[kdarling]

I've worked with Windows CE and Mobile for about a decade, I guess.

I think Microsoft always figured it was up to third parties to create a better UI. They'd been slammed for forcing things down throats, and tended to go too far the other way.

On Windows CE, this was often the case. It was used in many applications because it was a very stable programming base with fairly rich APIs, that companies would cover up with their own UI... from kiosks, to home control, to field tech usages. Heck, even Apple Stores use WinCE handhelds.

This hands-off philosophy unfortunately carried over to Windows Mobile, where it was less appropriate. Microsoft rarely updated any of their core apps, again I think simply because they thought for sure that third parties would come up with their own, if the Microsoft ones were too terrible to use.

The trouble was, the MS apps weren't horrible. They just weren't great or fun to use. But they got the job done, and no phone maker wanted to pour extra money into doing their own thing.... until HTC came along and Samsung caught the bug as well. LG might even be getting into it bigtime with their new 3D UIs.

[kdarling]

I've worked with Windows CE and Mobile for about a decade, I guess.

I think Microsoft always figured it was up to third parties to create a better UI. They'd been slammed for forcing things down throats, and tended to go too far the other way.

On Windows CE, this was often the case. It was used in many applications because it was a very stable programming base with fairly rich APIs, that companies would cover up with their own UI... from kiosks, to home control, to field tech usages. Heck, even Apple Stores use WinCE handhelds.

This hands-off philosophy unfortunately carried over to Windows Mobile, where it was less appropriate. Microsoft rarely updated any of their core apps, again I think simply because they thought for sure that third parties would come up with their own, if the Microsoft ones were too terrible to use.

The trouble was, the MS apps weren't horrible. They just weren't great or fun to use. But they got the job done, and no phone maker wanted to pour extra money into doing their own thing.... until HTC came along and Samsung caught the bug as well. LG might even be getting into it bigtime with their new 3D UIs.

[Janak Parekh]

Originally Posted by kdarling

This hands-off philosophy unfortunately carried over to Windows Mobile, where it was less appropriate. Microsoft rarely updated any of their core apps, again I think simply because they thought for sure that third parties would come up with their own, if the Microsoft ones were too terrible to use.

That's an interesting perspective, but I think it ignores a lot of CE, Pocket PC and Windows Mobile history.

First off, HPC, PSPC and its ilk were specifically CE devices with the Microsoft UI. If anything, Microsoft put extra effort to make it look like Windows on the desktop, with the bottom Start Menu and the like. I disagree that Microsoft skimped on the UI work here, or on Pocket PC, where the redesign was considered a major simplification. Additionally, Microsoft put a ton of effort into the apps on Pocket PC 2000, including Microsoft Reader, which was a big investment into ebooks before anyone else, WMP, etc.

The problem is that Microsoft stopped focusing on these consumer apps sometime in the middle of the decade, and started focusing on the enterprise. This worked well for them for a while, but the recent trends towards effective combinations of consumer and enterprise-grade solutions caught them by surprise.

--janak

[sub_tex]

Originally Posted by Twain

sub_text:

I don't know if you are a developer or not, but if you aren't and are mainly a user of the phones, then it's not clear to me why you believe Microsoft needs to ditch the current OS? Isn't what you care about really just the "user experience," ie, how you interact with the device?

I am a developer yes. And when stuff runs slow or poorly, I tend to fault the structure. I don't think any of the APIs need to be changed. The dev-facing API doesn't need to change at all, just the plumbing behind all that.

I think MS needs to really think about what a mobile OS in 2009+ needs, build around that, and flush out everything else. I find it hard to believe that a mobile OS build in the PPC days and patched to what it is now is an efficient, tight machine.

[timlayton]

I am not sure the argument about windows mobile becoming plumbing is really an issue to anyone including microsoft. I would love to have my plumbing installed on millions and millions of devices and smartphones all over the globe. The licensing fee is a beautiful business model. Not clear on what the issue would be even if it were true and I don't think it is very likely. People love to talk about things and especially when things don't happen on their own timelines. I think MS had made very smart moves and in this turbulent market, I think we will see their wisdom in the long run.

[timlayton]

I am not sure the argument about windows mobile becoming plumbing is really an issue to anyone including microsoft. I would love to have my plumbing installed on millions and millions of devices and smartphones all over the globe. The licensing fee is a beautiful business model. Not clear on what the issue would be even if it were true and I don't think it is very likely. People love to talk about things and especially when things don't happen on their own timelines. I think MS had made very smart moves and in this turbulent market, I think we will see their wisdom in the long run.