[jdmountford]

I am a huge Win Mo and MS guy. I am a very loyal Microsoft customer. Uncle Walt.... what can I say? It is not so much that he is biased for something as that he is biased so much against MS.

As for the market share mind share discussions I think the major reason for the lack of Win Mo mind share is due in large part to North American cell carriers. Carriers throw their weight at exclusives like the G1, iPhone and Palm Pre. While I know for a fact that Windows Mobile phones as well as RIM Blackberry are the two work horses of the smartphone market. RIM has lost a lot of mind share over the years as well as Win Mo.

Short story is I blame the carriers and their nitpicking as well as their bias.

[jdmountford]

I am a huge Win Mo and MS guy. I am a very loyal Microsoft customer. Uncle Walt.... what can I say? It is not so much that he is biased for something as that he is biased so much against MS.

As for the market share mind share discussions I think the major reason for the lack of Win Mo mind share is due in large part to North American cell carriers. Carriers throw their weight at exclusives like the G1, iPhone and Palm Pre. While I know for a fact that Windows Mobile phones as well as RIM Blackberry are the two work horses of the smartphone market. RIM has lost a lot of mind share over the years as well as Win Mo.

Short story is I blame the carriers and their nitpicking as well as their bias.

[Twain]

Originally Posted by jdmountford

As for the market share mind share discussions I think the major reason for the lack of Win Mo mind share is due in large part to North American cell carriers. Carriers throw their weight at exclusives like the G1, iPhone and Palm Pre.

I can certainly attest to the (negative) influence of carriers. With Verizon pimping the Blackberry Storm in the last 6 months, almost to the exclusion of anything else, their Windows Mobile phone selection has atrophied. That, coupled with the fact that you can't even walk into a Verizon store (at least in the LA area) and look at/handle/"touch" a Touch Pro becuase it is an "Internet only sale" further exacerbates the problem.

It's an uphill climb if you have to make consumers (who want stuff NOW) wait and order something over the Internet, rather than being able to walk into a store and buy something. Knowing Verizon, of course they realize that consumers will simply buy the non-Windows Mobile device (ie. the BlackBerry Storm) they can walk out of the store with, rather than wait for something to come in the mail several days later.

[kzemach]

Whether or not Mossberg is biased, I still think he's somewhat correct.

I have an unlocked HTC TyTN with the upgraded OS. I've had it for a long time (like, right when it came out). I got it because my Treo 600 (that's 600, not even 650) died. And if my Treo were to be suddenly resurrected, I'd switch back.

You know, I'd ALMOST be OK with my TyTN if it actually worked. I don't have that much loaded on it, yet it locks up several times a week. I could go on for a long list of why it's just more difficult to use than other platforms (which it is), but I think I can sum it up with one comment: Why does ActiveSync STILL SUCK? Sure, it's better, but damnit, I don't want to be a SysAdmin to be able to plug my freakin' phone in.

Microsoft just doesn't pay attention to the usability, stability, repeatability that I expect from my PHONE. Computer having tweaky problems? OK. But I don't want my phone to lock up. I want my contacts to sync. I want to be able to search my information. And it's 2009; I don't think that's so much to ask. When PocketPC first came out and had problems, everyone who used it gave it slack. For years. It's long past the time when this platform should have been rock solid. Thus, I don't trust it ever will be.

[emuelle1]

It's always seemed to me that tech journalists tend to be at least as biased as political journalists.

I was a long time Windows Mobile user, but the Samsung Epix was my last straw. I happily switched to the iPhone.

I'm happy to hear that the Zune has mindshare. I briefly considered getting one, until the iPod Touch came out and I went with that. I know people with Zunes seem to be happy with them. I'm happy with my iPhone.

[choyboy]

1) If Walt had one wish, it would probably be that Microsoft as a company be destroyed by nuclear attack. Expecting him to be fair toward Microsoft is like asking a cat to not eat a plate of tuna. It's just not going to happen.

Not sure what your point is, Jason. I could replace the words "Walt" and "Microsoft" with "Jason Dunn" and "Apple"/"Palm"/"RIM" and that would also ring true. So the pot is calling the kettle black, eh?

"2) People understand single-device models. It's easy to talk about the iPhone vs. Pre vs. vs. G1 vs. Blackberry (people use it as a catch-all term for all Blackberry phones). It's much harder to talk about a single phone vs. an ecosystem of phones. Once there are more Android phones on the market Google will have a similar problem. It's cumbersome to try and weave the platform narrative together. With HTC releasing their new phones in Europe/Asia first, most North American press don't register the fact that there are legitimate competitors out there running Windows Mobile. There's also the reality that even though there have been some great-selling Windows Mobile phones (the million+ club) there isn't really a "hero" phone that stands out from the rest and is a poster-child for Windows Mobile. That needs to change. "

I agree, there is no real stand-out phone for microsoft, and that does need to change for windows mobile to be taken seriously from a consumer point of view. Lord knows HTC have tried (and failed) with the Diamond. It really does not help that so many windows mobile devices are rebranded under different carriers, effectively undermining their own collective marketing might as well as relegating any meaningful marketshare numbers useless (because they are classed as different phones). I for one am sick of every other week hearing about a "new windows mobile phone" only to find some dumb carrier like verizon has renamed the touch and called it the "propel" or something stupid.
Which leads on to my next point...

"4) Despite less-than-stellar sales, notice how the Zune has tremendous mindshare against the iPod? Other competitors rarely get mentioned, even though I'm sure Sandisk sells more MP3 players than Microsoft does. Windows Mobile has the same problem it's always had: selling an operating system or a platform is hard; selling a shiny piece of hardware is easy in comparison. It's easy to hold up a device and say "Here's our new thing". Holding up a platform and saying "Here are our 20 new things" - that's hard."

really??? "tremendous mindshare" - hardly. Even the guy who tattooed the zune on his shoulder wants it taken off. The zune is the laughingstock of the world's media. They feature in sitcoms prominently, only to be endlessly parodied and mocked (anybody remember the chuck episode about this?) That's not the kind of mindshare I want for my product, it's about as wanted as apple is often mocked for the one button mouse.

You are right, it is hard to sell a platform if you don't control it and it will always be the benefit and the achilles heel of any platform over a product. Diversity kills any unity (and press coverage) that one product can give, because when you get an iPhone you get that product, flaws and benefits. When you get a windows mobile phone, you could have either a lemon or the best phone ever.

"3) I thought it was hilarious that an app nuked Walt's Pre, took out all his data, and he just sort of shrugged it off as being not a big deal. This is the phone that's launching in a few days? And the applications aren't sandboxed in a way that prevents massive data loss? Imagine if a Windows Mobile phone did that to him - he'd have a fit."

And so he *should* have a fit if it was a windows mobile phone. there have been SIX versions of windows mobile , so if Microsoft haven't had this problem licked they don't deserve to have any users. Palm Pre is running webOS 1.0 - in fact probably 1.0RC in the case of Walt's phone - so he is right to reserve judgement on the stability of a pre-release product. Of course, should the reports come back week one of release that this is happening, Palm should be panned, and probably deserve to fail.

It's fine to write a piece as a proud Windows Mobile supporter, but please PocketPC thoughts should be the *last* site who have the right to accuse others of bias. You have some good points, but panning Walt achieves nothing but cement the image of this site as apologists for windows mobile hardware. THe irony here is that Mossberg has on quite a few previous articles *recommended* windows mobile phones in corporate environments - and rightly so given the support they receive in the form of the huge numbers of MCSE drones out there.

[whydidnt]

Originally Posted by Damion Chaplin

OK, seriously, you're saying that a MS-based device is too expensive and that's why people don't want it? And how much will it run you to buy an iPhone? So please enlighten us as to how an MS-based device is not economical...

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

I'm not sure I understand your math. The iPhone data plan is $30/month, same as the Fuze is. If I look at the ATT Family plans for the iPhone, you can get 3 lines, plus unlimited internet on the iPhone for $100.00/month. Same cost as you're paying now. Of course the Fuze is $100.00 more upfront than the 8 GB iPhone, despite having 7.5 gigs less storage space, and a screen that is more than a 1/2" smaller.

Then don't even get me started on cost of ownership. For $9.95 or less, you can buy almost any iPhone application you want, comparable iPhone apps are typically 50% the cost of Windows Mobile apps AND you don't have to mess with entering a 27 digit activation code, or worry that the app won't work when you upgrade to a new device, because you already activated it.

Apple is winning consumer mind-share because they have made it easy AND cost effective for consumers to chose their device. I don't know how or why developers have decided to price their apps they way they have on Apple, but it's been a huge boon for Apple, they seem to have figured out a way to lock-in consumers to their phone much the same way they did with the iPod by making it easy to use.

[Zman]

Originally Posted by kzemach

You know, I'd ALMOST be OK with my TyTN if it actually worked. I don't have that much loaded on it, yet it locks up several times a week. I could go on for a long list of why it's just more difficult to use than other platforms (which it is), but I think I can sum it up with one comment: Why does ActiveSync STILL SUCK? Sure, it's better, but damnit, I don't want to be a SysAdmin to be able to plug my freakin' phone in.

I've had a TyTN II for almost 2 years now, in all that time of using it several times a day, GPS, WiFi, MP3 player, internet its locked up less than 10 times, and that was usually the fault of running too many things at once (all of the previously mentioned at once).

It funny when I see someone with a new iPhone and they think they have this amazing new thing that never existed before, then I whip out my 2 year old TynII or hell even my 5 year old PPC which has most of the what the iPhone has including a ton more apps & games and for a cheaper price and suddenly they aren't so enthusiastic anymore.

The only thing the iPhone has on WM is a slight edge in usability for newcomers, but you are comparing a 10 year old mobile OS to a 1 year old one.

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by RogueSpear

The cost of the phone is completely irrelevent. It's the cost of licensing Windows, Exchange, Office, etc.

I don't deal with licensing matters much, but I had an experience the other day that's relevant to this discussion: a client that I do a bit of consulting work for had a Blackberry. He uses a hosted Exchange account, and wanted to get it to sync. To sync a Blackberry with this hosted Exchange account would cost him another $9.95/month above and beyond the $8.95/month he's already paying for the hosted Exchange account. A Windows Mobile device would sync for free. So when it comes down to cost advantages, Windows Mobile has it over RIM.

Originally Posted by RogueSpear

I had been a PPC/WM user for so many years and after constantly seeing promises dashed, there's a little bit of pent up frustration.

I can tell. It's OK, I have a lot of frustration with Windows Mobile as well...

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by kzemach

You know, I'd ALMOST be OK with my TyTN if it actually worked. I don't have that much loaded on it, yet it locks up several times a week. I could go on for a long list of why it's just more difficult to use than other platforms (which it is), but I think I can sum it up with one comment: Why does ActiveSync STILL SUCK? Sure, it's better, but damnit, I don't want to be a SysAdmin to be able to plug my freakin' phone in.

It's kind of strange - I mostly use Windows Mobile Standard devices now, and I sync with an Exchange server, and I have essentially zero problems. I can't recall the last time I had my phone lock up - honestly, it's been 2+ years since I've had to pull the battery from any Windows Mobile device. The only problem I can even think of recently is that my Blackjack II for some reason stop transmitting call audio - as in, I couldn't hear the person who called me, but they could hear me. A hard reset would always fix the problem, and I had basically nothing installed except for some screen capture software and SOTI Pocket Controller Pro, so I think it was a software issue.

It's a sad reality that Windows Mobile Professional isn't as stable as Windows Mobile Standard. Standard is less "flashy", but it really gets the job done better.

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by choyboy

Not sure what your point is, Jason. I could replace the words "Walt" and "Microsoft" with "Jason Dunn" and "Apple"/"Palm"/"RIM" and that would also ring true. So the pot is calling the kettle black, eh?

I'd say the primary difference is that I'm clearly a Windows Mobile enthusiast - my site name says so. Walt is a journalist, and journalists are supposed to be unbiased - and Walt covers all technology, not just Apple products. So yes, I do have higher expecations for him to be unbiased - it's part of his job.

Originally Posted by choyboy

really??? "tremendous mindshare" - hardly. Even the guy who tattooed the zune on his shoulder wants it taken off. The zune is the laughingstock of the world's media.

Take a look at the online media coverage for every version of the Zune, including the Zune HD, and then compare that with the coverage of a new Windows Mobile phone, or even Windows Mobile itself as an operating system. You'll see a significant different - that's mindshare. Sure, the Zune gets made fun of on some TV shows, but that's still building mindshare. You may not think it's helpful, but I think the opposite - it gets the name of the brand out there, and when people look at the Zune in a store, they think "Oh, I've heard of that, I'll check it out.".

Originally Posted by choyboy

It's fine to write a piece as a proud Windows Mobile supporter, but please PocketPC thoughts should be the *last* site who have the right to accuse others of bias. You have some good points, but panning Walt achieves nothing but cement the image of this site as apologists for windows mobile hardware.

You'll notice the headline was about mindshare, not "Mossberg is Biased". You're focusing far too much on only a small part of what I said - and in fact, my only point regarding Mossberg and Windows Mobile is that he didn't mention it as being a compeditor in the marketplace, when it clearly is. If that doesn't show his personal bias, I don't know what does. I certainly have my own bias, but if I were writing an article about smartphones on the market today and didn't even MENTION the iPhone, that would be sheer lunacy, right? Yet that's exactly what Mossberg did - so why is it wrong for me to point that out?