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  #1  
Old 10-13-2005, 07:43 PM
emfung
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 24
Default N00bie need help: rx3715 iPAQ file: "Re-writable"??

Hi, just bought this rx3715. Wish to ask about the 96MB iPAQ file store. Is this part of the ROM? I was told that any data stored here is not removable, not if we delete the data manually but is only formatable.

I tried to delete a file stored in iPAQ file store, and it works. Could anybody out there confirm with whether this part of the internal memory is usable as like any normal hardisk or flashdrive??

I've been storing all my softwares in my SD card bcoz of concern of future unistallation or update, since I though it is not possible with the iPAQ file store. I believe if I can store programs in the iPAQ file store, the program may run faster.

Thank you very much.
 
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2005, 10:30 PM
burtcom
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The iPaq File Store is meant to function just like any Storage Card. You can place and remove files to it, install applications to it, etc.

There is a potential problem, however. there appears to be a bug that may cause the File Store to become corrupt -- symptom is the device will restart if you attempt to remove a file. Some have said the bug may strike if the File Store gets too full.
 
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2005, 04:20 AM
emfung
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burtcom, thank you for your reply, and th advice.

By the way, is it really faster to run programs from iPAQ file store or from storage card? I have a 150x apacer card, how does it compare to the iPAQ file store?

How much RAM do you normally set for programs?
Since the iPAQ file store can be used and that I've just bought this 1Gigs SD card, I'm thinking of reserving all (or most of) my RAM for programs. Is that necessary?

How can I transfer program files stored in the RAM to iPAQ file store or storage card with uninstalling them and reinstall?

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
 
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:09 AM
Nurhisham Hussein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
By the way, is it really faster to run programs from iPAQ file store or from storage card? I have a 150x apacer card, how does it compare to the iPAQ file store?
The SD card would be much, much faster (caveat: but not 150x faster, IIANM the limit of the interface is about 20x-24x). This is a result of the type of memory used, even though in hardware terms they're pretty similar. Be aware though, because of the way the PPC boots up, programs on your SD card will not be available until the OS is fully started. Therefore you'll need to keep items that need to run at startup to be installed either in the File store or in RAM - otherwise you'll get 'program not found' errors. Examples: Battery Pack Pro, SPB Pocket Plus.

Rule of thumb - if it's on the today screen, or runs at startup, install into RAM or File Store.

Apart from that - anything goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
How much RAM do you normally set for programs?
As much as needed - most programs don't require more than about 10MB - though sometimes web browsing demands much more. I typically have about 50MB free - but that's just my requirement. Some programs, like Access databases, will need a lot of RAM to run properly, but typical programs (PIM, calculator, most games) you won't need much at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
Since the iPAQ file store can be used and that I've just bought this 1Gigs SD card, I'm thinking of reserving all (or most of) my RAM for programs. Is that necessary?
Refer above. Although you will find that your PPC will run faster without too many programs installed into RAM (this is independent of how much free RAM you actually have).

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
How can I transfer program files stored in the RAM to iPAQ file store or storage card with uninstalling them and reinstall?
Not without a lot of teeth-gnashing. Basically it involves a some work in the registry and modifying links. For most apps, it's a fairly basic path change. If on the other hand, it involves OLE or file registration, than it's considerably more work. Bottom line - it's a lot faster and much, much easier to uninstall and reinstall.
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2005, 05:04 PM
emfung
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Posts: 24

Hisham, I'm malaysian too. Thank you very much for your information.

Quote:
but not 150x faster, IIANM the limit of the interface is about 20x-24x
That's means no point of buying a high speed card?? Alamakk, waste money... What's IIANM? The pda card reader module?

Quote:
Rule of thumb - if it's on the today screen, or runs at startup, install into RAM or File Store
I like this idea. THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Quote:
it's a lot faster and much, much easier to uninstall and reinstall.
Got it..

By the way, I tested my card with Antonv Pocket Mechanic. It turns out to be only "Read: 0.66MB/s (4.5X) and Write: 0.03MB/s (0.2X)". I'm getting a similar speed results for my old 256MB Kingston. Why is that so little?? However I noted a big difference in speed between the 2 cards when I transfer a folder containing about 1MB of files from RAM to storage card, manually. Have you tried out Pocket Mechanic? Is that reliable?

I then formatted the 1 Gig card to FAT16 + cluster size 32K (as recommended by Antonv for best performance) and tested the card again, it improves a little to Read 4.9X/ Write 0.4X, but the speeds actually decreased a bit when tested it on my computer with HD-Tach (tested average speed 7.2MB/s)

Is that necessary to use FAT16 system file?

I can't access the SD Card with my laptop. It needs to be reformated. Other than formatting it back to FAT32, how can I have my laptop to be able to reand and write on my SD Card?

Thank you veyr much.
 
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2005, 04:19 PM
Menneisyys
5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
Hisham, I'm malaysian too. Thank you very much for your information.
OFFTOPIC: my wife also has a Malaysian girlfriend. If you have a Finnish friend you've spent weeks or even months with in Europe, let me know

Quote:
but not 150x faster, IIANM the limit of the interface is about 20x-24x
Well, to a certain degree. You may want to read, for example, this and this thread on these subjects.

Quote:
That's means no point of buying a high speed card?? Alamakk, waste money...
There is if you have, for example, a high(er)-end digicam or a USB2 card reader in your desktop computer and always move hundreds of Megabytes every day off/to the card.

Quote:
What's IIANM? The pda card reader module?
if i am not mistaken


Quote:
Quote:
Rule of thumb - if it's on the today screen, or runs at startup, install into RAM or File Store
I like this idea. THANK YOU THANK YOU.
Note that, by default, most Today plug-ins put themselves in RAM, even if you instruct them to be installed into the FS. You must hack them out by hand. An example is Spb Pocket Plus; but, there're dozens of more of plugins like that. You may want to read the 'relocation' and 'free up your RAM' links at Windows Mobile Technology to get a full picture of this question.


Quote:
Although you will find that your PPC will run faster without too many programs installed into RAM (this is independent of how much free RAM you actually have).
Here're some quantitive benchmarks that show this well worth reading. Also, it's worth reading the above-mentioned Windows Mobile Technology roundups/reviews because I also pinpoint if an app installs tons of files, which may result in overall speed degradation if you're not cautious. (Affected apps are games like Fade, a great deal of Infrared remote controllers, several Today plug-ins and other systems programs that have hundreds of icons in separate files etc.)

Quote:
Quote:
Basically it (relocating apps) involves a some work in the registry and modifying links. For most apps, it's a fairly basic path change. If on the other hand, it involves OLE or file registration, than it's considerably more work. Bottom line - it's a lot faster and much, much easier to uninstall and reinstall.
Got it..
Reinstalling should be done by uninstalling your apps and then, re-running the installer EXE or MSI files on the desktop. Note that the ActiveSync-based (Tools / Add/Remove Programs) relocation has a tendency to install applications in the directory that they have been first installed to, no matter what target you give to them.

After this, you may still want to manually fine-tune your RAM memory to get rid of unnecessary help, uninstaller etc. files or to test if the app was indeed installed to the memory card or not. As has already been pointed out, a great deal of Pocket PC apps 'lie' when they (more precisely, ActiveSync) ask you about their target. No matter what you give them, they will still happily install (part of) themselves into RAM. Apps like this are, for example, older versions of Jeode, Running Voice, Spb Pocket Plus etc. The vast majority of these apps can very easily be (manually) relocated to a much less precious memory type.

I also recommend this thread.

Quote:
By the way, I tested my card with Antonv Pocket Mechanic. It turns out to be only "Read: 0.66MB/s (4.5X) and Write: 0.03MB/s (0.2X)". I'm getting a similar speed results for my old 256MB Kingston. Why is that so little?? However I noted a big difference in speed between the 2 cards when I transfer a folder containing about 1MB of files from RAM to storage card, manually. Have you tried out Pocket Mechanic? Is that reliable?
Definitely not. There're no reliable storage card benchmarker utilities. These utilities report far lower speeds than these cards are really capable of. You may want to read this (frontpaged!) article on tuning and benchmarking (for example, with PIE cache tests or simple, plain file copying in a decent file copier definitely not in the dog-slow, built-in File Explorer!) these cards.

Quote:
I then formatted the 1 Gig card to FAT16 + cluster size 32K (as recommended by Antonv for best performance)
Well, I have results that, with some cards, are diametrically opposed to Anton's results. Please read the above article (and the article ' What do you need to know about optimizing storage card speed?' linked from it). In a word: it can not be said that 'a card will be the fastest with FAT16/32k. With some cards, it'll even be slower than with a more optimal (and, I should add, much more space-saver) file system/cluster size.

Quote:
Is that necessary to use FAT16 system file?
Definitely not. Benchmark your cards and choose the fastest file system/cluster size setting.

Quote:
I can't access the SD Card with my laptop. It needs to be reformated.
It should be able to access FAT16 cards strange it cant. Is it able to read all FAT32 cards?

However, feel free to reformat it you will do a lot of formatting to find out the fastest configuration.
 
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2005, 11:33 AM
emfung
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 24

Quote:
If you have a Finnish friend you've spent weeks or even months with in Europe, let me know
Means that you're Finns, I'm a great supporter of the 2 great Finns drivers. What an unfortunate chinese grand prix, though. Opps, off-topic... again..

Code:
Well, to a certain degree. You may want to read, for example, this and this thread on these subjects.
Oh yeah, I've read that article, though have not try it out yet. I've got no experience in registry editing, so need some time to digest. And, I'm aware that you wrote that article. That is really a great article, very informative.

Quote:
Note that, by default, most Today plug-ins put themselves in RAM, even if you instruct them to be installed into the FS.
I think I managed to install them all in the iPAQ file store, except for marsware weather panel, which has a .dll stored in the RAM. I leave it there. Spb pocket plus runs well too. But the startup (softreset) becomes very slow, especially for Wisbar Advance2. Anyway, I'm satisfy with this necessary compensation. Actually, my pocket plus is still in evaluation period. I'm going to register it. It's a good plugin, indeed.

Quote:
You may want to read the 'relocation' and 'free up your RAM' links at Windows Mobile Technology to get a full picture of this question.
Thanks for the link. Very informative.

Quote:
Here're some quantitive benchmarks that show this well worth reading. Also, it's worth reading the above-mentioned Windows Mobile Technology roundups/reviews
Yeah, worth reading, indeed.. I'm gonna spend my night for these.

Quote:
Well, I have results that, with some cards, are diametrically opposed to Anton's results
Thank God, my card is not decisively that slow yet..

Quote:
Please read the above article (and the article ' What do you need to know about optimizing storage card speed?' linked from it).
Thanks again..

Quote:
It should be able to access FAT16 cards strange it cant. Is it able to read all FAT32 cards?
Is FAT = FAT16?
When formated with Anton's, my laptop card reader can't access it. When formatted with windowsXP (FAT), both the ppc and laptop can access it.

I'm glad to have ppc expert like Menneisyys to answer my doubt. You guys must be spending hours of time to reply repeating questions like this. I'm aware that if I spend some time to browse through the forums, I'll be able to find the solution without posting the same question again. Sometimes, it just too time-consuming to search for the answer because of lack of experience. Thank God, that we have you guys to help.
 
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2005, 12:03 PM
Menneisyys
5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
Is FAT = FAT16?
Yes, FAT16 is usually abbreviated as FAT - for example, by the format tool of Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfung
When formated with Anton's, my laptop card reader can't access it. When formatted with windowsXP (FAT), both the ppc and laptop can access it.
You may want to stick to a notebook-compatible solution so that you'll be able to access the contents of your card straight on your notebook too. You may want to give a try to other formats too, also formatted on your PDA - the Windows formatter tool can't disable the FAT backup table, which may greatly slow down the access speed of your card.
 
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