I can see you're point on memory constraints. However, it doesn't negate the fact that I may want to do more than one thing at a time. Like read an ebook while waiting for my email or a webpage to download.
Curious... how does the Palm OS handle playing music while doing anything else?
Yeah, but you can already do that on the Treo right now!! :?
I feel that Jeff is mistaken; I see his point, but find it fallacious and misleading, besides being overly servile to the motives and beliefs of Palm engineers.
Indeed, I too believe he is wrong in this matter. Every other mobile OS enables all applications to multitask -- Symbian, Linux, and Windows Mobile. Only Palm has this insistence on leaving everything up to developers. Not only does it make end-users dependent on developers in implementing these features, which they may not, but it adds to the work of developers. Worse, it allows for a nonuniform implementation.
They're not equivalent, as he implies. While WM's multitasking has its share of problems, the OS-level multitasking is de facto in the computer industry, both mobile and desktop, for a good reason.
--janak
First of all, Palm (soon to be formerly PalmOne) is the hardware unit, not the OS part. Secondly PalmSource[ is the one that develops the OS and it has already developed an multitasking/multithreading os called Cobalt many months ago. Unfortunately, besides the Oswin smartphone, there haven't been any cobalt devices to hit the market yet...
So the hair-splitting continues? PPC/WM are the OS... or the hardware? Oh, wait, there are over 20 OEMs making PPCs, and they all multi-task. Fine, that part's clear. Now... pa1mOne and/or PalmSource or ¶@1m or whatever, a schizoid mess frankly, is leaving established users wondering what the heck is going on with the business, the new/old/un-available OS... not much fun, it seems.
I am less than impressed with Microsoft's vision for the PPC, especially in terms of market awareness efforts, but variety and potency are at least growing. My investment in time with the platform is seemingly not soon to become irrelevant. Palm, in contrast, seems to be cutting losses here and there, taking big hits like Sony bailing, and not bothering to fully serve their public (as delivery of an improved OS might). Enormous money will be spent in the.next few years converting back to the old 'Palm' label. A bit of relief is most of what I feel; I came so close to going with a Palm as my first computing device back in 2000.
Yeah, but you can already do that on the Treo right now!! :?
From what I've heard, the multitasking on the Treo is limited at best. I've heard lots of complaints of music skipping when anything heavy is done...?
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Secondly PalmSource[ is the one that develops the OS and it has already developed an multitasking/multithreading os called Cobalt many months ago.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Cobalt doesn't expose more of the multitasking, e.g., applications still have to be designed to run in the background. In my opinion, that defeats the purpose.
The fact of the matter is that PalmSource themselves has admitted that the current OS (in any version) simply does not cut it anymore.
Thats why they're running to Linux to take them into the future (or is it the present?).
PalmOS was okay as an organizer platform. Just like the stuff on my v600 was okay for a dumb phone(okay I hated the v600, but Nokias are generally okay).
Like many companies they're going to turn their future over to the Open source community for survival.
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So the hair-splitting continues? PPC/WM are the OS... or the hardware?
Splitting hairs? :? HUH? I'm saying there are two companies here that's all. Blame PalmOne (Palm) about the hardware if you want, and blame PalmSource for the OS.
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Palm, in contrast, seems to be cutting losses here and there, taking big hits like Sony bailing, and not bothering to fully serve their public (as delivery of an improved OS might). Enormous money will be spent in the.next few years converting back to the old 'Palm' label. A bit of relief is most of what I feel; I came so close to going with a Palm as my first computing device back in 2000.
Again, the confusion about the palms...well I guess this is a prime example of why PalmOne bought back the 'Palm" brand for ~30 million (not too much imo actually). Also, Sony bailed out of the entire pda market, not just palmos. This was of course bad for the palmos platform, but really has no bearing on what PalmOne does. PalmSource did deliver a new OS nearly 14 months ago, but no lisencee has yet released a cobalt based device. Blame this on PalmSource for failing to market their product well.
From what I've heard, the multitasking on the Treo is limited at best. I've heard lots of complaints of music skipping when anything heavy is done...?
That's not realy accurate. Most of the skipping users refer to is while using Ptunes. However the bundled Real player, while not as fully featured as Ptunes (and as a result not as proc intensive), I've found is much much better for backround playback with hardly any skipping at all.
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Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Cobalt doesn't expose more of the multitasking, e.g., applications still have to be designed to run in the background. In my opinion, that defeats the purpose.
--janak
Jeff Kirvin actually had a very nice article explaining the multithreading methods used in Cobalt:
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In Cobalt, applications are written to run in multiple "threads". This means that instead of having one big program, you have two or more mini-programs working together but somewhat independently. A music player would have one thread to control the main interface screen, a different thread to actually decode and play music, and perhaps a third to pop up a little mini-console to control the player when the main screen isn't your current application. A web browser would have one thread for displaying web pages and a different thread for going out on the web and fetching those pages into your local cache. The background threads of these applications (the fetch process for the browser and the decode/play process for the music player) tend to be far smaller and more efficient than entire applications to do the same thing.
According to Palmsource, it really is only a matter of simple recompile for most apps following "proper palmos protocols" to take advantage of multithreading. Thus I think your arguement is a bit overblown quite frankly...
The fact of the matter is that PalmSource themselves has admitted that the current OS (in any version) simply does not cut it anymore.
Thats why they're running to Linux to take them into the future (or is it the present?).
PalmOS was okay as an organizer platform. Just like the stuff on my v600 was okay for a dumb phone(okay I hated the v600, but Nokias are generally okay).
Like many companies they're going to turn their future over to the Open source community for survival.
Jeff Kirvin actually had a very nice article explaining the multithreading methods used in Cobalt:
Exactly -- that just summarizes the multithreading capabilities of Cobalt and confirms my suspicions. Again, it's up to the developer to split their program into threads and make sure certain ones have flags set for background operation. While this is a workable solution, it harkens back, in some ways, to the days of cooperative multitasking -- that is, onus on the developer to ensure their program multitasks properly. Most of the rest of the industry has moved on to having the OS provide multitasking services for all applications while allowing applications some finer-grained control when they need to move their priority up and down. This reduces the dependence on the developer.
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Originally Posted by mangochutneyman
IMO that explains really why there hasn't been any Cobalt based device yet from PalmOne...
I don't see how you're really disagreeing with our points in that post. :P The fact of the matter is that Cobalt, as it stood in 6.0, was effectively DOA for both PalmOne and other licensees, be it because it's lacking the necessary Smartphone APIs or for other reasons. Compare this to Microsoft, which has maintained tight control on the OS and has readily released updates to the entire platform, making it easy for OEM customization and deployment.
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