[Robert Levy]

Originally Posted by MS Mobiles

removing the check for visual studio: good idea, however I doubt Microsoft will do it - Microsoft will want to prevent in this way a trick "how to develop .NET CF applications without visual studio" that I and my friend conceived once...

Bogus. VS 2005 and the efficiency it enables is well worth the pricetag on it... but that doesn't mean there is a conspiracy to force developers into it.

For example, plans to provide a free standalone .NET Compact Framework 2.0 SDK were announced a year ago.

I'm looking into exactly why the 5.0 SDK installers have this check and if there are workarounds. My guess is that this is just to stop people from installing things in the wrong order which, historically, has been a big problem for us. Stay tuned.

[Robert Levy]

Originally Posted by MS Mobiles

removing the check for visual studio: good idea, however I doubt Microsoft will do it - Microsoft will want to prevent in this way a trick "how to develop .NET CF applications without visual studio" that I and my friend conceived once...

Bogus. VS 2005 and the efficiency it enables is well worth the pricetag on it... but that doesn't mean there is a conspiracy to force developers into it.

For example, plans to provide a free standalone .NET Compact Framework 2.0 SDK were announced a year ago.

I'm looking into exactly why the 5.0 SDK installers have this check and if there are workarounds. My guess is that this is just to stop people from installing things in the wrong order which, historically, has been a big problem for us. Stay tuned.

[MS Mobiles]

Originally Posted by Robert Levy

For example, plans to provide a free standalone .NET Compact Framework 2.0 SDK were announced a year ago.

I'm looking into exactly why the 5.0 SDK installers have this check and if there are workarounds. My guess is that this is just to stop people from installing things in the wrong order which, historically, has been a big problem for us. Stay tuned.

It's good to hear that .NET 2.0 SDK will be also free (as version 1 was) - so that compiling and making programs for .NET for Windows Mobile 5.0 would be possible (if only Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK could be installed, see below), however...

... however the fact is that Windows Mobile 2005 SDKs cannot be installed if one doesn't have Visual Studio 2005 on his/her computer, so in effect it means that Microsoft is preventing software development for Windows Mobile 5.0 without Visual Studio (= for free).

You guess that it is just to stop people from installing things in wrong order, however please note that there it is not a warning, but a message. Not a warning "there is no visual studio 2005 installed, should I proced with installation of Windows Mobile 2005?" but instead it is a message "Visual studio 2005 is not installed in your computer, so go buy visual studio 2005 or abandon any hope to develop for Windows MObile 5.0".

Sure, please check it out, Robert, however answer must be binary: yes, or not. And for now the answer is: not. (not possible to develop without visual studio 2005, not possible to run emulators without visual studio 2005).

[SnozBerries]

Originally Posted by Robert Levy

I'm looking into exactly why the 5.0 SDK installers have this check and if there are workarounds. My guess is that this is just to stop people from installing things in the wrong order which, historically, has been a big problem for us. Stay tuned.

It appears to have a dependency on VS2005. I managed to install SDK on a machine w/o VS2005 using some tricks. What I then ended up with is the emulator OS images and skins, but not the actual emulator exe to loads up the images. So even if you manage to install the SDK, all that you can use from it is the documentation, which you can already access online (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...dowsMobile.asp).

Because the emulator has changed so much from VS2003 (it now runs ARM bits rather than i386), you will not be able to take the emulator images from the SDK and use them with the emulator included in VS2003 (yes, I tried full knowing that it wouldn't work).

[Kris Kumar]

Originally Posted by Robert Levy

I'm looking into exactly why the 5.0 SDK installers have this check and if there are workarounds. My guess is that this is just to stop people from installing things in the wrong order which, historically, has been a big problem for us. Stay tuned.

Thanks Robert.

Keeping my fingers crossed. :-) Hoping that the VS 2005 check in the SDK installer is a bug. ;-)

[Kris Kumar]

Originally Posted by SnozBerries

What I then ended up with is the emulator OS images and skins, but not the actual emulator exe to loads up the images.

The emulator is no longer part of the SDK. It is a separate application package called Microsoft Device Emulator [check the link to find out how you can download the emulator]. It is also bundled with the VS 2005.

[MS Mobiles]

Originally Posted by SnozBerries

What I then ended up with is the emulator OS images and skins, but not the actual emulator exe to loads up the images

Thanks SnozBerries! You have confirmed my darkest suspicions: Microsoft purposefully locked Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK to visual studio 2005 to prevent people from working out a way to develop software for Windows Mobile 5.0 without visual studio 2005, for free.

What it means in practice? Much less freeware will be available for Windows Mobile 5.0 - a pity.

:cry:

[MS Mobiles]

Originally Posted by Kris Kumar

The emulator is no longer part of the SDK. It is a separate application package called Microsoft Device Emulator [check the link to find out how you can download the emulator]. It is also bundled with the VS 2005.

Good idea!
SnozBerries : could you try to run your hacked images with this emulator?

SnozBerries : how did you manage to install/unpack Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK without having visual studio 5.0 ?

[cortez]

ok, so we might not see free/inexpensive software again... if i see a good/quality app, i certainly don't mind paying the developer for his/her work.

let me ask a different question: what (if any) benefits are there to using Visual Studio 2005 with the new SDK? for example, will Smartphone apps (for WM 2005) behave differently, use less memory, be more stable? can they be used on Smartphones and PocketPC's? thanks in advance for your answers.

[SnozBerries]

After further consideration, I will let Robert Levy reply with his findings.

[darrylb]

For info about the new VS2005 offerings, check out http://blogs.msdn.com/smcbreen/archi...05/405711.aspx.

As for pricing - it hasn't been announced yet, but I suspect the entry level will be well below that already stated.

There is an independant emulator available for download http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/w...w/default.aspx

Personally - I dont think that this will be a big deal. Developing a product that is market ready is not something that many non-developers do anyway, and most who are capable of developing and releasing an app to the market will either have the tools or will be willing to pay the relatively small price to get them anyway (looking at the ROI, etc).

Free apps will always be there and free apps that are worth having require serious development effort anyway.

Feel free to disagree... I'm still forming an opinion and this is an interesting debate.