Now imagine it's dark outside, your front porch light is on and a passerby uses your light to view a map, etc. Would you say he's stealing your light??
No that would be ludicrous. Same here with wifi if there's no abusing it.
If I leave my light on, I'm using the energy. If I leave my Wifi open, it's not in use till you start using it...that costs money. Just ask Jason what he pays each month for bandwidth if you think you aren't stealing anything of value.
Or, to use your example...If I have a light on the outside of my house with a switch and a live wire running to it, if you turn it on, you are stealing my energy.....If you use my open WiFi, you are stealing my bandwidth.
I think juttonn made some good points. When I go into a coffee shop or mall I quite often look for a connection. If I find one, I generally assume it's meant to be used. I think it's similar to assuming that a path down to a beach is public unless otherwise posted.
I read an article somewhere, sorry can't remember where, where the author said that his laptop at home will sometimes lose the connection to his own network and connect to a nearby one that has a stronger signal without him even noticing it; he thought that, if anything, the other network was intruding into his house.
I agree that using another persons WiFi is illegal, without their permission. However, the person who started this string stated that "wardriving" is the act of driving around looking for open WiFi aps with the intention of connecting to that access point to reach the internet or do some other dasterdly business. That statement is soo far from wrong! I personally engage in wardriving, and have never in the two years that I have been doing it connected through another persons ap without their permission. Get the facts right! Don't go around giving those of us that engage in legal wardriving as a hobby a bad name. I also know personally many others that engage in wardriving as a hobby without malice or illegal intentions or actions.
I hate thieves. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a place where we didn't have to lock the doors to our house or our car? I don't know where that place is.
Not sure if you've heard it, but there's a common ideology going around that eons ago, you could leave your house and car unlocked since everyone had the right kind of morals to leave your personal belongings untouched.
Now that's not so much the case. It may be a bad case of paranoia, but I always like to double-check the front door or my car door before I head out.
Back on topic, I do think it's morally wrong to trespass on one's private wireless connection without direct permission, but it should also be in the owner's interest to ensure that his/her connection is appropriately secured. While one can't stop the countless number of hack jobs going on in this day and age, at least by securing your connection, you provide some level of security as opposed to none at all. The problem is that as much as wireless connections are being widely publicised by ISPs and network companies, the vast majority of Joe users aren't educated on the dos and don'ts of wireless networking. Mention the phrase, "have you secured your connection?" to them and they respond with a simple, "huh?". :|
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Interesting debates going on here, but consider it from this standpoint (for the moment ignore moral and ethical, look only at the law). You can protect the network before allowing to spillover into the public domain, (the street). In fact a legal argument could be made that since the owner of the network did not take reasonable steps to close the network, they made an "attractive nuisance” and could be open to tort claims.
When we consider the fact the radio waves are not confined to traditional boundaries, this raises a whole new issue. For example, a radio or television transmitter on the border between two countries sends signals across the border. The programming is not licensed for use in that country, yet people can still watch/listen. Should they be prosecuted for infringement on intellectual property rights? While some may think this is silly, it is in fact true, look at Direct Satellite Broadcasting Services from the USA that can be picked up in Canada and Mexico.
Simply put, the laws have once again not caught up with technology.
(Morals and ethics back on)
In my office I have a separate commercial internet connection that I have placed on a open WiFi network as a convenience to those conducting business with us and might need internet access. I assume that since it is open, people should know they are free to use it.
Comparisons:
Consider a shopping mall in which free food samples are placed on a table in front of the store (not inside, but in front) and are left unattended, a very common practice. You walk by and help yourself to some goodies, someone walks out and claims you stole the food. Did you? Free samples are common in this setting, yet there was no signed explicitly stating, “free." Is it stealing?
Standing outside theater that has a concert inside, you can hear the music but did not pay, stealing?
How about Wrigley Field in Chicago, apartments across the street can view the ball games without paying admission, stealing?
Do not know what is right or wrong, but know that this can be complicated with longer implications.
"wardriving" where a person seeks out a Wi-Fi signal with the intention of getting free internet access at someone else's expense.
God it would be nice if people researched a term before spouting it out. wardriving is:
Quote:
To drive around with a laptop with a wireless
card, and an antenna, looking for accessible wireless
networks.
REAL wardrivers do not obtain an IP address from a detected network. Go to any wardriving site’s discussion board and they will pound you into ground if you start talking about “hey how do I get on this network”
You guys are just as bad as mainstream media in regards to getting this right. :? I recently e-mailed www.wcco.com who did a expose on wardriving. They pretty much said the same crap. Maybe just trying to scare people into securing their system. Don't know. All I know is I'm getting REALLY tired of trying to knock down a stereotype that is just plain wrong.
Beyond that tell me who’s fault it is when I have friends over and they want to use my wireless and my neighbor’s access point is as open as..well this is a PG site so I can’t say that. So instead of connecting to mine what is the first AP the system connects to? Sorry but if you don’t put a certain amount of minimum security on your system you are no different then leaving your wide screen TV out on the sidewalk with a blanket over it with the notion that no one is going to take it because they can’t see it. Here in MN you will get a ticket for leaving your car alone running. Why? Because of theft. So in that case its just as much the owners fault as the person doing the stealing. (Also talk to an insurance agent sometime and see what happens if its found that your car was stolen while running. Friend had his rates jacked WAY up after such an incident. (Who the heck needs to leave their car running to grab groceries?)
I was sitting in a hotel room in downtown Philadelphia this past weekend at a convention. I picked up 6 count em 6 WIFI points. 2 were open. As WIFI becomes ubiquitous there needs to be due diligence laws put in place. If you don’t put basic security on your system there should be no reason someone shouldn’t be allowed to access your access point just as some coffee shops have open WIFI. There needs to be an easy way of telling what is open for public use and what isn’t. Of course all of this coming from a state run by…oh nevermind what's the point. *sighs* :roll:
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I admit I haven't turned on stronger security measures for my AP (such as WPA-PSK, or even just turn off SSID broadcast, etc), only because I have older devices not able to use the newer security features. For example, the old Socket CF Wi-Fi card used on older PPCs...
This should be treated as simply as trespassing laws. If you walk across an unfenced yard you are not legally trespassing. If you jump a fence to do it, you are.
The owner of an AP should have the burden to put up at least a small "fence" to show his intention to keep people out.
I regularly connect to other people's networks. Why? Because I can. I don't break into anything and I leave the routers and stuff alone.
I consider connecting to these open networks a great privilege. I don't bite the hand that feeds me bandwidth, because it gives us a bad name, it scares the owners, and it means no more bandwidth for me if they lock it down. Most wardrivers and actual connecters understand there are certain things you can, can't and above all just shouldn't do.
In the end, the owner of the network is responsible for their network and their bandwidth. Not me. If it's open and spills over into my house, I have no problems with using it.
I have, on occasion, connected to a residential access point. When I first got my x30, I was along with my wife and her sister hitting yard sales. My son fell asleep in the car, and rather than wake him, I decided to sit in the car with him (I was tired of yard sales anyway). I fired up my wi-fi to see what was out there, and I was able to connect to one router long enough to load a web page before I disconnected. It was enough reading material, and I was sure that what I did was morally wrong.
As said before, I really wouldn't mind if someone connected to my network to download email or check the headlines. I would appreciate it if others would allow me the same courtesy, as one computer geek to another. But, of course, when you make something idiot proof they make a better idiot, and some people run around in life with the sole intention of destroying any public safety or trust for the rest of us, forcing us to lock down our routers and our cars.
I was at the doctor's office a month or so ago. You know how doctors are. You're in the waiting room 15 minutes past your scheduled appointment, then they take you back to the room, check your blood pressure, and leave you in isolation for another 45 minutes. That's at a good office. I fired up my wi-fi, and lo and behold an access point! While I was forced to wait for my 3 seconds with the doctor, I was able to chat with a couple of friends, find something to read and check a few discussion forums (including this one). It made the visit go so much faster. I would love to see more open access points in the world. It would make things like taking the wife to the mall so much more bearable.
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