it works), because I do find the customer service reps are always less educated in Rogers' offerings than most people who call in.

I really don't think that Rogers is trying to sabotage the launch, yes, they seem to love the iPhone more than any other top of the line phone out there, but I have seen their commercial featuring the Focus several times on TV now. It makes no sense to promote a product you have no intention of selling.

[Fritzly]

There has not been a real shortage problem here in Chicago. I was waiting for the Dell Venue Pro but got so frustrated with all of the delays and news regarding faulty units that I decided to pick up the HD7. I may return it to take part in the BOGO deals this weekend, but so far I am really happy with the purchase!

Interesting: I returned it because I found both the top ON/OFF button and the Camera one on the side of the device difficult to push. Besides how is the camera quality? Mine was terrible: all the pictures were very purple and out of focus.

[randalllewis]

There are lots of reasons to be ticked off by that story Jason. Besides your legitimate gripes about Rogers, the whole story was based on one comment from an anonymous source whose credibility simply is not known. And yet with the internet being what it is, the story was repeated over and over with no one....including the so-called high end tech press, never bothering to corroborate the source.

I think it is also possible to question the judgment of some of the other carriers involved in the launch. Or at least, the local store managers. When I went to a local AT&T owned store on launch day, they had 10 of the HTC model and 4 of the Samsung Focus. I said "4? Really?" (Quoting the WP7 ads.) The manager told me he thought the HTC model would be more popular. Maybe he was right and most people aren't like me and want that fabulous Samsung screen, but he sold half of his Samsungs and none of his HTC's in the first 15 minutes the store was opened.

[alcdroid]

I've been trying to get this phone for a few weeks myself from Rogers and have encountered a lot of issues. First the online site keeps giving me javascript errors and now I can't even see the phone as an option. I have called their support several times and ultimately they say the item is out of stock and to just keep trying to see if it becomes available.

In the meantime, using their fancy site for new clients, it is relatively painless to get through to the point of actually getting it ordered. But why the heck would I do that? I don't quite know why they would do this to existing clients.

[Paragon]

With Rogers I'm not surprised in the way they have handled it. Rogers has never been much of a Windows Mobile/Phone fan. I don't think they had any of the last couple of generations of Windows Mobile, and in fact spoke about it like it was gone 2-3 years ago, so I never expected much from them. Add to this the fact that their only device is the Samsung Focus which is in very tight supply because of the supply problems with the Super Amoled screen.

Dave

[phenry]

Too much to type out here. Better yet, please, read about ALL of it on my blog!

http://www.pchenry.com/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/385/Default.aspx

I'm serious, I'm also having a HUGE problem with Rogers and getting a phone. This has gone past ridiculous and towards illegal and false advertising.

[DIMMACK]

I have been trying hard to get a samsung focus since it came out on Nov 8 and failed miserably.

The only way is to pay full price (599$) or get a new contract, and i'm not prepared for either.

I tried to HUP online it but i got this weird java error when doing so.

Customer service representative had no clue most of the time I mentionned "the focus".

Now, with the BOGO stuff going on in the states, it's definately not a supply problem from Samsung. The hardware is essentially the same as the Captivate S and this phone is available everywhere in Canada.

My guess is that Rogers underestimated the demand for WP7 and did not order enough phone for a proper launch. I don't know how cellphone supply chain works, but i'm sure Samsung is silkscreening the Rogers logo on a load of Focus as we speak and we're just waiting for the shipment to ship from Taiwan.

My hate for Rogers is through the roof with this story, and i'm seriously considering outright buying the phone for 600$ and unlocking it for 15$, then signing with Telus or Videotron (same band, better data plans) when it's time to renew my contract. :mad:

[Don Tolson]

In Victoria, the stores now have the boxes, but they're empty -- 'Just for show'. They expect to be getting the phones in the next couple of weeks.

I've sent a couple of emails to the Customer Support people, asking about an exchange of my S-E X10, since I'm not all that impressed with Android, but no response at all.

[Jason Dunn]

I tweeted the official Rogers Twitter account with a link to this story, and a woman named Elise Tweeted me back three messages:

@jasondunn Hi Jason. The Focus was announced on Rogers.com and RedBoard as for sale online only. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

@jasondunn The device was available both for existing and new customers, but there was an issue for some customers upgrading.

@jasondunn We expect full in-store launch soon, before the end of this month.

I exchanged several messages with her today, and she was patient and tried to be helpful, but she's convinced it was available for sale online and was available for an upgrade when my experience is the exact opposite. She kept saying "soon"...so I'd guess by the end of this week or early next.

It really amazes me that Microsoft Canada isn't all over this - this is their last chance to do it right in the mobile phone space, and if their partners are screwing it up for them, they need to do their best to not let that happen.

[Twain]

Jason,

I would be upset for a couple of reasons. First, you are dealing with a service provider that ostensibly, was reserving devices for "new customers" only and not existing customers. When are retailers going to figure out that "retail" involves a sale and in this economy, they need to get sales anyway they can? Second, even if the local sales people had misinformation, you're still dealing with a company that doesn't train its sales force properly. As a result, you get the runaround.

The article (forget for the moment the potentially sketchy sources) only looked at North American sales. Supposedly, Microsoft went after the international market (rather than bringing into the fold early, Sprint and Verizon); therefore what is of interest would be worldwide sales, not just North America.

Not sure there is a solution here. I have Verizon and I've just learned not to wait with baited breath for anything to come from them. If I want something really bad enough, I have to be willing to jump to AT&T (and their demonstrated horrible service) or T-Mobile.

[gilles]

Here in spain, Movistar announced they would have 3 phones available, HD7, Omnia 7 and Optimus 7. 3 weeks after the launch , they didn t have anything. Nada...

Now apparently, the optimus 7 is available, but you can't check it out in the flagship store in Madrid. They got 8 iphone4 that nobody cares about and others android phones.

I went to ask when the omnia 7 would be available, the guy told me maybe for christmas...When you ask for a windows phone7, they try to sell you a iphone or android. Man...what a great partner...

When you enter the store, you ask for a windows phone 7, they tell you that they have the Omnia 2. I just look at them with a face saying yeah...right...whatever ****head.

I know a lot of people who wanna buy a wp7 but can't get their hands on them...
Who should we blame? carriers or microsoft? both... microsoft made the launch in europe is f.... joke and carriers that are just so useless.

Still, i think i'll wait for a wp7... :p

[Twain]

@jasondunn Hi Jason. The Focus was announced on Rogers.com and RedBoard as for sale online only. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

@jasondunn The device was available both for existing and new customers, but there was an issue for some customers upgrading.

@jasondunn We expect full in-store launch soon, before the end of this month.


None of these messages really ring true. (1) Why weren't the sales people able to tell you that the devices were only presently available online? (2) "There was an issue..." sounds bogus. Message doesn't indicate anything's been corrected. (I understand limitations on size of tweet content, but still...) and (3) "expect" and "before the end of this month" -- LMAO. With the end of the month less than a week away, seems to me they would know for sure whether or not they WILL do something. Saying you "expect" to do something is a bit of a dodge. Not clear that prediction will come true.

[DIMMACK]

The Focus is back as an HUP option on the website, but it still giving Java error :(


javax.servlet.ServletException: Failed to compile JSP /portlets/common/myrogers/hup/hupOrderSummary.jsp
hupOrderSummary.jsp:52:52: Type com.rogers.portal.datamodel.myrogers.HupServicesResponseVO contains no methods named getMdblPaperBill.
double paperBillRate = objHupServicesResponseVO.getMdblPaperBill();
</pre>

[Jason Dunn]

On the 9th I logged back into My Rogers account and tried once again to upgrade and the Samsung Focus mysteriously appeared and I quickly upgraded. 3 days later, I had the phone in my hands and have been loving it since. So, I do think this upgrade process works best through their website (if it works), because I do find the customer service reps are always less educated in Rogers' offerings than most people who call in.

I'm happy for you. :D

When I tried the same thing, it would only let me get the phone for $599. See, I've have the Samsung Jack since I joined back in 2008, but I've had it replaced once because Rogers was convinced a bug I was reporting in their build of Windows Mobile 6.1 was somehow the fault of the phone hardware. :rolleyes: Their system is so dumb it thinks that a replaced phone counts as a new phone, so I couldn't qualify for the hardware upgrade without the override of a Rogers staff member...and THEY had no access to the Focus. It's a maddening system they have. :mad:

It makes no sense to promote a product you have no intention of selling.

I agree. So why is Rogers doing such an awful job of providing this phone for people to buy?

[pedah]

They have been hard to get, but go figure, Telstra, decided to give me the Mozart 7.

[chocolaterose]

I would love to have one. Anything beats this Iphone I have. I've had the battery replaced and still had problems. Someone wanted to buy it, but I wouldn't sell it to a dog that could talk.

Lynn

[karen]

Jason -

It won't really matter when the WP7 phones get to the stores. In my epxerience, the store staff will try really hard to steer you to a RIM phone no matter what. Perhaps they are also pushing Androids, but I can tell you it is nearly impossible to get a store to sell you a Windows phone.

On top of that, the carriers don't want you to have one anyway.

When I finally gave up on Telus' "unlimited" 30 MB a month WinMo phone, I switched to the iPhone. Not because I really wanted an iPhone, but because at the time that was the only smartphone with a reasonable cap of 6 GB a month.

I was at Toronto TechDays a few weeks ago just before the "launch". Microsoft was really promoting the WP7 phones and development platform. I played with the Focus belonging to one of the MS guys for about 15 minutes during lunch. I told him at the time that it would most likely be impossible to buy, that Rogers would try to steer us away from them and that there would be no support for upgrading to MS phone.

And here we are, no phones for loyal customers. Big surprise.

I see that Elise (one of the Rogers CSRs from Twitter) has confirmed that there are no Focus phones for loyal customers, only for those who switch from other carriers.

[NeoTechni]

I walked into Rogers yesterday and they told me it hasnt launched yet... I'd like a WinMo7 phone, preferably with a KB. The only ones that have one is Bell (LG Quantum Optimus)

[RogersElise]

Hi all!

I am Elise from Rogers social media team. Thank you for your enthusiasm regarding the Samsung Focus!

I just wanted to post a quick update! We are now pleased to announce that we have received stocks. They started shipping to our retail stores on Friday and should be available everywhere by end of this week.

You can also upgrade to the device on Rogers.com.


I see that Elise (one of the Rogers CSRs from Twitter) has confirmed that there are no Focus phones for loyal customers, only for those who switch from other carriers.

Karen, I am not sure where you saw that. If you could send me the link so that I can correct, that would be very helpful.
We always ensure that all of our customers have access to our devices and I've worked with quite a few existing customers over the last weeks to help them upgrade to the Samsung Focus.

Please contact me here or on Twitter - @RogersElise- if you have more questions regarding the Focus.

Elise

[karen]

Karen, I am not sure where you saw that. If you could send me the link so that I can correct, that would be very helpful.

This is what I saw:

"Hi Peter

Sorry for the inconvenience. When we launched the Samsung Focus online, we launched it with limited quantities and offered upgrades and sale to new customers online only.

I am sorry if your device has been back-ordered. I will get in touch with you via Twitter and try to help.

Elise"


http://www.pchenry.com/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/385/Default.aspx


Glad to hear you have more in stock. I'm hoping to get my hands on a live one to see what it looks like. I'm all abut the screen and the dummy phones don't really help.

[Jason Dunn]

I just wanted to post a quick update! We are now pleased to announce that we have received stocks. They started shipping to our retail stores on Friday and should be available everywhere by end of this week. You can also upgrade to the device on Rogers.com.

Thanks for taking the time to post in here Elise, it's appreciated.

For others reading this, the Samsung Focus is in Rogers stores in the greater Toronto area, but it seems nowhere else in Canada yet. We're now into the fourth week of me trying, and failing, to buy a Samsung Focus at a Rogers retail store, or via Rogers online. I'm hoping this will be the week I finally get one... :D

[RogersElise]

This is what I saw: "Hi Peter
Sorry for the inconvenience. When we launched the Samsung Focus online, we launched it with limited quantities and offered upgrades and sale to new customers online only.
I am sorry if your device has been back-ordered. I will get in touch with you via Twitter and try to help.
Elise"

Glad to hear you have more in stock. I'm hoping to get my hands on a live one to see what it looks like. I'm all abut the screen and the dummy phones don't really help.

Ok, I understand now.
What I meant is that the Focus was available for upgrades (ie existing customers) and new customers as well, but it was on sale only on Rogers.com.

It will hopefully teach me to formulate better my sentences :)

Also, I'll take this opportunity to explain a bit more what our social media team is doing.

We're not a new Customer Care channel. If you have an issue related to your account or need some Tech Support, the best first steps are always to call Tech Support or Customer Care. We're not CSRs and don't have access to customers accounts.

But if you have a more general question - eg when is this *specific device* launching? - or if you have an issue that needs more help after contacting Customer Care, then we can look into it. We're trying to help making it easier for customers to make business with Rogers.

Feel free to contact me via PM here or on Twitter: @RogersElise

And good luck to all of you to get their hands on a Focus. Should be very soon by now. Let me know how you like it!

Elise