[lord_darkside]

Originally Posted by butch

We're not criminal, but I think it give us the right to use those medias for anything we want, we paid for it.

That's totally true, if the recording industry gets their way and they get this tarriff, does that mean that they'll lay off of all of the "anti peer-to-peer" nonsense that they're engaging in?

I recently bought 50 CD's, I used 10 of them to save all of the digital photos that I've taken over the last year and a half. 5 more were for web sites that I've been creating. I used 2 as a test to burn a VCD of a Buffy episode. 4 discs became useless coasters when my computer kacked. I used one to burn a backup of all of the drivers for my PC, and made two mixed CD's (mostly of music that I ripped from CD's I've bought, although a couple of songs were b-sides stuff that I could only find on the web).


By my estimation, if the Record industry is already getting $.21 per CD I'm burning, then that means that they recieved $2.52 for each of the music CD's I burned. That's a pretty sweet deal!

[lord_darkside]

Originally Posted by butch

We're not criminal, but I think it give us the right to use those medias for anything we want, we paid for it.

That's totally true, if the recording industry gets their way and they get this tarriff, does that mean that they'll lay off of all of the "anti peer-to-peer" nonsense that they're engaging in?

I recently bought 50 CD's, I used 10 of them to save all of the digital photos that I've taken over the last year and a half. 5 more were for web sites that I've been creating. I used 2 as a test to burn a VCD of a Buffy episode. 4 discs became useless coasters when my computer kacked. I used one to burn a backup of all of the drivers for my PC, and made two mixed CD's (mostly of music that I ripped from CD's I've bought, although a couple of songs were b-sides stuff that I could only find on the web).


By my estimation, if the Record industry is already getting $.21 per CD I'm burning, then that means that they recieved $2.52 for each of the music CD's I burned. That's a pretty sweet deal!

[Hugh Nano]

Here's the CPCC's response to the e-mail I sent them (given in my previous post):

"Mr. Hewlett,

"Thank you for your email.

"Please understand that private copying has been made legal – there is no infringement. To achieve this, the Copyright Act was revised in 1997. Individuals were given the right to make copies of recorded music for their own personal use. But in exchange, copyright holders in recorded music were given a right to be compensated by way of a levy to be charged on media used for private copying. Copyright holders in more than 25 countries around the globe enjoy similar protections.

"Sincerely,

"Alison Thompson
Collection and Enforcement Associate"

What do you think?

[Gerard]

I sent in my initial stream of vitriol, as I rarely even use the 'privilege' of personal copying of music CDs. I got a virtually identical reply from Alison Thompson mailto:athompson@cpcc.ca
(except the bit about 25+ countries was missing). Thanks for the new address. I'll be sending more. I replied to Alison, at length, detailing my exact thoughts on the matter. It feels difficult to keep a civil tongue in this matter, but really, why am I being taxed for a service or product I do not use? I use CD-RW and CF memory for backups and data filestore. I use them also for copying home-recorded sessions of my partner's and other friend's music, played live to minidisc and transferred. I even convert some of this to MP3. But none of it infringes anyone's copyright. This is just insane.

[rlitchfield]

The following was the response and my original letter sent to my representatives. I obviously made a mistake thinking it was $21 per meg rather than per gig.....anyways...here is the thread.


Dear Mr. Litchfield,

Thank you for your email.

To be subject to a levy, media must be capable of being used for private
copying and proven to be ordinarily used for this purpose. Currently,
levies are applied to audiocassettes, MiniDiscs, CD-R/RW and CD-R/RW
Audio (a specialized form of recordable CD intended for use only with
audio recording equipment). CPCC has now asked that the Copyright Board
also permit it to begin collecting a levy on recordable DVD, MP3
players, removable flash memory and removable micro hard drives.

It seems clear that MP3 players are devices used primarily, even
exclusively, to copy recorded music. Some MP3 players use removable
memory. It is for these reasons that CPCC is requesting a levy on
removable memory used in MP3 players (electronic memory cards, flash
memory and removable micro hard drives).

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Alison Thompson
Collection and Enforcement Associate

----Original Message-----
From: David Basskin [mailto:dbasskin@cmrra.ca]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:17 PM
To: Robert Litchfield
Subject: Re: Tax on CompactFlash cards, SD cards


Dear Mr. Litchfield:

I have forwarded your correspondence to the Canadian Private Copying
Collective for a direct response, but I just thought I should correct a
point right away: we're seeking a levy on hard drives used in
music-specific devices on the basis of $21 per GIGAbyte, not per
megabyte.
That's a thousandfold difference. Might I refer you to the actual filed
Tariffs? You can read them in Adobe Acrobat (pdf) format on the
Copyright
Board's web site at
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/prop...09032002-b.pdf or CPCC would
be
happy to send you a copy.

In any event, CPCC will be responding to you on a formal basis. Thank
you
for sharing your views with us.

David A. Basskin
Director
CPCC
Toronto, Canada



>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: Tax on CompactFlash cards, SD cards
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I have recently read that you are looking at imposing a new tax that
would
be equivalent to $21 per megabyte on compactflash cards and SD cards.
My
understanding is that this is to recoup costs related to illegal copying
of
music onto these medias. I am an owner of a number of devices that use
this medium including digital cameras, none of which is used for music.
I
own approximately 1 gigabytes worth of media and which comes to about
$2,100 worth of extra costs you are trying to get from me. This is
obviously extreme.

Living in Quebec, I already pay extremely high taxes both to the
provincial
and federal governments, adding a tax to my digital camera memory is
obviously a little extreme.

Please consider my situation and many others like mine that would be
seriously damaged by a move like this.

Thank you,
Robert Litchfield

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by rlitchfield

The following was the response and my original letter sent to my representatives. I obviously made a mistake thinking it was $21 per meg rather than per gig

True, but let's consider that $21 per gig. Once they're able to tax the hard drive on an MP3 player, what's next? Laptops? Desktops? A 100 gig hard drive would have $2100 in taxes added to it. And you can bet your ass they'll try and do it too - these guys live on another planet, because if they used blank CD's to back up data, they'd understand how utterly evil this proposal is. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

My own correspondence with them thus far. I should warn y'all, I was only pulling my punches a little bit. :twisted: First, my initial email to Basskin:

********

Basskin,

After reading this article:

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/xta-...umn/45225.html

I'm shocked that your organization would even ATTEMPT to implement such an insulting and costly law. Canadians are taxed enough as it is - we don't need to pay even more for the things we buy. You and your organization are morally bereft, corrupt puppets of the music studios, opting to screw hard working Canadians to put a few more dollars in the pockets of the rich music studios that certainly don't need any more money.

I've personally emailed every Calgary MP, every TV station in Alberta, as well as posting news about this to the 15,000 people who visit my technology web site every day - with any luck, this asinine proposal will be obliterated completely.

How you can possibly justify stealing money from hard working Canadians is beyond me - nor do I know how you go to sleep at night doing this for a living.

Sincerely,
Jason Dunn

********

Then they responded with this:

********

Mr. Dunn,

Thank you for your email.

I would like to clarify that the private copying levy is not a tax. Unlike a tax, which is collected by government, the levy is collected by CPCC and paid to copyright holders.

The purpose of the levies is to compensate authors, performers and makers of prerecorded music for private copying of that music. Under Canada’s Copyright Act, it is legal for individuals to make copies of recorded music for their own personal use. It is legal precisely because there is, by law, a levy on the media typically used for these purposes.

Sincerely,

Alison Thompson
Collection and Enforcement Associate

********

I then responded with this:

********

Thank you for responding Alison. I didn't believe anyone in your organization would have the intestinal fortitude to do so.

I would like to clarify that the private copying levy is not a tax. Unlike a tax, which is collected by government, the levy is collected by CPCC and paid to copyright holders.

I define a tax as something that I, as a consumer, have no choice but to pay. When I buy gas, I have to pay the tax that the government has placed upon that product. That makes a certain amount of sense, because gas can only be used for one purpose. Today, when I buy a blank CD to put a PowerPoint presentation onto (get that? I'm not putting music on it!), I have to pay extra for that blank CD because of what you and your organization has done. If that's not a tax, what is? It doesn't matter that you're not a government agency, or whose pocket it's going into - you're forcing me to pay more for a product on the ASSUMPTION that I'm doing something illegal.

How would you feel if, while pulling out of your driveway in your car, a police officer walked up and gave you a $100 speeding ticket? "But officer," you'd say, "I haven't even started driving yet - how could I be speeding?". The officer would reply "You might speed, and since we might not be there to catch you, we're going to assume you're guilty and give you a ticket." How would you react to that Allison? That's exactly what your organization is doing to everyone in Canada who buys a blank CD.

WHY DO YOU ASSUME WE'RE ALL CRIMINALS?

You're also putting the same tax on blank DVD-Rs - you'll kill the industry before it even starts! Who can afford to put their home movies onto a DVD if they cost $10 each?

As for being "paid to copyright holders", I don't believe that for a second. You're paying the music companies, not the musicians themselves. You're organization is nothing more than a group of puppets for the big music companies to play with.

I'm a musician, and a published author - I make part of my living off of royalties. I have zero respect for what you or your group does. I am not a criminal, and I reset being called one.

- Jason R. Dunn

********

[zylark]

I typically find that 2 out of 10 CD I burn won't be written to correctly. Will this enable me to get a 20% refound on the extra expense due to this piracy-compensation "tax" if I could document this in anyway?

Luckily I don't live in Canada.

Could be worse though, I could live in, say, Palestine where I hear food is a shortage these days. Not to mention the bullets flying around...

And Yes, I know, I need a new CD-R drive

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by zylark

Could be worse though, I could live in, say, Palestine where I hear food is a shortage these days. Not to mention the bullets flying around...

Absolutely. In the grand scheme of things, this is irrelevant. Yet, somehow after paying a large lump of income tax recently, I have no desire to be taxed any further. :-)

[DrtyBlvd]

Jeez Jase.

Pop my buble why don't ya - here I am thinking we have it bad therefore everyone else must have it better, and what do you know?

Guess I better cancel the recent application for an immi permit huh?

:roll:

[jlp]

Originally Posted by Aceze

[...]In fact, any media is at risk in this "war". Once this bill passes, it's just a matter of time until ALL media is levied (it's happening already, due to the original bill being passed).

Aceze

The French gorvernment already passed a law to collect these taxes on CDs, etc. Not only removable media, but also the MP3 players as well as they contain memory too. And now they are seriously discussing (not only thinking) about taxing desktop, laptop and you-name-it fixed harddrives too.

This is totally insane.

Now for VCR or audio tapes, why do we have to pay "taxes" in the first place? Have you ever rented a movie and copy it to a blank tape? That would justify collecting a "tax".

But most of us, if not all of us, tape TV shows and movies that the TV stations already paid royalties for. In fact we ultimately pay for every movie aired on TV as consumers who buy goods advertized on TV; and these advertisement dollars are the basis to the TV station budget to pay the movies royalties.

And then we pay it a second time when we tape these movies onto "taxed" blank tapes. Talk about getting double taxed here!!

But wait, if you think you're only taxed twice, think again:

In fact we pay royalties MANY times:
1st) when we go see a movie in the movie theatre
2nd) when we buy t-shirts, pencils, collectable pix, models, binders, breakfast cereals, bags, etc. that bear the movie logo or images of the copyrighted characters
3rd) when we rent the movie
4th) when we buy the movie
5th) when we watch the movie on TV
6th) when we buy the CD from the movie
7th) when we buy a blank tape to tape the movie from TV
8th) when we buy special compilations/bundles that already include one or more of the movies we already own
9th) when we bought the video tape and now the DVD comes out and we get it too
10th) when the tape we bought gets stuck in a defective VCR or the tape wears out or the cassette is broken (pets, kids, drop, etc.) and we get a new one.

So we all pay royalties up to 10 times for EVERY MOVIE that we see!!!

Maybe more if I forgot something!!!

Food for thought:
a) When a car manufacturer (or whatever other goods) wants to sell their new car, they make a videoclip of it. Then they pay the TV stations to air it: it's called advertisement
b) When the audio/movie industry want to sell their CD/DVD they make a videoclip of it; same thing. Then they have the TV stations pay THEM to air it: it's still advertisement, yet they call it royalties!!!

Well, France beheaded their king (roy in old French; see what I mean: roy, royalties) because of treachery; I think we should do that again to those who betray us, spoiling us, depriving us of our legal rights!!! (Beheading them morally that is).

Let's fight for our Freedom!!! Freedom, Equality and Brotherhood (Friendship)!!! is the French motto.

Note that the word "royalty" comes from the French "royauté" (kinghood) which pertains to the king's privileges (rights, taxes, etc.)