so... when you guys say... 15 megs free... u mean to say after the startup of your device you have 15megs free? isnt wm5 use rom to store all programs? i am using wm2003 and i have 64 megs of ram of which i have 62 megs useable.
Memory allocation is completely different than WM2003, so you can't easily compare. On the 700w, there is about 60MB of ROM free and 15MB of RAM free on a hard-reset. Programs and data are installed into ROM (or a storage card), but when they are running they do use up some RAM.
In general, I've been satisfied with the 700w's allocation. The amount of ROM on the 700w is more than devices like the Jasjar, and I find that useful as I install all my apps into ROM now instead of relying on a storage card. The RAM is sufficient for my daily tasks. Apart from the memory leak, which I described earlier but haven't had time to track down, the only other major problem is that PIE is a hog, and can use up memory for complex or very large webpages. I've now switched to using Opera for those webpages; it's a bigger application, but has better memory management.
But as Chairman Clench said, it ultimately depends on what you use the device for. I use it primarily for text messaging/email, as a phone, as an ebook reader, and for a few games and the occasional websurfing. The 700w is clearly not a power PDA device, what with its small screen, but for my use cases it's very good. As I mentioned in my review, its one-handedness beats nearly every other Pocket PC phone on the market, and that's an important consideration for me as I tend to walk around in NYC and need to be able to use a phone with one hand.
I'm using WM Phone editions for more than 2 years and have used PocketPCs before. While I liked all the devices, and I don't want to switch to something else, I don't really try to "sell" this devices to other "ordinary" users - it's just too frustrating to use/operate them.
Well, that's why Microsoft has the Smartphone platform. I do strongly believe that someone can operate the Smartphone out-of-the-box with little additional training. Most Pocket PCs (and Palm Treos, for that matter) require a little more intuition and/or knowledge. Of course, as you mention, that is predicated on the stability of the platform.
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My iPaq 3870 - had BT implementation that forced me to soft reset the device probably daily, because of the memory leak problems, something that never happened on my phones with BT.
Now, quoting the 3870 isn't a good example. It was the first Pocket PC on the market with Bluetooth, and had a famously bad Bluetooth implementation, that we repeatedly ranted about right here on PPCT.
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Or what about the fact that NO production WM Phone Edition (and I guess WM Smartphone also) that uses (now pretty much standard) MS BT Stack have CallerID feature, something every other BT Phone sold in last few years suports out of the box, and we are talking about cheap dumb phones here.
This may be a geographical thing -- caller-ID-enabled Bluetooth headsets are extraordinarily rare here. As car integration increases, that may increase its availability, but yes, Microsoft still needs to do quite some work on their BT stack (can anyone say A2DP?).
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And of course, there is also special ritual, that I had (and stil have) to do with all my machines since 2002 to make sure reminders and alarms are working reliably, a loong staying feature of all WM devices.
Yeah, this is the one utterly inexcusable stupidity of Pocket PCs. Interestingly, I never, ever had the problem on Smartphones. I just don't get Microsoft on this one. (It is worth mentioning that add-on software can affect alarm stability, but that shouldn't be allowed to happen.)
Thank you for writing an article that summarized my feeling exactly. I have purchased way too many Palm OS and Win Mobile devices to admit the exact number. If I did relate the number, you would place me in a 12 step program for gadget addicts. I used to be a Palm OS champion, but the T5 changed that. I had used Win Mobile devices, but the Palm OS devices were my favorite daily use devices until the T5. The T5 never should have been released - too buggy, too unstable, and many apps would not run. The TX is a nice device, but I had switched to the Win Mobile platform as my daily device after the terrible T5 experience (I do own a TX).
My latest PDA/phone is the Treo 700w. This Treo could have been excellent if someone at Palm had not decided (probably saved a couple $ per device) to choke it with only 32 MB of Ram, of which you are lucky if you have 13 MB after booting. Combine the limited RAM with memory leaks, and you have basically eliminated one of the best features of Win Mobile 5, multitasking. With version 1.02 of the ROM, you could multitask fairly well. Version 1.10 of ROM increased the memory threshold for closing apps from 2 to 5 MB; this basically ended multitasking, particulaly with memory hogs such as IE. My favorite memory upgrade vendor has not been able to get the OS to recognize any increased RAM yet.
I also have a Dell Axim x51v, and it is fantastic. 256 ROM of which about 190 MB is available to user; 64 MB RAM of which 30+ is actually available to the user. That is what the Treo should have been supplied with, particualry at the price point they are charging. Multitasking is a pleasure with the x51v.
The lack of built-in WiFi at this price point is unwarranted as well. At least with the 700w, the drivers for Palm's WiFi card are built-in; my understanding is there are no WiFi drivers for the 700p. Many have speculated that WiFi is not necessary with EvDO. EvDO is great, and I have a strong signal 99% of the time. I live in a big city, not all Treo users do. WiFi is much faster than 1x. Also, because I have so many handheld devices, I use NAS as a central data storage area. I can not access the NAS via EvDO, WiFi or bluetooth is needed. Oh wait a minute, Palm/ Verizon do not support the DUN or LAN bluetooth profiles. So it seems that only WiFi can communicate with the NAS. I won't even get started on the crippliing of the Bluetooth profiles by Palm/Verizon. No excuse!!!
If a vendor releases a clamshell type phone with EvDO like speeds, bluetooth 2.0, and supported DUN and LAN Bluetooth profiles, the Treo is history. I will pay the early termination charge to Verizon. I don't care which carrier offers it (I am carrier agnostic), I would return to the two devices vs. combo device in a minute. That way I could keep the phone in a pant's pocket, and use a VGA device with ample memory, and built-in WiFi (like the x51v) to surf etc. via Bluetooth to the small clamshell phone in the pocket. When I did need to place a voice call, the clamshell design is more comfortable to use than the Treo, or other combo devices.
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Well, that's why Microsoft has the Smartphone platform. I do strongly believe that someone can operate the Smartphone out-of-the-box with little additional training. Most Pocket PCs (and Palm Treos, for that matter) require a little more intuition and/or knowledge. Of course, as you mention, that is predicated on the stability of the platform.
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You are right, however at least here, Smartphones are not common, and there is very little choice of different models. Nokia rules here with many different models and I'm sorry to say more features...
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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh
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Now, quoting the 3870 isn't a good example. It was the first Pocket PC on the market with Bluetooth, and had a famously bad Bluetooth implementation, that we repeatedly ranted about right here on PPCT.
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Well, I know that 3870 was notorious about that, but that's just the point. They released the device that didn't even had beta version of BT stack, but very early alpha, if I'm a little sarcastic.
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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh
This may be a geographical thing -- caller-ID-enabled Bluetooth headsets are extraordinarily rare here. As car integration increases, that may increase its availability, but yes, Microsoft still needs to do quite some work on their BT stack (can anyone say A2DP?).
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Yes, caller ID BT headsets are very rare, but BT car units are becoming more and more popular... But the point here is just that typical cheap BT enabled phone has this (and A2DP too), but an expensive WM device with much more power, memory, expandability and of course real Operating System does not have it (unless you hack it on), sad...
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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh
Yeah, this is the one utterly inexcusable stupidity of Pocket PCs. Interestingly, I never, ever had the problem on Smartphones. I just don't get Microsoft on this one. (It is worth mentioning that add-on software can affect alarm stability, but that shouldn't be allowed to happen.)
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With couple exceptions on my iPaq, I too did not have this problem. But I have a very strict ritual with all my WM devices that has worked for me until now.
I recently changed jobs and no longer need a sophisticated calendar/contact/reference machine in my pocket. I was still holding on to my Axim X50v because I listen to a lot of music on it, but now my headphone jack won't work because one of the pins apparently pushed in and won't bounce back. So I've decided to upgrade. I will be selling my X50v and replacing it with a small notebook and a mechanical pencil (too hard to find sharpeners on the go), and my phone plays MP3 music.
I'm tired of trying to find "the perfect device". I look back at the amount of time I've spent trying to get my devices to function properly over the years and see that I probably spent more time than the devices actually saved me. Yes, it's fun to play with and be on the cutting edge of technology. Yes, I am able to show off. But I've also become a slave to the device.
Return of the Mobile Madman: It's a Love-Hate Relationship
What a bunch of weenies in here...
Raphael is very right to be upset.
And Jon... stop smoking that ****, Raphael never mentioned anything about PPC being better than cellphones. And for all those others who crap-on about "Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect."... what a load of cr....
The point that Raphael makes is quite simple. It all boils down to one thing.
Instead of letting a bunch of suits decide for us what we (should) need; they better ASK! But I guess in our comms-devices overloaded world a plain simple verbal communication is way too much for those greedy bastards.
They only care about their stock-profits. They don't build these devices to make our lives better. They make them to make their wallets thicker.
I could go on and even go further with the phrase: That's what you get when it's "made in China" but I won't. Instead I'll explain my own dissapointment in this matter.
My first "PDA" was a Psion. The series 3 and especially the series 5 were tremendously good. If Psion just stuck a colour screen on the 5mx and beefed the cpu to cope with the increased bandwith then that would have been the best pocket computer ever. But alas the greedy suits parted with their money and left Psion to die. Then I bought a Jornada 568. Yeps the one with the dustproblem which also plagued many Ipaqs back then. I sended it 3 times to HP to repair. In the end I just sold it with a major loss because I just couldn't take it anymore. Much later I bought a Toshiba E800. The gorgeous blue-silver brick with the awesome screen and lacklustre battery life. After a few days it screen went black and remained black. The shop refunded me since Toshiba went out o/t business and they wouldn't get a new batch. Then, since I needed some navigation in my car, I bought a navigation bundle with an Asus 620BT. It had immediatly a red dot in the middle o/t screen. Needles to say I find it UNACCEPTIBLE that a device which relies on its (already small) screen for both output and input has missing pixels. In fact I even find this unacceptible with monitors. I think if it's such a damn problem to get NO missing pixels then perfect the technology BEFORE screwing the market. And if that means higher prices or prices not falling down as quick... then so be it! I don't mind paying 50 bucks more to have no broken pixels. In this case the sales departement wouldn't exchange it under warranty so I had to pay for a model with full functioning screen! And then you wonder why I hate these things.
Then the asus... O yeah it was fast. It had CF and bluetooth etc... But after awhile I was so fed up with it's OS. Even though I used it ONLY for navigation with Tom Tom software. No syncing, no games, no agenda, no addressbook... just navigation. I got so fed up with the long waiting time before getting a fix, long reboots, stupid screen-calibration, awkward menu system to get the must basic things done (same as in desktop windwos BTW) that I threw on the ground and (literally) put my foot on it. That was the end of the Asus PDA.
What I do now? Well I've gone back in time. I bought a car with a standard factory-navigation unit. It ain't fancy 3d, switchable voices, night vision blablabla. It's a simple turn-by-turn thing and it works! Always! For the other stuff I bought myself a k750i phone. It also plays games (yep the screen is really tiny), it also sinc the contact list and agenda. It's not as fancy as a PPC but thankgod it doesn't use windows and ALWAYS is ready when it has to be. Am I happy? Well I'm a lot less frustrated than I used to be. Because the tech that I use is perhaps simpler in design and features but it works when I need it. Though my dad who also has a K750i has a severe dust-problem with his phone. Which is odd because my mon who uses my ancient T68i with a missing volume knob has no dust problem at all. A typical case of "made in china"-crap which is plagueing many consumer products these days (mediocre assembly, louzy parts quality, high marging crap with the lifespan of a typical house-fly).
This is my story which includes a couple of Pocket PCs and why I left them.
Ive had a number of devices. My first was the Psion 5 so I wouldnt have to buy a laptop (yeah right, I was naive). Then the original bad boy, the iPaq 3600. But I was carry this around and my mobile. To be honest I wanst using it that much except to show off the mulitmedia stuff. Then the iPaq 2210 using Bluetooth to send SMS from iPaq. Stopped doing that, again two devices.
Then I found my holy grail the imate Jam, small, bigish screen, touch screen, video, audio, camera. Great for site surveys. But the camera was crap, not enough memory and the OS is M$ which needs sh** loads of memory. Great device, crap phone.
I realised that I wanted a good phone so I comppromised and bought a couple of Nokia smartphones, great phones. OK smarts. The N70 had 30MB of RAM free. This is like having 256MB on a PPC. But the small screen and low resolution bugged me.
I longingly looked at the imate sp5, good size, good battery life, hi res screen (if a little Nokia like in size) and I almost bought it. But when I couldnt get GPRS to work on it in the shop I thought better of it. I looked at the KJam but just didnt get on with the keyboard. For some reason I began not to like the *Jam size. The JasJar is just crazy big with crap battery life.
Now I have the Nokia E61. Fatter than the *Jams but much slimmer. Great phone, qwerty keyboard, large (for Nokias) QVGA screen (hence the fat), Wlan, 3g, edge, bluetooth, IR. Connects to Exchange,Blackberry and most other business networks (might actually use this one day and has VoIP functionality. Stable Symbian OS, 70MB of memory free (like having 512MB in a PPC).
I think PPC guys want a great PDA first which can also be a phone. The imates etc fill that need. Some people want a great phone which can also sync with outlook. Thats the smartphones. I think the E61 (so far) has the balance right. Great phone, very good PDA functions including office document editing for word, excel and powerpoint. Of course some would argue that the Multimedia on the PPCs are better, but the Nokias more than hold their own. Actually some tests they actually perform better.
Excellent Article
and has VoIP functionality. Stable Symbian OS, 70MB of memory free (like having 512MB in a PPC).
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