What difference does it make whether the software is stored in RAM or ROM. It gets the job done, and it works much more seamlessly with Microsoft's Office software than PPC.
For the simple reason if I need to send a document or spreadsheet to another Pocket PC user, I know darn well they can open it. With Palm, you don't know, so it inhibits productivity.
It is also another thing for IT Admins to install and configure for a mass deployment.
SOrt of funny hearing the Palm crowd, the crowd that 2 years ago said "you don't need spreadsheets and documents on the device. It is about the PIM stupid" and today go "Oh, well, not only do you need it, but it has to have this level of functionality."
Well I find Foo's counterpoints refreshing. I may not agree with them all – but it is goof to think about these things. MS ALSWAYS performs best in second place. Yes – where is the PPC version of all those lovely Sony toys. Where are our 480x320, or even 640x320 screens. Palm has a larger market share – and many people will continue to buy the market leader. (Though I have hopes to entice a few upgraders over to the light side of the force. :flasingsmile:
The latest version of PCPro in the UK just came out – 18 different handhelds reviewed – who won? The Tungsten T! It got a features score of 119, while the Toshiba e740 got 114 and the IPAQ 3970 got 114. Huh??????? What WHERE they smoking? :shocked!: :confused totally: :drinking: :crazyeyes:
Well we could go on and on so I will end on this note: FOO I am right and you are wrong! :twisted: j/k in the end I guess we can agree to disagree and let the market decide. I am going to bookmark this thread and in 6 months we can revisit and see who was right. I firmly believe that MS' no.1 priority was to get price competitive and take that edge from Palm, next will be design/features. You spoke of OS 6 and I sure that will be another 18 months before we actually see it (come on OS 5 took like forever to come out and they OS 6 is the big jump? When is it going to come out .... when we land on Mars?) We haven't even seen a hint of what MS will release but I am every bit as sure that it will be big based on the fact they have been so tight lipped. PPC 2k2 was incremental upgrade and it made big strides can you imagine what a full upgrade by MS will be like? I think it will make big waves by including features people want and need, all at a now more affordable price than Palm.
Isn't it possible that MS strategy is partly motivated at protecting their cash cow, Windows .
Your second comment here contradicts your first. The second is correct.
Microsoft is all about playing defense and protecting the sacred cow. Windows.
That is why they had to create and give away a browser that runs only under Windows, not Linux like Netscape would.
That is why they have Word, and the Office Suites, and the PPC. When Palm introduce the Audrey and it looked like they could really go somewhere as an operating system producer, Microsoft stepped in. They do not care about PPC, phones, Office or any of the rest. It is all there to keep the money flowing in from Windows/DOS.
Just my opinoin, but it fits with every move they have ever made.
="entropy1980. Besides if Palm was doing so well why the heck do they lose money every quarter
: :roll: Palm is winning because they are losing less? :lol:
That high end is getting to the price of a laptop. The enterprise market would far rather pay $1000 for each of their guys to have a laptop (which they carry in their brief case anyway, not their pocket) than $800 for a Ipaq 5900 with WiFi card, 128meg flash card for backups, and software that still won't do what the really want.
Plus, as I've been harping on for a while now, I'm sure MSFT is not that far off from releasing a new version of PPC -- one that will (IMHO) take advantage of Xscale -- and when that new version comes out, it will do for market share what PPC2002 did ... make it go up substantially.
Let's face it, Microsoft is in this for the long haul! They will "refuse to lose". They've got a greater depth of knowledge and resources and Palm licensees will not maintain their market share for much longer. So it seems a bit unrealistic to say Palm will never drop below PPC...
!!
Wish I didn't have to agree. Wish I could see it Foo's way. But, I think you are probably right. How can Palm compete with an OS maker with MS resources, both intellectual and finanacial?
For now, the most likely thing I see is that both Palm and PPC may die as phones take the low end functions and price points and OQOs, and subnotebooks at every lower price points take the $500+ market.
What puzzles me is the complete lack of any new or worthy model Palm has between the $99 Zire and the $499 Tungsten? Think Palm has a M130 replacement to surprise us with? Or are they going to sit back and let the PPC overproduction eat the PPC market out from under itself?
Yesterday, I was looking back at our predictions for the year in an old thread at PDA Buzz (started by his Fooness, his own self). No one predicted PPCs at $200 to $300. Compaq, Toshiba, and ViewSonic surely intended to be selling their low end models for $400, not $300 and less. Bet Palm loses less per unit selling M130s at $150 this Christmast than Compaq does selling those h1910s, but Palm can no longer afford to lose money on anything. HP, Dell, Toshiba, and surely Microsoft can.
Yesterday, I was looking back at our predictions for the year in an old thread at PDA Buzz (started by his Fooness, his own self)..
Ha! I forgot about that thread. I'll have to post it here next month. All in all, I did pretty damn good. Sony didn't quite mop the floor with PPC, but it did surpass it in sales (Sony recently stole the number two slot away from HP). I was right about Handspring. They did receive a cash infusion (from Qualcomm) and they did change their focus (to communicators). And this was somewhat of a recovery year for Palm. They regained traction in the market...they are reorganizing and spinning off the OS division. I hit the nail on the head with Casio...they did leave the PPC market.
Not too shabby.
__________________
Kent Pribbernow Elitist Snob, Contributing writer for Wired's Cult of Mac
I think there are three determining factors in the average persons choice of PDA - price, features and comfort. The relative values of each of those varies for each person but for a majority 'price' is a greater consideration than the other two. Once you have a PDA you can afford, fulfilling at least one of the other two criteria is enough.
Palm has provided a level of comfort to those who feel a high feature set is unaffordable and so go for the simple PIM model that Palm does so well.
But - what happens when a high feature set is made affordable - e.g. with a Dell Pocket PC? The price is OK, the feature set is good and the OS is recognisable (and, therefore, comfortable). What about Palm OS devices with a high feature set? These suddenly become the ones that are unaffordable - and the Palm OS is not a comfortable one when used with high end features (my opinion yes - but it never ceases to amaze me how colleagues with Palms seem reluctant to explore what they are capable of - and often do things on their Palms the hard way - can pick up my Loox or iPAQ and find their way about it with enthusiasm and ease!)
So the market becomes stratified -
at the bottom - Palm Zire - cheap, comfortable in regards to what it is good at (PIM), high feature set sacrificed.
Lower middle - Dell and similar low-end Pocket PC as they come - cheap enough for many, comfortable to use and high specced.
Upper middle - Palm Tungsten and most Pocket PCs - an battle for hearts and minds between differing high end feature sets and differing areas of comfort - all at a roughly similar price.
High end - Sony NX-70V and iPAQ 5450 - appealing to enthusiasts, those that want something different, certain corporate markets etc. - backed by higher profits and remarkably efficient marketing...
Then - off in a place all of their own (since I would defy anyone to predict where this market segemnt is going...) - PDA Phones...
Does this mean that Pocket PCs will dominate? No. But I do believe it means the market is opening right up and Pocket PCs and Palm OS devices will compete on a more equal footing.
Increase in market share by Palm is meaningless at the moment. A $99 Zire, along with the 'aren't they cool' Clies (with all of Sony's marketing skills behind them) and the novelty of the Tungsten (rapidly wearing off) will probably boost Palm further still - but given time, and changes in the Pocket PC portfolio, this WILL change...
Price + platform popularity (ubiquity) + largest volume of third party software = winning platform. In the case of Zire...it's cheap, and it runs PalmOS.
I will grant you there is more freeware and so on available for the Palm OS.
Quote:
Really? That's odd. I haven't seen any innovation from the PPC camp since the e740. IMO, PPCs are getting very boring. Just a bunch of clone look-a-likes.
I don't know... I think there are more good choices than ever before. And having just migrated from the Palm OS camp, I have to say that most of them are also boring clone look-alikes.
Especially when you are reading them in Europe and know that there is a HUGE difference between the states and Europe when it comes to market share!
But please guys go on and try to predict what is on our plate for the next 10 yrs or so :wink: I for one will be reading it with great interest (not to mention pleasure, brings back the Amiga vs ST days, Netscape vs IE and Windows vs Apple ahhhhh and we know what happened with the latter two... <lol> )
my personal thoughts on this?
I for one would've put my money on the PocketPC in a heartbeat when you would have asked like say a year ago... At the moment I'm not so sure anymore... I see SERIOUS lack in developement on the PocketPC side both on the Hardware as well on the OS side. I still can't believe the resolution on a PocketPC (or CE Handheld for that matter) hasn't changed anything for the last 3 yrs (and I'm saying 3yrs to be on the save side since it must actually be longer). I can't believe that we still are working on a platform based on WinCE 3.0 while all M$ preaches is .NET. Is that because we skip a version and we will get WinCE 5.0 with the next pocketpc version, or is that because M$ lost interest? What about the office compatibility? I mean Microsoft should feel embarresed to say the least that Palm OS based devices can handle documents better than their own OS based devices!
:drinking: :crazyeyes:
Re: Another thought
Linear Mode
