[Kirkaiya]

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

I wouldn't say you're on safe ground. That may be true if you only delete things from the ROM or add freeware, but if you add tools that were ripped from other devices, cracked software, etc., you're still breaking the law.

Um... I am pretty sure that, nowhere in my post, did I suggest "ripping" things from other devices, or using cracked software.

My point stands - if you are extracting your own ROM, manipulating that ROM (by changing default cache sizes, substituting a new color scheme, leaving out apps you don't want, etc), then you're on safe ground. I at no point even mentioned "ripped" or "cracked" software, anywhere. So I am confused as to what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

Most EULAs prohibit reverse engineering, but, as you say, you aren't required to read it, so it may not apply. Maybe Microsoft needs to have a Terms Of Service screen appear after every hard reset.

Even then, I doubt it would stand up in court. Many court-cases involving EULAs are dropped by plaintiffs like Microsoft before they go to court, specifically because Microsoft and other companies fear a binding ruling on EULAs that strips them of whatever shaky legality they might now possess.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

However, I'm not sure that it is fair use (in the legal sense). You're creating a derivative work (hence a copy), and that may fall out of the fair use guidelines even if you don't distribute it. As far as I know, the only safe ground for software is making a backup/archival copy. (I'm not a lawyer -- I don't even play one on TV -- so I could be wrong.)

This turns out not to be the case - the courts have ruled that you are explicitly allowed to modify and create "derivative works" from IP (intellectual property) that you own, if it's for your own use and you don't distribute it. One case that made this clear was when movie studios were suing to stop a company from removing nude scenes from movies and then selling them as "family" versions. While the company was ultimately prohibited from doing this, the Judge said that if people want to do this on their own, in their own homes, for their own use, then it falls under "fair use".

The only law you'd have to be careful of is the DMCA, since it forbids circumventing DRM, but my HTC's Windows Mobile is not DRMd, so as I said- I'm only reasonably legal grounds.

[Kirkaiya]

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

I wouldn't say you're on safe ground. That may be true if you only delete things from the ROM or add freeware, but if you add tools that were ripped from other devices, cracked software, etc., you're still breaking the law.

Um... I am pretty sure that, nowhere in my post, did I suggest "ripping" things from other devices, or using cracked software.

My point stands - if you are extracting your own ROM, manipulating that ROM (by changing default cache sizes, substituting a new color scheme, leaving out apps you don't want, etc), then you're on safe ground. I at no point even mentioned "ripped" or "cracked" software, anywhere. So I am confused as to what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

Most EULAs prohibit reverse engineering, but, as you say, you aren't required to read it, so it may not apply. Maybe Microsoft needs to have a Terms Of Service screen appear after every hard reset.

Even then, I doubt it would stand up in court. Many court-cases involving EULAs are dropped by plaintiffs like Microsoft before they go to court, specifically because Microsoft and other companies fear a binding ruling on EULAs that strips them of whatever shaky legality they might now possess.

Originally Posted by Pony99CA

However, I'm not sure that it is fair use (in the legal sense). You're creating a derivative work (hence a copy), and that may fall out of the fair use guidelines even if you don't distribute it. As far as I know, the only safe ground for software is making a backup/archival copy. (I'm not a lawyer -- I don't even play one on TV -- so I could be wrong.)

This turns out not to be the case - the courts have ruled that you are explicitly allowed to modify and create "derivative works" from IP (intellectual property) that you own, if it's for your own use and you don't distribute it. One case that made this clear was when movie studios were suing to stop a company from removing nude scenes from movies and then selling them as "family" versions. While the company was ultimately prohibited from doing this, the Judge said that if people want to do this on their own, in their own homes, for their own use, then it falls under "fair use".

The only law you'd have to be careful of is the DMCA, since it forbids circumventing DRM, but my HTC's Windows Mobile is not DRMd, so as I said- I'm only reasonably legal grounds.

[Pony99CA]

Originally Posted by Kirkaiya

Um... I am pretty sure that, nowhere in my post, did I suggest "ripping" things from other devices, or using cracked software.

My point stands - if you are extracting your own ROM, manipulating that ROM (by changing default cache sizes, substituting a new color scheme, leaving out apps you don't want, etc), then you're on safe ground. I at no point even mentioned "ripped" or "cracked" software, anywhere. So I am confused as to what you're talking about.

Let me clarify it, then. You said:

If it's somebody else's cooked ROM, I'd agree (though I too won't deny ever trying one out!). Legally, though, you're on safe grounds if you extract your own ROM, modify it, and then reflash your device.

You didn't exclude using ripped or cracked software, so I was clarifying things.

Steve

[Menneisyys]

I've published a VERY thorough roundup some days ago, comparing all the recently available browsers (and even iPhone's Safari). In the roudup, I've very thoroughly reviewed the "hacked" IEM6 coming in some XDA-Devs cooked ROM's. See http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f323...iew-91980.html