I’m not so sure I’d agree that ebooks cost too much. I wouldn’t buy them by the handfuls, like I do with old $1.00 to $3.00 used paperbacks, at the current costs, but many are around the same price as a new mass market paperback. I don’t buy new paperbacks by handful either.
I dont think anyone said ebooks cost too much. They just cost too much for what you get (i.e. piles of restrictions) When I buy an e-book at full price, I expect to get as much value as I would get from a full price paper-book.
I would gladly pay less for a restricted version, e.g one that times out after one month, as long as less is much less, like 5-10 times less. I would feel that akin to hiring a movie, which costs 5-10 times less than buying the same movie on DVD. I would also feel it would be wrong to make a copy of such a book, the same way its wrong to copy a hired movie. However when I buy something outright, it should be mine to do with what I want.
And just remember, if DRM ebooks take of in the current format, you will NEVER be able to buy those same books second hand, as the books will be tied to a device (Microsoft) or person (PDM). Something to think about.
Otherwise, I'm not surprised when the corps attack people who endanger their business model. I just dont applaud when it happens. Especially when the software in question helps to ensure what I feel to be my natural rights
I keep getting the feeling you are a child, as value for money obviously have no meaning to you. So should we be confiscating your full price car after one year, just because houses cost 10 times more, and you are prepared to pay for that. Stupid analogy, but your make about as much sense. :frusty:
Surur
Old enough to wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. That, and worry about why the mermaids won’t sing to me. :razzing:
As for not having no value for money, I already stated that I don’t agree that ebooks cost too much, too much to buy handfuls, yes, but otherwise not too much; so maybe, to cut my statements short, I just make more of it than you do, and overly fret about the permanence of a $7.99 ebook.
I’m not so sure I’d agree that ebooks cost too much. I wouldn’t buy them by the handfuls, like I do with old $1.00 to $3.00 used paperbacks, at the current costs, but many are around the same price as a new mass market paperback. I don’t buy new paperbacks by handful either.
If eBooks had the same rights as paper books, I could almost see paying the same amount (though it still is hard to believe it costs as much to produce a text file as a physical item).
But the complaints here are usually that not only do eBooks cost the same (or sometimes MORE) than the paper copy, they're "less good" because you can't read them how you want, you can't sell them, you can't loan them... Basically, you're paying more to be able to do less than you could with paperbacks.
Old enough to wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. That, and worry about why the mermaids won’t sing to me. :razzing:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Mont
As for not having no value for money, I already stated that I don’t agree that ebooks cost too much, too much to buy handfuls, yes, but otherwise not too much; so maybe, to cut my statements short, I just make more of it than you do, and overly fret about the permanence of a $7.99 ebook.
Ah that explains it. You must be rich . The alternative (that you are a sufferer of Stockholm synfrome, and have internalized the values of your DRM captors) is just too scary to think about.
Personally I feel e-books should be significantly cheaper, ESPECIALLY if they are going to be more limited than a paperback.
When I buy an e-book, a number of things are happening. First, I am saving publishing costs. While there is cost involved in authoring and editing an e-book for distribution, this is pretty much a one time cost, and then the book can be duplicated for little to no cost each time it is purchased. For a paperback there is cost involved for every printing.
Second distribution. While server space and maintenance does cost money, the cost is significantly lower than the current distribution methods for paperbacks. Even the publishers admit that, they see a rosy future if they can get DRM nailed down, where their profits will be higher than ever because of cost savings for distribution.
Third, licensing. I am only able to read the book myself with DRM in its current form. If I want to share the book with a friend, I would nearly always have to also share my reading platform. I cannot buy e-books on the secondary second hand market. I cannot get e-books at the library. These are all limitations which reduce the value of an e-book over a paperback.
So if cost are minimal for publishers, and distribution is cheaper, and I have less rights to the final product, then absolutely, it should be cheaper. I have bought e-books many times, but mostly because I hope to help show that there is demand for them. However I am generally not a happy customer when I could have bought the book for the same or cheaper than a paperback, knowing that the publisher is making more on the deal.
So if all this is the case, then why aren't they cheaper? 2 reasons, piracy and greed. Because e-books are so easy to copy (even with DRM, which is broken constantly) the publishers need to make more on each sale in order to cover the lost revenues. Greed because the publishers see this as a way to increase profits, by charging the same even though their costs are less.
When I buy a book I am NOT renting it. I am a collector. I collected books before digital copies were available, and I collect books in their digital form. I want to be able to share books I love with family members. When my daughters get old enough, there are books I want them to read. In a paper world I just give them the paperback. In the world the publishers are trying to build, they would have to buy the book all over again. That is not acceptable.
If publishers want a system where we rent books instead of buying them, then they should be $1 to $2 for a rental. That is reasonable. I am not going to rent a book for $16 though. For that price I need to own the book, and be able to do with it all the things I can currently do with a paper book. Otherwise the value is way out of reasonable proportion.
As some-one expressed before, the actual cost of a book has less to do with the costs of production (else why would they pulp books that dont sell, as apposed to giving them away) than the cost the market will bear. The problem is that e-books have the potential of disrupting the established business model of the publishing houses, in that it allows direct author to buyer publishing model at little expense. No wonder they are not encouraging the medium with lower prices (which they could easily afford).
In internet ebook publishing, what is missing is actually what a store front provides, promotion. Only if the internet can allow a good book to bubble up from the dross in the world, and become part of the awareness of a global audience, can it fully supplant the publishing houses.
I think the best way to do this is some kind of moderation system (ala Slashdot) where the best books rise to the top. I was in fact quite disappointed at the crudity of the fiction-wise system, as it did not allow sorting by score etc, but it may be a good start.
The second thing which need to change is more ubiquitous reader clients. I think this will be sorted by the rise of smartphones, and I hope some-one takes a chance soon on a ebook reader for symbian for example. People talk about the evils of small screen reading, but the main reason for the existence of smartphones is actually text, in the form of WAP, SMS and the internet. It might be alot more popular than people think it will be. (as an example, look at ring tones. They dont exactly preserve the hifi quality of a song, but people are often willing to pay many pounds for having the very degraded version of the tunes on their phone.)
Anyway, things may change much for the better soon, as I cant see things standing still for the next 5 years.
I don't believe the boycott by the knowledgeable approach will work as long as there are people who can tolerate the problems and trudge through it (early adopters anonymous). These people are buying enough ebooks in .LIT format so that publishers use it.
There is very little financial incentive for them to go DRM-less... the cost -- it's passed to the consumer. And the nightmare stories of how widespread piracy is will just keep them spending money on snake oil.
I relate this to copy protection on early computers... and like copy protection, DRM will probably always be with us.
Fortunately, most software now is not copyprotected. And it's not because of boycotts.. it's because copy protection became a torture for the honest folk.
The availability of convert lit has started down that path. However, Unlike tools like "locksmith" in the 80s, this time, the government is stepping in. Despite that, each revision of convert lit makes microsoft squirm. It makes everyone go through activation hoops. How long before Microsoft's code doesn't work on enough legit systems before everyone is irritated? At the same time, a lightbulb might go off in publisher's heads "you know.. our books WERE effectively unprotected, and they didn't end up widely pirated".
Finally, I'd have to sort of agree with the Original Poster -- IF I was buying a service and using a tool to enhance that, it's ethically questionable at best. Don't boost your cable modem speeds. However, the sites all tell me I'm buying a book, and I'm paying near or above paperback prices. I give someone money and get a file, I find it troubling that someones think they still should have control over that file. Sure, if I am selling copies of it -- come after me, and you know how much in damages to press for based on the money that I got. But if I'm converting it to a unsupported device (*cough* Gemstar *cough*), what business is it of Microsoft's or the US governments?
Although I'm sure the original post was a troll, there are a lot of interesting questions raised.
I personally believe that I can do what I like with a file that I purchase, assuming it stays in one of my own computers. I also find it hard to believe that there is a huge amount of eBook piracy, they are not that popular in the first place.
The strange thing is, I have bought a lot of .lit books, just because of ConvertLit. I use Mobipocket Reader for reading my books but I prefer them to be DMS free. I therefore buy the .lit version and use ConvertLit to make an unprotected MP book. If ConvertLit is not available in future, I will just buy the books in MP format.
If I cannot convert the book to a format of my choice, I would not dream of buying a .lit book. I don't read books on my Laptop or desktop, only my PPC. How do I know that I will be using an MS device a year from now? No-one can say for sure that they will, so why buy a book that may be unreadable when you upgrade.
Unless MS starts to make their system easier to use, and make versions for POS and Linux devices as well, I would suggest that it is nuts to buy a book in .lit format, unless the means exists to change the file to text or HTML.
eBooks cost as much as print books, they should be as portable too.
PPC and Palm devices are so great for reading it's a shame that they are not promoted as such. Until I came to this site, I never even thought I could use my PPC for reading. Now my wife is cross with me just because I am reading until late every night. (Must keep up with what Robb, Jon, Jaime and all those guys are doing - shame about Jaime's hand!).
eBooks are suffering from crap marketing by all the companies in the handheld business. I just hope they get their collective act together.
Re: Are you serious?
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