[ThomasC22]

My thoughts are that Symbian, although much further entrenched then alot think, is still toast in the long run.

The problem is multi-pronged.

1 - An OS without a shell has no identity and so is usually not embraced. It's true, people think visually and as OS without a shell to attach it to has not mind share value.

2 - The Big Phone Manufacturers (can't call them the big three anymore because Samsung is #3 now) aren't completely committed. Sony-Ericson is doing work with Microsoft, Motorola uses it's own technology in several of it's phones, etc...

3 - The Big Phone Manufacturers are falling out of favor. In the U.S. it's hard to get a Nokia phone these days.

Those three problems I think are the biggest (#2 being the absolute biggest in my opinion), as far as Symbian on a PDA, that's already taken a pretty big fall, even in Europe, so I doubt that's going to work out (especially since the PPC has been gaining Marketshare in huge strides in Europe).

[ThomasC22]

My thoughts are that Symbian, although much further entrenched then alot think, is still toast in the long run.

The problem is multi-pronged.

1 - An OS without a shell has no identity and so is usually not embraced. It's true, people think visually and as OS without a shell to attach it to has not mind share value.

2 - The Big Phone Manufacturers (can't call them the big three anymore because Samsung is #3 now) aren't completely committed. Sony-Ericson is doing work with Microsoft, Motorola uses it's own technology in several of it's phones, etc...

3 - The Big Phone Manufacturers are falling out of favor. In the U.S. it's hard to get a Nokia phone these days.

Those three problems I think are the biggest (#2 being the absolute biggest in my opinion), as far as Symbian on a PDA, that's already taken a pretty big fall, even in Europe, so I doubt that's going to work out (especially since the PPC has been gaining Marketshare in huge strides in Europe).

[Janak Parekh]

Originally Posted by Timothy Rapson

Snotty comments about the future of Symbian will not make them less successful nor make the long delayed MS Smartphone inniative successful.

Wait a sec. Where does it say any of these phones are Symbian? Looks more like Nokia's proprietary OS to me, which is absolutely a dead-end OS.

--bdj

[Rafe]

If Symbian is the OS referred to in the post then here is something of a response.

Please bear in mind that I come from the other side of the fence, that is to say I'm a bliever in Symbian rather than Micrsoft. As far as I'm concerned we're all entitled to are different opinions. I admin the All About Symbian website so thats my background.

I'd be interested to hear why you think Symbian (or maybe you refer to Series 60 ) as a crippled OS. I would argue that it considerably more advanced than the MS equivalent (think resources and supported feature sets).

Someone said that they felt the UI lack of identy might be a problem. I don't agree. Most people won't care what sort of OS it is so long as it works for them. the majority of users are not the power usesr (the ones who tend to frequent sites such as these). That said the Series 60 is starting to build up some serious momentum. It now has 3 announced devices (fairly equiavlent to MS Smartphone I think), and Siemens has at leats on handset due before the end of the year.

Someone commented on manufacturers OS, and actually Symbian analysis tend to agree that the biggest threat comes not from MS but internal company OS's such as NOS, or MOS.

The Nokia 7650 has sold 1 million units, I don't know the sale figures for anyone PPC, but one suspects that is far more tahn a single model (I assume if you lumped all the IPAQ models to gether you might get near that figure). These sales have been achieved in less than 3 months. With the 3650 and n-gage just round the corner Nokia are going to be shipping upwards of 10 million of these handsets with Series 60 next year. Gives you pause for thought eh?

Rafe

[Fishie]

These devices sell on theyre COOL factor and not on the OS they carry, people who buy these things dont care about stuff like that, they just want something that is regarded as being cool, the exclusive Sega Mobile games wich will come on probably property memory cards wont hurt it either.

[Timothy Rapson]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyJ

Wait a sec. Where does it say any of these phones are Symbian? Looks more like Nokia's proprietary OS to me, which is absolutely a dead-end OS.

--bdj

Well, at first I smacked my head and thought. Well, you got me there. He is pointing at models that are mostly regular 2 and 2.5 generation phones; models that might now be called dumb phones. In that case, Andy is saying a phone with no OS at all has a dead end OS.

Of course, no one expects to surf the Web or do word processing and spread sheets on a micro Java enabled phone. So at least it works without resetting and they sell these things for $99. Some of the Nokia models do run Symbian and that is where the OS is really a question.

To call the current non-Symbian Nokia phones, phones with a dead end OS is like calling a pedal powered bicycle a dead end Harley. Of course my bicycle will never compete with a Harley, what is the point? Some people may want a bicycle rather than pay for gas, license, and all the rest. Why knock the simpler Nokia for not being a Smart Phone? The proper comparison with Smartphones that Andy's comment implies (by mentioning an OS) is the new Nokia Symbian lineup.

[Sheynk]

I couldnt have put it better myself, Nokia is know for its VERY simply OS and that we are comparing completely different platforms. Why did Nokia beat erricson for the longest time, because of simplicity. To be honest with you, I have a simple nokia that I use to call people. That is it. If I was a proffesional and needed GPRS internet access, I would get the XDA or ipaq/bluetooth, or laptop/ricochet-type service.

[boohooboyblahblah]

I wonder if msft isn't a little happy to see this happen. If nokia can mount a good offense against the Gameboy Advance, which isn't likely, then it will help distract them that much more from the console market. And xbox would have a little help against nintendo.

Thoughts?

[Fishie]

Originally Posted by boohooboyblahblah

I wonder if msft isn't a little happy to see this happen. If nokia can mount a good offense against the Gameboy Advance, which isn't likely, then it will help distract them that much more from the console market. And xbox would have a little help against nintendo.

Thoughts?

Nah not likely, the homeconsole bussuines is a verry different beast from the handheld console bussuines and the same rules dont apply.
This phone handheld also is not likely to break Nintendo´s handheld gaming monopoly.
As much as we would like to think otherwise the PPC and now this Nokio phone are not perceived as competing by the general populace and for now and the immediate future will not be canibalising eachothers sales.
The GBA handheld market consists of hunderds of big name developers who sometimes work with teams as large as 60 people for over a year on a single game(Final Fantasy tactics for GBA) while on PPC or cellphones its often a single guy writing a game in a few weeks at most.
Like I said totally different markets wich have verry little in common demographicly speaking.

[Landis]

Originally Posted by Fishie

Like I said totally different markets wich have verry little in common demographicly speaking.

I think there is more crossover there than you think. I love my GBA and my PPC! The controls issue is something that has limited the appeal of console style games on the PPC and phones.

The gaming wireless phone has a lot of potential. I think Nokia has compromised too much on phone ergonomics though with this design. I have no hands on experience with games on Symbian phones, so I can't comment their potential. I do know that Smarphone 2002 games are console fast and beg for console controls.

Here is my proposal for a gaming Smartphone2002. Imagine an Orange SPV with the screen moved down against a more substantial direction pad so the screen is basically in the middle of the phone. Now rotate the phone 90 degrees to the right so you have horizontal orientation. Add A and B buttons in the upper right corner above the speaker. Give it some subtle shoulder buttons. Viola!

Works like a conventional Smartphone 2002 till a full screen game is started. Games can be programmed to run in the conventional orientation or horizontally when installed on a GamePhone (TM) :wink:

What do you think?

[JMountford]

OK somehow we got onto gaming on a portable platform. I am not a hardcore gamer. I have an Xbox and a Sega Saturn. The kids have a PS1. We do not really play games on the pc as the controls are a huge issue. Games should be easy and fun to play and not use all the keys on the keyboard.

Gaming on a PPC or even Smartphone could work really well I think if some OEM designed a device more geared toward gaming, at the very least nine way control pads and multitap abilities.

The PPC device itself is way powerful enough to do some pretty major handheld gaming.