This actually isn't that encouraging. My cynical side says our devices will fall into 3 classes.
1. Those that receive neither update.
2. Those that will receive 6.5 but not 7.0
3. Those that will bypass 6.5 and update to 7.0
I have a strong feeling that that there won't be any upgrades from WM 6.x to 7.x as WM7 shell is supposedly to run CE6 underlying OS and that means rewriting hardware drivers which is too much for a free/$20 upgrade.
I don't think WM will go that way unless MS lets it though.
Well, yeah....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKingGrim
They can do WM right if they want to. Obviously it is not a very high priority since it takes years to make it over while Google can write an OS from scratch in less time.
Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?
It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.
In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.
Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts?
Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?
It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.
In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.
Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts?
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanzlr
and they didn't really build it from scratch, they already had the open linux foundation to build upon.
Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?
It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.
In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.
Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts?
Steve
This is a point you raise. Both Apple and Google chose a linux or unix-based kernel to build on top of. I don't know if we can say that both companies invested 5 plus years to bring their products to light. But when they came out they both (argueably) trumped Windows Mobile.
Microsof has shown that it will take another year or two to respond. That doesn't sound very competitive. Meanwhile Apple and Google both can concentrate on adding features not refactoring the foundation.
Perhaps the real question is, can the WM platform (which may be CE) keep up with the competition (e.g. linux)? Hypothetically, what if Microsoft ditched their kernal and adopted a Linux one. Would that give them the competitive edge they need?
I know they wouldn't but its interesting to think about.
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What people are complaining about and want "to catch up" is pretty much all UI stuff and improvements in core applications that come with the OS(Edit:'Usability' as a description fits here nicely). So, really, in WM to add new gesture based features and < insert other fun User interface control types and transitions and ... > and then do what is needed and re-write ALL of the current screens along with combining what is separate between Pro and Standard and making it so all screens and controls work multiple ways(touch or no touch), look cooler, make more sense and are way simplified, and on all screen sizes and orientations and then write all core applications(ex. IE, unified better home screen, zune/wmp improvements, skymarket, etc...) fixing what is needed and using this new interface .... well is a project. Then make sure you aren't completely wrecking your huge 3rd Party Application base, and even that some of these new controls integrate automatically in place of the older versions(list controls etc) into these 3rd party apps and expose all of the new interfaces in the sdk and for further development. And hopefully rewrite a little bit behind the scenes to further separate it out so MS can use an OTA update feature to release pieces of OS updates. And oh by the way, not that it needs it now, but since we are doing all this lets switch to our newer CE kernel as it will be beneficial in several ways too...
Those other OSs took longer, and weren't being worked on in parallel to an existing established working OS, and well took a ton of shortcuts to get them out the door. Ummm.. Android pulled half the built-in applications back out and currently is only one device format, and don't even get me started on what iPhone was missing(and even still is 1.5 years later) but is so easily forgiven because they may eventually release an OTA update to fix it all(though maybe not the things that really matter in the life cycle of your current phone).
So Im sure they could probably use more, but I bet MS has plenty of resources on WM7 and ...
heres hoping 6.5 gives us a little taste of part of that...
.......................
And did you really just cite that commercial by Apple, the company that blows more advertising money than anyone, and Im sorry its OS's could use some $$ held back for fixing too..I see a few annoyances in Vista, but developing on both every day Vista is a better OS than MacOS.... .So I'm hoping there was sarcasm in that...
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I have a strong feeling that that there won't be any upgrades from WM 6.x to 7.x as WM7 shell is supposedly to run CE6 underlying OS and that means rewriting hardware drivers which is too much for a free/$20 upgrade.
I have a feeling there will not be any official upgrades released either. From the sounds of it it looks like Microsoft, at least behind closed doors, is taking the iPhone and Android threat seriously... at least seriously enough to hire teams to work on 'experiences'. Hopefully when WM7 is released, it will be on par with the competition in the usability department and might not give the user the full 'experience' on older hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdsoft
Android trumps WM??
Only in usability. I still love my Blackjack but it is so refreshing to be able to use a new device that happens to be a touch screen device and is easily accessible with one hand. As I mentioned above, I don't see this lasting very long as I have faith that the next version(s) of Windows Mobile will blow the previous efforts out of the water where usability is concerned.
Minus Windows Mobile's bland user interface, the rest of the operating system is fantastic.
Every news about WM in last few months is more depressing...
Microsoft released WM6 in 2007 (there was allready talk about new "revolutionary" version of WM in 2006 with new interface, but WM6 obviously wasn't that)
A year later they released WM6.1, still nothing new, even though Apple in the meantime changed the landscape with new interface and new OS.
Now we hear that next year there will be WM6.5, which implies again that it's going to be the same old OS and interface, with possibly a new PIE?
So Microsoft will need roughly 4 years to buld new interface.
I find this sorry, yes Apple and Google used Linux kernel for the OS, but Micosoft also uses allready developed kernel (Windows CE) that is developed by different team than WM, so it's not like they have more to do than competition, probably less...
On the other hand it's logical, they probably had to change everything after iPhone was released and start from scrach.
The only positive thing I see here is that my existing hardware (Diamond, Advantage maybe even Himalaya) will get an upgrade to 6.5 (via XDA-Developers) in 2009 that will work, something I'm not to sure will be the case with WM7.
Microsoft released WM6 in 2007 (there was allready talk about new "revolutionary" version of WM in 2006 with new interface, but WM6 obviously wasn't that)
A year later they released WM6.1, still nothing new, even though Apple in the meantime changed the landscape with new interface and new OS.
Now we hear that next year there will be WM6.5, which implies again that it's going to be the same old OS and interface, with possibly a new PIE?
So Microsoft will need roughly 4 years to buld new interface.
Four years? Even if WM 6.5 has no UI improvements (which the Motorola CEO implied it would) and WM 7 comes out in 2010, that's only about three years after the iPhone was released in 2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alese
I find this sorry, yes Apple and Google used Linux kernel for the OS, but Micosoft also uses allready developed kernel (Windows CE) that is developed by different team than WM, so it's not like they have more to do than competition, probably less...
I think you missed the point of the Linux argument. It was directed at one poster who claimed that Google wrote Android from scratch faster than Microsoft could do an OS update. I pointed out that Android started about 5 years ago, and another poster pointed out that even that wasn't really from scratch because they could start from Linux. We were just correcting misinformation, not making any claims about who had more work to do.
But your comment about Windows CE reinforces the point. Microsoft developed Windows CE themselves; they didn't have the luxury (as far as I know) of using an existing mobile kernel.
Four years? Even if WM 6.5 has no UI improvements (which the Motorola CEO implied it would) and WM 7 comes out in 2010, that's only about three years after the iPhone was released in 2007.
Actually there was some talk about the new "revolutionary" version of WM from Mobius (I think in fall 2006 - I guess Jason or someone else could be more specific about the time). Anyhow Microsoft supposedly showed some UI stuff that was supposed to go into the WM after the version 6. So in 2006 they were already working on at least some aspects of WM7...
As for UI improvements - we can only wait and see. I secretly hope 6.5 will have some real UI improvements, but I'm not holding my breath. What it will probably have will be just some minor "usability" things and a new version of PIE - the one demonstrated this spring that should bring "full internet experience".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony99CA
I think you missed the point of the Linux argument. It was directed at one poster who claimed that Google wrote Android from scratch faster than Microsoft could do an OS update. I pointed out that Android started about 5 years ago, and another poster pointed out that even that wasn't really from scratch because they could start from Linux. We were just correcting misinformation, not making any claims about who had more work to do.
But your comment about Windows CE reinforces the point. Microsoft developed Windows CE themselves; they didn't have the luxury (as far as I know) of using an existing mobile kernel.
Steve
I understand the point, and I wasn't actually trying to comment on Linux argument, I was just trying to make some parallels to the situations between WM team, Google Android and Apple. Just like Google and Apple didn't start from scratch, the same goes for Microsoft - the WM team already have built OS and for the most part what they have to do is build the UI and some applications (not all).
And I think they are actually in better position than the other two, not only they have the OS development in the house so they can work more closely with CE team, they have history going back to 2000, there is large user base, development tools and development community everything that the other two didn't have, or even still don't have.
And in spite the seemingly better starting position, it looks like the development of WM is moving very slow compared to others - even Blackberry with much less resources, looks like it managed to come up with touch UI that looks good, faster than Microsoft managed to update their UI.
Anyhow sorry for the long post/rant - don't get me wrong I want WM to be successful, I like the platform, I'm a fan and user from 2000, but it's so frustrating when you see how others are making big steps forward and all we get is threaded messaging and 3rd party shells like Touch Flo 3D...
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