[Janak Parekh]

Raphael, sorry to hear about your trouble.

Strangely enough, the amount of RAM isn't an issue for me. 8O However, I think our use cases might be different. While I do multitask (and often), I tend to use it in a very limited context -- between 2 or 3 programs. As the Palm's 15MB tends to allow me to run up to 6 or 7 without losing any, I generally don't have the problem you do. It may also help that I have no need for voice command -- the Today screen smart dial is far more convenient for me. (The fact that I don't frequently talk on the cell phone while driving may affect this too.)

A bigger issue is the fact that I continue to experience memory leaks, ultimately. I'm not sure if that's Palm's, Microsoft's, or a third-party developer's fault. 15MB does make memory leaks pretty frustrating. But for now, I'm sticking with the 700w.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Raphael, sorry to hear about your trouble.

Strangely enough, the amount of RAM isn't an issue for me. 8O However, I think our use cases might be different. While I do multitask (and often), I tend to use it in a very limited context -- between 2 or 3 programs. As the Palm's 15MB tends to allow me to run up to 6 or 7 without losing any, I generally don't have the problem you do. It may also help that I have no need for voice command -- the Today screen smart dial is far more convenient for me. (The fact that I don't frequently talk on the cell phone while driving may affect this too.)

A bigger issue is the fact that I continue to experience memory leaks, ultimately. I'm not sure if that's Palm's, Microsoft's, or a third-party developer's fault. 15MB does make memory leaks pretty frustrating. But for now, I'm sticking with the 700w.

--janak

[isajoo]

so... when you guys say... 15 megs free... u mean to say after the startup of your device you have 15megs free? isnt wm5 use rom to store all programs? i am using wm2003 and i have 64 megs of ram of which i have 62 megs useable. but my startup programs use up around 12-14 megs and the storage memory uses around 8-10 megs.... so i am left with only 40 megs free which is just perfect to have a couple of programs running in the background plus surfing the web. so 15 megs should actually be illegal to have on any device. my device would not even finish starting up. i saw a new hp 1900 pda with 32megs ram also running wm5. is this really right? all i can see people using these devices for is either a dayplanner/organizer or a paper weight.

[cuteseal]

I totally agree with you, and "paying beta tester" is spot on.

I converged devices have got some way to go yet. I gave up a perfectly good HP 4150 for a HP 6300 series and was utterly disappointed. Slow, buggy bluetooth headset implementation, slow, bulky, did i mention slow? I think I was truly happy with a 4150 - they had almost everything right (although it's probably dated these days).

I couldn't put up with it any longer, ebayed the 6300 and went back to a Tungsten T and a Nokia 6230. Simple, sweet, and both do their respective jobs well.

[alese]

Originally Posted by importluva

I'm not quite sure why everyone says we're beta testers. I can see that the majority of those active on forums will hack their devices and such, but I don't see the general populace really having a need to.

Its all about profit and revenue growth for companies - if you can keep reusing your old accessories, why upgrade? And I'm sure that companies that manufacture memory cards also have some influence on companies liek HTC to "upgrade" flash memory slots. These things are still in their infancy, but once we see wider adaptation, I think we'll see more standardization within each manufacturer's parts. remember too that there may be some limitations that we don't know about that causes these certain changes.

If we would hack our devices, just to get some, hidden or extra functionality of no real use to general public out of them, that would not really be and issue, but.

I'm using WM Phone editions for more than 2 years and have used PocketPCs before. While I liked all the devices, and I don't want to switch to something else, I don't really try to "sell" this devices to other "ordinary" users - it's just too frustrating to use/operate them.
My iPaq 3870 - had BT implementation that forced me to soft reset the device probably daily, because of the memory leak problems, something that never happened on my phones with BT.
The machine had spontaneus hard resets that were not due to any special SW installed, it was a ROM "feature", and the list goes on...
I had to be very carefull when looking for BT headset for my HTC Himalaya, because BT stack was so poor it only worked with some headsets. Also I had to upgrade the original ROM (something not advisable for "normal" user), to get reliable operation out of the device.
My current HTC Universal, needed ROM upgrade to get visibly better speed and reliability, and A2DP BT profile didn't hurt either...
Similar situation is also with my HTC Wizard, drastic improvement after upgrade of original ROM, including new features like, Push Mail.
Or what about the fact that NO production WM Phone Edition (and I guess WM Smartphone also) that uses (now pretty much standard) MS BT Stack have CallerID feature, something every other BT Phone sold in last few years suports out of the box, and we are talking about cheap dumb phones here.
And of course, there is also special ritual, that I had (and stil have) to do with all my machines since 2002 to make sure reminders and alarms are working reliably, a loong staying feature of all WM devices.
If all this (and more) is not beta testing...

[Phillip Dyson]

Its possible that we're dealing with a lazy QA process or lack or pride in what the vendors put out.

But tend to think that is more about the development teams receiving a lot of pressure in reducing time to market. Anyone who's in software development knows what I'm talking about.

How many times have we heard "just roll it out, we'll patch it later". Its quite different being part of an IT department for an actual business versus just being a software house.

The former is just the opposite, we have users that can reject the product outright. And since they fund the product directly we have no choice but to pursue quality in the first shot..

[jarekt]

Its sad but theres only one conclusion. U cant buy totaly fresh device. I`m using HTC Magician and there`s no problem with it becouse it`s not new on the market. I`d love to change it for Wizard or Universal but I read all complains and I`m still waiting with decision. It`s funny but lack of cash is the only reason that i`m not in love/hate relation with my PPC device

BTW. I have to have more tham 32 MB free to feel comfortable with my device. With less than 25 MB memory free i cant use GPS navigation software with mp3 player simultanusely.

[joker]

i like your writing style very much, Raphael.

amen to the last paragraphs!

every day when i feel the same like you do in this article i only wonder who laughs at who. i know i am right with the thoughts how a device has to be and at the same time i also know the manufacturers are doing wrong.

but wondering i do at this point: when no change comes and the deficiencies stay, who is really laughing at whom? do the manufacturers have relations to each other which we will never see? is that the reason why they include a microsd card slot although everyone knows they have to include an sdio card slot?
our words get spread, nobody can claim the manufacturers don't hear us, and still they do what they want.

i think there is nothing else to do than wondering.

[Chairman Clench]

Originally Posted by Janak Parekh

Raphael, sorry to hear about your trouble.

Strangely enough, the amount of RAM isn't an issue for me. 8O However, I think our use cases might be different. While I do multitask (and often), I tend to use it in a very limited context -- between 2 or 3 programs. As the Palm's 15MB tends to allow me to run up to 6 or 7 without losing any, I generally don't have the problem you do. It may also help that I have no need for voice command -- the Today screen smart dial is far more convenient for me. (The fact that I don't frequently talk on the cell phone while driving may affect this too.)

A bigger issue is the fact that I continue to experience memory leaks, ultimately. I'm not sure if that's Palm's, Microsoft's, or a third-party developer's fault. 15MB does make memory leaks pretty frustrating. But for now, I'm sticking with the 700w.

--janak

I completely agree, Janak. I have never run into a memory problem with my Treo 700w and I also multitask in a limited fashion. The Treo happens to be a great device and is also the most stable and reliable PPC I have ever used (and I have used 7 of them).

The Treo is not a power user's device... it is one designed for the masses. Sure, more memory, Wi-Fi, etc, is nice to have... personally, I'll take reliability over extra features any day of the week.

The 6700 looks great on paper, but in reality it is neither a very good phone nor a great PDA. I understand there will be compromises with any converged device however, the 6700 makes too many compromises on the phone side. The Treo has a better balance of compromises.

[ntractv]

Concur with Janak and the Chairman. I love this device and I have not had any memory problems. I can run 5 or so apps at one time with no problem.

[Kt3]

You make some excellent points about the lack of maturity of all Windows Mobile devices in general: lack of sufficient hardware with which to do anything sensational. However there's the simple fact that no one ever pressured us into adopting these devices for daily use in the first place, we are all educated consumers with access to a plethora of information and reviews about the devices which we choose to spend our hard earned money on.

Surely there must be something great about Pocket PCs because some people seem to enjoy owning and using them. I have seen my fair share of nuisances with Windows Mobile in the past and am quite familiar with the limitations of this platform, but it still has some advantages which make it more desirable for me to use on a regular basis as opposed to lugging a laptop around.