[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by sofene

The only I missed when my h3970 broke was Nevo. I was yet to come across any equipment with infra-red remote that it couldn't control or learn within seconds. It was the envy of most of my friends. Now if only the makers would offer it publicly for other pocket pcs. None of of these wishy-washy so called remote control applications has come anywhere near Nevo.

Well, Nevo-wise, I thought the same - before testing the alternatives. As it has turned out, some of the alternatives aren't at all worse. Some of them (especially the ones that are Philips Pronto-enabled - the Nevo online database is nothing compared to the online Pronto databases; the same stands for defining and drawing (!) custom GUI's) are better. You may want to read this thread on all these stuff.

BTW, I'll also review the new NoviiRemote ASAP.

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by sofene

The only I missed when my h3970 broke was Nevo. I was yet to come across any equipment with infra-red remote that it couldn't control or learn within seconds. It was the envy of most of my friends. Now if only the makers would offer it publicly for other pocket pcs. None of of these wishy-washy so called remote control applications has come anywhere near Nevo.

Well, Nevo-wise, I thought the same - before testing the alternatives. As it has turned out, some of the alternatives aren't at all worse. Some of them (especially the ones that are Philips Pronto-enabled - the Nevo online database is nothing compared to the online Pronto databases; the same stands for defining and drawing (!) custom GUI's) are better. You may want to read this thread on all these stuff.

BTW, I'll also review the new NoviiRemote ASAP.

[sofene]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

Well, Nevo-wise, I thought the same - before testing the alternatives. As it has turned out, some of the alternatives aren't at all worse. Some of them (especially the ones that are Philips Pronto-enabled - the Nevo online database is nothing compared to the online Pronto databases; the same stands for defining and drawing (!) custom GUI's) are better. You may want to read this thread on all these stuff.

BTW, I'll also review the new NoviiRemote ASAP.

Thank you for the very comprehensive roundup. I had read it when I was looking for an alternative to buying another ipaq just for Nevo. Unfortunately I came away with the impression that the alternatives were not there yet. Here is your comment on one of the best:

PdaWin TV remote controller 5.5

An outstanding app in that it's the only one reviewed program to read (about half of the tested, but it's still way better than the results of the competition) CCF files. It can also be operated with voice control, unlike all the other reviewed apps. It's also the only application that supports the iPAQ 2210 in CIR mode (other apps only use its IrDA mode with very limited range).

Accordind to your review, it was the only one that actually read ccf files and only about half. I actually downlaoded all the remote control apps that had trial versions and was not very impressed with their stored database, really scanty in most and at best not up to 10% of my Nevo database. I have not seen or dealt with ccf files so I have no idea how big the database is. But if there are no apps to reliably read/use them, then they wouldn't be too useful, would they?

All said, I am still waiting for a good Nevo substitute. Having tasted Nevo, I am really looking for something that can equal or exceed its capabilities. maybe I will take a second look.

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by sofene

Thank you for the very comprehensive roundup. I had read it when I was looking for an alternative to buying another ipaq just for Nevo. Unfortunately I came away with the impression that the alternatives were not there yet. Here is your comment on one of the best:

Accordind to your review, it was the only one that actually read ccf files and only about half. I actually downlaoded all the remote control apps that had trial versions and was not very impressed with their stored database, really scanty in most and at best not up to 10% of my Nevo database. I have not seen or dealt with ccf files so I have no idea how big the database is. But if there are no apps to reliably read/use them, then they wouldn't be too useful, would they?

All said, I am still waiting for a good Nevo substitute. Having tasted Nevo, I am really looking for something that can equal or exceed its capabilities. maybe I will take a second look.

Well, it depends on whether you need the direct (without any manual code import) import capabilities of the online databases or not. If you need, Nevo may indeed be better; its online database is, however, definitely less wide than that of Philips Pronto.

On the other hand, some of the other remote controller apps have an enrirely redrawable, definable user interface (and also toggling support), which Nevo lacks. (Nevo only supports button placement on a plain "dull" background - no extraordinary, hand-drawn buttons etc.)

I'm just working on a generic tutorial on CCF's and the advantages of custom-drawn GUI's - will keep this thread posted.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Originally Posted by Duncan

. . . TV and video remotes for the machines in our classrooms are like urban myths. . .
Me - I just turn my Loox on and never have to worry.

A good solution. :-) Equally, you never would have to worry about losing the remote. Now losing your PPC, There's something to worry about. ;-)

[bbarker]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

Well, it depends on whether you need the direct (without any manual code import) import capabilities of the online databases or not.

I don't really know what that means. I'm new to remote apps. I do want broad support of devices.

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

If you need, Nevo may indeed be better; its online database is, however, definitely less wide than that of Philips Pronto.

Is Philips Pronto a standard or a Web site, or what? Does it support only Philips devices?

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

On the other hand, some of the other remote controller apps have an enrirely redrawable, definable user interface (and also toggling support), which Nevo lacks. (Nevo only supports button placement on a plain "dull" background - no extraordinary, hand-drawn buttons etc.)

All I need is an app that makes it simple and easy to get started and use, without having to learn a lot about codes or standards or whatever. I don't care about customizing the UI if its only purpose is aesthetics. Is there a functional reason customization is an advantage?

Based on what I have said, is there an app that's suited to my needs?

I'm glad there are such knowledgable people as you here to help.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys

I'm just working on a generic tutorial on CCF's and the advantages of custom-drawn GUI's - will keep this thread posted.

Sounds good. Thanks for that.

[Menneisyys]

Originally Posted by bbarker

I don't really know what that means. I'm new to remote apps. I do want broad support of devices.

The existing, freely accessible Pronto(Pro) database (about 6300 CCF files – incidentally, CCF files are Pronto(Pro) files; they refer to the same thing) is much larger than that of myNevo. I've done quite much comparison between these databases (mostly by searching for files of my gadgets) and have almost always found the Pronto(Pro) database better.

This is no wonder because Pronto(Pro) files are developed by the entire world (it's the de facto standard of high-end remote controllers), unlike Nevo, which is 1, WinCE-only 2, without user contribution. Nothing can be better than a user community of thousands of people, all uploading their handmade/hand-drawn CCF files

There is another difference between the two formats. Nevo doesn't support "real" skins with arbitrarily sized/shaped buttons/controls and any background skin; Pronto does. They're just incomparable in this respect. In Pronto, you can fully reproduce the shape/button layout of your remote controller, with added icons/anything. In Nevo, this is impossible. Some of the, Pronto(pro)-compliant remote apps, therefore, give a much better experience than Nevo in this respect - Pronto(Pro) GUI's are much more natural than those of Nevo. (In other respects, they may be far more restricted. For example, neither of them support the multiuser/multiroom/any number of the same-class devices configuration of Nevo; also, their main screen is, in my opinion, far uglier than that of Nevo.)

(Incidentally, I've also checked how many files the Pronto NG archive contains. NG is the New Generation of the Philips Pronto series and (still) not supported by any Pocket PC client or Tonto, the best CCF editor/converter. Its PCF files can't be converted into "old" CCF files either. Fortunately, it's "only" 1000 files, as opposed to the 7000 files of the PPC-compatible Pronto(Pro). That is, we don't lose much by not (yet?) having Pronto NG compatibility on the Pocket PC.)

Originally Posted by bbarker

Is Philips Pronto a standard or a Web site, or what? Does it support only Philips devices?

See above: it's the de facto standard of remote controllers, with a really large user community, not just from the Windows Mobile world.

Originally Posted by bbarker

All I need is an app that makes it simple and easy to get started and use, without having to learn a lot about codes or standards or whatever. I don't care about customizing the UI if its only purpose is aesthetics. Is there a functional reason customization is an advantage?

If you want easiness and (compared to Pronto) middle-sized online databases, Nevo is a very good choice. If you want hand-drawn skins with an enormously sized online database, Pronto (and Pronto-compliant Pocket PC remote apps – again, Nevo isn't one of them) is the way to go.

Originally Posted by bbarker

Based on what I have said, is there an app that's suited to my needs?

If you don't have much time to evaluate remote controller apps and fine-tuning your interfaces, stick with Nevo. It's, despite its shortcomings, very good.

Unfortunately, fine-tuning is still needed – none of the current Pocket PC remote controller apps are 100% CCF-compatible. PdaWin TV remote controller 5.5 is able to read about the half of the CCF files. Total Remote may require manual code teaching with existing skins. NetRemote IR is much better in this respect, but you may still run into problems with it (see for example the 'grayscale screen in a color file' problem.)

But, if you have plenty of time at hand, give a try to the, preferably Pronto-compliant alternatives. It's not very easy to choose from them because they all have problems and advantages over the competition. I recommend NetRemote IR, Total Remote or, to a lesser degree, PdaWin TV remote controller 5.5, if you want real CCF support.

Originally Posted by bbarker

I'm glad there are such knowledgable people as you here to help.

Thanks

BTW, I'll really post a generic overview of CCF files and using Pronto(Pro) files on the Pocket PC some day. This stuff has turned out to be much more complicated (because of the many different device types and the many test PDA's I need to run the tests on) than I have previously thought. Please be patient

[bbarker]

Thank you for your very careful and helpful reply. It is sounding, though, like this whole arena is too complex for a very casual user such as myself. I seldom watch TV but was hoping for an application to handle the occasions when I do. It sounds like I'm better off just walking up to the TV set and VCR. (Our only remote that still works is the DVD player's.)

Thanks again for your help.