To me, part of the interface problem is not related to "touchability", but more technical. There should be a simple, standard task switcher. The user should be able to close open programs from it and also complete use it without a stylus.
You lost me on that one. WM 6.1 has a Task switcher. I mapped it to the touch-and-hold function of my Omnia's camera button. My Omnia also includes a mini-task manager that you activate with a swipe that's sort of an Alt+Tab system that brings up a small window with icons of the running programs (but I think that's a Samsung feature, not standard in WM).
Windows Mobile is like driving stick, and iPhone is like driving automatic.
I understand your metaphor, but as someone who hates automatics but enjoys using the iPhone, I'm gonna respond with a different perspective. For the most part, I can open the hood and tweak an iPhone just like I could PPC/WinMo devices. The difference is that with WinMo, I had to pull over every few miles not to tinker, but to repair.
Also, since you brought up cars here, the iPhone's steering is precise, it has a smooth short-throw 6MT, and throttle response is excellent. I can't add a roof rack, but I can fit a lot in the trunk. There are oodles of accessories and options available too. One of the downsides is that there are only a couple models available, though they're well designed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony99CA
It's been taking lumps for a while now. However, it's not really at the bottom of the marketshare heap. With 20 million units shipped last year, I think they were only behind Nokia's Symbian and RIM's BlackBerry.
I've asked this before, but no one knew the answer. How many of the 20M WinMo units were touchscreen devices?
As far as the thread's initial question goes, the iPhone's most significant feature from beginning was one seldom mentioned: the capacitance touchscreen. Without it, Apple couldn't have implemented such an effective interface. It was clear two years ago that Microsoft would need to completely overhaul WinMo and ditch the resistive screen to compete in the consumer market, and with the introduction of Android and WebOS, that's even more obvious. I suspect that Microsoft will fix the interface (perhaps providing some sort of legacy support via a capacitance stylus while switching to a finger-centric approach), though I'm not sure how some of WinMo's other issues will be addressed (such as the current PITA processes for installing apps and restoring from backup).
__________________
HP 48s, 200lx, USR Pilot 1k, Palm 3, V, M100, Handspring Visor, Sony N610c, T615c, T655c, HP iPAQ 1910, 2215, Palm T3, HP hx4705, Dell X50v, HP rx1955, Apple iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4, Samsung Galaxy Nexus
...For the most part, I can open the hood and tweak an iPhone just like I could PPC/WinMo devices. The difference is that with WinMo, I had to pull over every few miles not to tinker, but to repair.
Also, since you brought up cars here, the iPhone's steering is precise, it has a smooth short-throw 6MT, and throttle response is excellent. I can't add a roof rack, but I can fit a lot in the trunk. There are oodles of accessories and options available too. One of the downsides is that there are only a couple models available, though they're well designed
One of the downsides [of the iPhone] is that there are only a couple models available, though they're well designed
I appreciate the design too, but I would like to mention the one thing I see as the real killer, iTunes.
The only time my HTC Touch Diamond comes close to a USB cable is to charge the batter (which is unfortunately too often) or to update a ROM. I never, ever sync with the local PC. I do not want to sync to my local PC. I haven't sync'ed with a PC for years.
I set my WinMo phones up to sync with Exchange over the air and download apps over the air and pull my music and even ('gasp!') movies over the air. I want to be as independent of a static desktop device as possible. Windows Mobile lets me do that. With the iPhone, I need to have a home base... with iTunes. No Linux or FreeBSD either. My choices are Windows or OSX.
I appreciate the design too, but I would like to mention the one thing I see as the real killer, iTunes.
The only time my HTC Touch Diamond comes close to a USB cable is to charge the batter (which is unfortunately too often) or to update a ROM. I never, ever sync with the local PC. I do not want to sync to my local PC. I haven't sync'ed with a PC for years.
I pretty much use USB only to charge my iPod Touch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldan
I set my WinMo phones up to sync with Exchange over the air and download apps over the air and pull my music and even ('gasp!') movies over the air.
That describes my over the air usage of my iPod Touch. I'm assuming that the iPhone works the same way. Mail, contacts, calendar all come via Exchange. I have a third party app for syncing my tasks.
For music I've ripped from my own CDs, yes, I do have to sync via cable. But since I have plenty of room on my Touch for this, I don't do it that often. Since I charge my Touch while it is next to my PC, my music syncs while it charging. But I haven't purchase a physical CD in over a year. It's all online now. The only CDs I rip are the ones sent to me for review. I wish the publishers could send me an iTunes code instead.
The other things I sync via cable are my Audible.com purchased items. Those are remnant form my WM days. I don't bother syncing them to my WM phone any longer. If I had purchased via iTunes, I could download them over the air, too. There may be a way to do that; I just haven't bothered to research that.
The final thing that I haven't figured out if it is possible is to get my subscribed podcasts over the air. I can download all I want manually, but to get my Touch loaded up automatically, I do have to sync.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldan
I want to be as independent of a static desktop device as possible. Windows Mobile lets me do that. With the iPhone, I need to have a home base... with iTunes. No Linux or FreeBSD either. My choices are Windows or OSX.
I do wish there was less need for being hooked to my computer and I'm just waiting on the day for the Apple folks to realize it is 2009 and many gadget freaks (and even normal people ) use more than one computer. The inability to sync the same library to more than one computer needs to be fixed.
But overall, the syncing thing isn't so bad, as I don't need to do every day. Just ocassionally and ad hoc. Heck, even MS got rid of Wifi syncing and I never figured that one out.
This will be the first year that I will not buy a WM device. I've been off contract with Telus for about 6 months. They just don't offer (or stock) WM Pro phones any more. I think they have one or two that are recent. Both have tiny, low resolution screens.
I realize that in the US there are some decent offerings, but here the Canadian providers have pretty much abandoned the WM Pro phones with keypads.
When you walk into a Telus store, the push Blackberries like crazy. I've had more than one sales person tell me that they just didn't want to sell me a WM phone; that I'd be really unhappy with it.
When I tell them that I'm looking for a touch screen phone that runs WM, they tell me there is no such thing. Then when I push back, they point me to the P4000, which is my current phone. How many years old is that? And they don't stock them; they have to be special ordered. And therefore none of their in store promotions apply.
Then it's back to the BB. Usually they push the Storm or the Curve. AFAIK, I can't remote into a server using those.
I think what MS got wrong, especially in Canada, is cow-towing to the carriers. Can you imagine Apple agreeing to have an iPhone in Canada that:
Has Wifi blocked?
Has 30MB / month on their unlimited plan?
Has a screen that is 60% the size of the screens in the US and the rest of the world, with a much lower resolution?
I do understand that to get a phone into the hands of consumers, MS is in a real bind: they must get their OS on a 3rd party hardware device that then must be sold to a carrier who has all the clout in deciding what features a consumer is allowed to have. Apple can control the HW, the SW, and the OS. Then they have the sex appeal that MS can't seem to muster. That combined ownership of the experience is why Apple can constrain carriers (Rogers in Canada, AT&T in US). MS just doesn't have that weight.
For me, it's all about the screen and the browser, today. I can't get a decent screen (size or resolution) in Canada, nor does WM have a decent browser. So it's just painful to use compared to my Touch.
Maybe next year or the year after WM will catch up. But to see so many diehard WM fans moving to other devices....well, I think I'm moving on with them.
For me, it's all about the screen and the browser, today. I can't get a decent screen (size or resolution) in Canada, nor does WM have a decent browser. So it's just painful to use compared to my Touch .
Maybe next year or the year after WM will catch up. But to see so many diehard WM fans moving to other devices....well, I think I'm moving on with them.
K
I understand the problem in Canada with such a 'closed' market. I understand you're with Telus at the moment, but if you go with Rogers, you get a few more 'options' since you can purchase any GSM phone you like and fire it up just by inserting the SIM card.
I was running a HTC Kaiser/Tilt for about a year, and now own a Raphael/Touch Pro/Fuze. Both work flawlessly on the Rogers network. Right now, I'm test driving a Touch Diamond 2, but unfortunately, it's from the UK, so it won't do 3G, but everything else works like a dream.
There are CDMA unlocked phones available which technically should work on Telus, but I don't know if they 'lock' the network to only use their phones. Unfortunately, most of the store techs I've met only know the products from their vendors. Not much about the outside world.
Well, now that the iPhoney has almost caught up to Windows Mobile 2003, time to consider how much we could do with a 6 year old operating system that still cannot be done with the iPhoney. Phones are not made to be fingered incessantly, they are made to be used by voice commands when one is doing something else, like driving or navigating, or looking at a document that was attached to an email. What, still no attachments nor multitsking on iPhoney? Hope you never have to change the battery on a busy day, either!
Steve Jobs is a masterful marketer and the bulk of American consumers are idiots. MS needs to market better.
Hopefully MS will maintain an open for development friendly platform while realizing what works on the desktop is not what works for a phone, even a business phone. Voice Recognition comptence is paramount, and MS has squandered their head start with no enhancements recently. They surely have the resources as evidenced by their collaboration with FoMoCo.
Telus and Bell have both been saying that they will have a GSM network in place prior to the 2012 Olympics, maybe even next year. I'm not sure I'm willing to wait for them.
I really, really, really do not want to switch to Rogers. But I'm thinking I'm being forced to do so. So I'll do that for now, then wait to see what Telus comes up with in a year or so. I'll have to sign a 3 year contract with Rogers, but I'm willing to do that for a better, more usable experience.
I once talked to a Telus sales person in Calgary who was an active member here at PPCTs, so at least he knew what I was asking when I asked about some technical issues with the newest phones. So some sales people are here.
But last night my experience at a Rogers store was less pleasing. It was hard to get any service. The sales guy we talked to was a real jerk. Said he couldn't answer any questions about data plans because they aren't trained in that stuff at the store. They can't really answer any questions.
He said that I could try to call Rogers corporate to get my questions aswered, but that the couldn't sell me a phone. I wonder if he's actually heard of the web yet....
My last experience with Rogers was when cell phones were new, I'll admit. But even then their customer experience was lacking. My bank manager called the police to get them to stop repeatedly fraudulently billing my account for a defective phone that had been returned. I even had a receipt for the return, plus a letter from a VP at corporate. Still, they'd bill my CC several times a week trying to get the charge to stick. The manager was revsersing the charges everytime they tried. Once the police and MC were involved, they slowed down to just once a month. After a few months they finally gave up.
You can see why, even though my travel means that I could really benefit from having a GSM phone I've resisted that all these years. I've even contemplated getting a US phone and account and paying roaming for the tiny amount of use that I have here in Canada. Unfortunately, the US carriers don't seem to have any roaming packages to cut the cost of being a world-savvy chick.
But I can't keep using a pretend browser. So much of what I do has moved to the browser world. I've tried 3rd party browsers and they crawl compared to Safari on an iPhone/Touch.
I would be right back to a WM phone if a device were offered that had a high resolution screen with a real browser. If MS could make that happen, I think the ability to use a mem card and having a swappable battery would be a killer in the marketplace. Oh, and it needs to support Wifi, celluar, BT, and GPS. I know how carriers and HW vendors love to pick a couple and drop the rest, but I think the market had decided this one. Vendors who pretend it hasn't are getting less market share.
or looking at a document that was attached to an email. What, still no attachments nor multitsking on iPhoney?
Q: In summer '07, which OS supported viewing Word 2007 and Excel 2007 documents: iPhone OS 1 or WM 6?
A: iPhone OS 1
iPhone has supported viewing Office document email attachments since day 1- and actually did (in many cases still does) a better job of it than WM (better rendering). Of course, if you need to edit said docs, that's another story but in probably 99 out of 100 cases, real world users only need to view their Office docs on their phones not edit them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix
Steve Jobs is a masterful marketer and the bulk of American consumers are idiots. MS needs to market better.
If you and MS close your eyes and keep telling yourselves that, maybe the iPhone (and RIM, Android, etc.) will just go away...
Obviously you're a WM fan- good for you- everyone has a different device which is right for them, but to pretend that the iPhone's success is strictly (or even in large part) due to the stupidity/gullibility of Apple's customers is just plain silly.
__________________ 64 GB iPad 2 WiFi, Apple TV 2, 32 GB iPhone 4
Early 2011 MacBook Pro 13" (dual boot with Windows 7), Early 2009 Mac Mini
Stylus Support
However, it's not really at the bottom of the marketshare heap. With 20 million units shipped last year, I think they were only behind Nokia's Symbian and RIM's BlackBerry.
Consumer Toy vs. Business Tool
Linear Mode
