The more I think about it the more I see I will NEVER touch a WiMp5 device, even with a 10 ft pole :twisted:.
Well, it seems that my experience with WM2005 has been significantly better than your opinion of it would suggest.
I'm not so much talking about experience but rather facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
Just a few comments:
Yes, it's true that persistent storage predated WM2005 (although it wasn't "always" there, as early Pocket PCs such as the Cassiopeia E-115 didn't have it).
That's correct, However if you want to talk about the 2-3 devices that make the 1% of pre-WiMp5 devices, that's fine but I'll stick with the overwhealming generality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
However, taken in the context of the entire article, I think it's clear that my point is that persistent storage is used in a significantly different way in WM2005 than in earlier WM versions, ...
Your performance report based on your experience with the Axim differs significantly from my experience with the N560. I just loaded Agenda Fusion, Resco File Explorer and Word Mobile... AF loaded in about 4 seconds, while the other 2 loaded in about a second. And switching between them using Wisbar Advance 2 is instantaneous. I find the overall experience performance-wise to be very comparable to the 720, with WM2003 SE.
Great to hear it, however there are several lacking features and severe design faults I will not embark into since this is a device review, not the OS review (I mentionned it briefly as is IS part of the device).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
Automatic backup is less than infallible, from my experience. I've been "smart" enough to have Sprite Backup run every weekend on my Pocket PCs, and it would occasionally fail to run with no warning or error message....
Well I've been "smart" enough not to trust automatic features and do manually backup my PIM data at least once a day after planning revision 8). And I add a complete manual backup around every week. I alway keep 2-3 sets on my CF card.
Also I put ALL my important data mainly on my 1GB CF card.
Data saved to a memory card is even MORE secure than in a non removable ROM storage. If you break your device chances are high the memory card will survive.
However expecting to retrieve information from the ROM is hopeless.
I'm not saying using the ROM to store everything is a bad thing, BUT to use ROM and NOT make it mandatory for manufacturers to use fast ROM (or for them to NOT test enough to realize they use awefully slow ROM) is a very unexcusable oversight to say the least.
Like with many things, in theory it's great, in practice they fail miserably on a few counts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
Regarding battery life and the numbers that you state, the 12 hours is a claim from FSC that's wildly optimistic. To the contrary, Mobile-review found that, under actual usage conditions, the 720 would last from 7-8 hours under light use to as low as 2 hours 45 min. under heavier load.
This is HALF-TRUTH, you haven't read the review carefully. They say precisely: "The LOOX 720 lasted for 7-8 hours at a common use (books, organizer, GPRS, some video and music) with an average backlight level." AND "Under the MP3 mode (the screen is on, the minimum frequency rate) the provided 11-12 hours on a single charge."
So they DO reach 12 hours WITH the screen ON; and you could expect even more with the screen tured off; that's generally what happens when you listen to music.
I personnally wouldn't consider " GPRS, some video and music" to be common use. Everybody will agree that telecommunication and video eats up a lot of battery.
Anyway YMMV. But they do reach 11-12 hours of continuous use. And it could reach an extra hour or two with the screen off.
8)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
It would seem that my usage is different from theirs, because I never achieved 7-8 hours of use with my 720 even with light usage (reading an e-book, for example). Perhaps at best I achieved 4 1/2 hours.
You might have had a defective battery. Or your watch was too slow 8).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
And as an update, since I've gotten more opportunity to use the N560, I think my 3 hour estimate was low... I'd probably raise it to at least 4 hours based on additional experience under comparable usage to the 720. So the N560 with a smaller battery is nearly comparable in battery life to the real life results of the 720 with the larger battery in a constant use situation, where the N560 has to refresh RAM constantly just like the 720.
This is where is becomes worrysome that the N560 only has a battery life of 3-4 hours on a light use mode. How much would it last with GPS on or while watching a video or surfing the web connected to a BT phone?
2 hours at best? 8O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
Once again, I reworded that part of the review to clarify that the longer battery life applies only when the unit is powered down and the WM2005 unit is not required to refresh RAM.
Again this is half truth and deception from MS programmers to justify their stupid thinking and awckward decisions.
Is there such a thing as a complete OFF state? How is it achieved?
If it's possible to do it but nobody does it in their daily activities, how good is it? because it would take waaaaay too much time to save everything, close everything (impossible directly as apps are required NOT to have a manual close funtion; you need to go in the settings control panel) before you can turn off the device completely; unless that's a menu option like with Win XP.
Likewise it would take 40 seconds and up to reboot, run regularly used apps and open data files; basically just like after a soft reset under e.g. WM03. (of course depends on device speed and architecture, number of plugins, startup programs, the size of your files, etc.)
A soft reset on my Axim X5 (I'll test it next week on my new PL 720 when I get it) takes 40 sec in standard configuration and short of 50 sec when launching PocketInformant afterwards.
How many times did you totally turn off your n560 as opposed to the "nap state"? Probably not even 1 in 10, most probably not even 1 in 20.
Most people will probably never use it in their daily activities. Maybe -just maybe- they'll use it when going on vacation (if they know and remember it's possible).
I think MS engineers totally mixed up the user experience between small smartphones and large PPCs. One handed operation means the device is unsecurely held in one hand while operating and typing is slow and cumbersome: even on my small smartphone most of the time I use both hands to firmly hold the device and type faster; so this one handed operation is over rated; at least it's too different on a large PPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Raeburn
I'll finish up by reiterating that my experience with WM5 on the N560 has been excellent, and I stand behind my positive evaluation of it. It's not perfect, but its performance is comparable to or better than that of the 720 in just about all areas.
Except very poor battery life that's half that of the 720 at best.
Except that it lacks many features found on the 720.
You can easily connect the 720 to a very small GT GPS device (that still will be accessible by other PPCs or smartphones when the 720 battery runs out. Nobody can access the integrated GPS in the N560 when you're stranded with a flat battery; you better bring a few spares along with you :lol
The fact that it adds GPS is far from placing it on par with the 720: what the 720 lacks you can add it, however what the N560 lacks you can NOT add it.
With the N560 you have to make compromises. You are forced to make them; I wouldn't.
PS: You still didn't tell us how to hold the device securely on the palm of your hands with fingers and thumb grasping the device all the while pressing those soft buttons.
To the best of my ability to determine, I believe it's the MS stack.
Thanks for the response. That's unfortunate about the BT stack. Something as simple as a obex BT file transfer is often a pain in the @#% with the MS stack.
MS really did jack up wm5 for the sake of 'security'. Thier BT stack is a real under-perfomer but at least they added the BT stereo audio profile.
I'm not so much talking about experience but rather facts.
That's all fine and good, but the very reason for reviews to exist is to reflect the experience of the reviewer as to how the product performs in actual use. Many important facets of a product can't be adequately (or sometimes even accurately) portrayed by spec sheets.
OK, let's get beyond the comparisons of apples to oranges (battery life of different devices under completely different settings) and see if we can get a more comparable scenario.
I've been able to find 2 reviews that use the same test on the 2 devices. The test is the SPB standard benchmark (maximum backlight, standard usage). Here are the links:
Now these results show the N560 to get just over 2 hours of battery life in this test, while the 720 gets 3 hours 12 minutes. Doesn't look good for the N560, does it?
However, the problem with this test and comparing across units is that maximum backlight is NOT a universal constant. And the fact of the matter is that the N560 at its brightest is significantly brighter (and therefore more power hungry) than the 720 at its brightest.
Here's the 2 at max brightness (N560 on the left):
I don't think anyone can contest the fact that the N560's screen is much brighter at max brightness. So how much can the N560's backlight brightness be lowered to make it comparable to the 720's maximum brightness (thereby making the load on the batteries due to backlight brightness more comparable between the 2 units)?
As you can see, the N560 is as bright (actually still a bit brighter) when set at 50% brightness as the 720 is at full brightness. According to SoloPalmari, when the N560 is reduced to 50% brightness with everything else the same on the standard test, the battery life increases to 2 hours 41 minutes. You can really go down one more notch on the N560 to gain even more time.
Pulling out my handy calculator, under these circumstances, the N560's battery life is 84% of the 720's. Not "half that of the 720 at best". And that's with a battery capacity for the N560 that's only 74% that of the 720 and a processor with a max speed that's 122% that of the 720, albeit with half the RAM to refresh. Overall, given the differences in hardware, I feel that these results show the N560 to be very competitive with the 720 when conditions are TRULY comparable. I found exactly the same situation in real life usage... used in the same way, the N560 is just a tick behind the 720 in battery life, but it's almost too close to call. BTW, that's with 2 different batteries for the 720 that I rotated between, with comparable life for both, so a defective battery is highly unlikely. And my watch works just fine, thanks very much.
Given the T-break results, since the N560's battery life is such a great concern to you, if you stress the 720 with something like Wi-Fi, you're not talking much more than 2 hours of battery life there as well. We're talking mere minutes of difference in battery life here between the 2 units, not hours.
Regarding the suspend mode vs. the "off" mode, suspend is done with a "brief press" of the Suspend/Resume button, while the off mode is achieved by pressing the same button for more than 1 second. Per the manual, "All programs are closed and the Pocket PC is completely switched off. The Pocket PC does not use any more power. You can store the Pocket PC for several weeks." FSC's claim for standby time is 500 hours from a fully charged state. As for the practical application of this, since I use my N560 mostly for work, many weekends I don't use it at all (I still use my 720 for my personal business). I don't make any special attempt to turn it off in any special way on Friday afternoon. The first thing I do on Monday morning is to put the unit in the cradle to synch. And every time, the charge light glows steady, meaning fully charged, meaning it did not discharge at all over the weekend. So for me, this aspect of WM2005 works exactly as claimed. Under the same circumstances, the 720 was at about 90 - 92% and it started charging as soon as I put it in the cradle on Monday morning.
At any rate, it's clear that I like the N560 and you don't. Fine, opinions are what they are. The 720 is a fine unit (I still like mine a lot) and I have no intention of trying to convince you to buy an N560 instead. But that doesn't change the fact that the N560 is also a fine unit. But apparently not the unit of choice for you. Which is your right. You've made your point, that depending on your viewpoint and usage, some of the differences between the N560 and 720 may be show-stoppers. Others, myself included, have different demands on and expectations of a PDA and therefore disagree with you as to what constitutes a show-stopper. Which is our right. So let's agree to disagree on our overall assessments and move on. Let's grant each other the courtesy of accepting each other's positions, even if we don't entirely agree with them.
And as an update, since I've gotten more opportunity to use the N560, I think my 3 hour estimate was low...
Well, don't forget that batteries frequently improve significantly after several full charge cycles, so first estimates always tend to be low. This is why I try to avoid precise battery measurements, especially on Pocket PC Phones.
Besides, even if you suspend a WM5 device, they frequently have longer standby life, because of both the lowering of the low-battery threshold and due to the fact that most WM5 devices have less RAM than their 2003 counterparts.
One other nit: the WM5 softkey design is, first and foremost, to support hardware buttons that are placed just under the LCD, as opposed to tapping the LCD itself. I suspect F/S decided not to include that with the N560 as that would be a significant redesign. However, if you do like one-handing and would prefer not to touch the screen, I do believe the application buttons can be remapped accordingly.
Overall, great review, Doug. Enjoy your new baby! 8)
I've noticed that Clove Technology supply a replacement 1200mAh battery for the N560.
Does anyone know if you can buy an extended battery that offers around double the capacity? I am planning to buy the N560 mainly for the GPS feature and would like to use it on walks. Ideally, I would like to the device to last 6 hours or more.
I have got one for my iPAQ 5450 which doubles the battery capacity to 2500mAh, and this allows me to use it with the screen on 50% brightness for about 9 hours.
a. a newer bluetooth stack (so that it does not fill up the memory every now and then)
b. a better camera (possibly two cameras to make video calling possible.. if for example, skype comes up with video calling for PPC as well).
That's all! Really!
I really think that CF is not dead... At least I haven't seen any DSLR with SD cards yet... That would seriously piss off millions of photographers around the world...
I have 3 CF adapters: GPS, 56K Modem and 100M LAN. Should I look for a newer LOOX without CF card???? Don't think so!
Wake up FSC! Make the correct marketing decisions! LOOX 720 was (and is) so great, why change course...
Bluetooth Stack
This is why I try to avoid precise battery measurements, especially on Pocket PC Phones.
Linear Mode
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