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...But things like A2DP - well this usually isn't advertised and its more or less a nice feature to have for some, but most users probably won't take advantage of it anyways. Now of course it would be great for us if every company just adopted the use of miniUSB plugs for everything, but then companies wouldn't have anything left to sell to us, and you know that they make a lot of money on accessories. Also, there are usually reasons for the choices these companies make - the 200mhz processor in the wizard/prophet for example, was used to give better battery life. As I was saying, a device that is perfect to you might be quite the opposite for me - as companies are trying to appeal to a broad market and trying to make a profit, we as consumers/end users have to get used to the lack of some features (or design flaws) until we're in a position to change them.
A2DP is nice feature, that works quite well if you hack your HTC WM5 device, but it's excluded from every ROM except Qtek 9000 ACU2, why?
I would love to have one standard connector, but that's really hard to expect from all the different manufacturers, but why can't manufacturers at least use the same connector between their own devices?
But my main gripe is that, it became normal for first batches of devices to have beta ROMs (Universal, Atom, not to mention Axim x50 and iPaq 47xx WM5 upgrades...) with both performance problems and a lots of bugs, that only get ironed out in future ROM releases - why?
I know we all have different priorities and wishes and that manufacturers have to make money, but I think we deserve fully working devices without beta test period.
I realise the discussion so far has been about Windows Mobile devices in a phone form factor, but I've been using the Acer n311 for a few months now, and I have to say that I'm completely happy with it. There's nothing I bump into on a daily basis and think "Now that's not how that should work!" or "How could they leave that bug in there?"
I guess convergence is where things start to rattle apart. My phone is still a separate device. I do work on my Pocket PC and need a big VGA screen, yet don't want a giant hulk of a machine wrapped around it, so none of the converged devices work for me.
While I haven't been through as many devices as Raphael, I agree with him that users continue to pay for the privilege of acting as beta testers. It is only through the efforts of those who combine their collective knowledge in this and other forums that any PocketPC can be made to realize whatever potential it may have.
I continue to use the PPC-6601 I have had for over a year, simply because I don't see anything that is now available as being an improvement. As Raphael pointed out, the Treo 700w is memory-deficient. Even with the 6601, I sometimes run into memory problems when I am streaming music from internet radio through PocketPlayer to my Plantronics BT stereo headset, while downloading email and browsing the web.
While I must admit I have yet to try a WM5 device, the many threads on various forums suggest that they all have problems--whether it's a DSOD, lack of memory, insufficient CPU power, or crippled BT.
While I can understand the concern about battery power, it seems to me that it would be fairly simple for manufacturers to give users the option to decide what trade-offs should be made between extending battery life and maximizing performance--as I recall, a few were doing exactly that a few years ago.
Mick
Right now I am completely happy with my X50v but Sprint will be getting the 700p soon and I am planning to leave the PPC world behind me after many years of supporting it so. I am ready for a convergence device and one I will use more for work. To be honest I still, after almost a decade do not have confidence in the Windows mobile platforms. Don't get me wrong I have fun with it but now that I need something reliable...well...my views are changing.
Now first I am not a Palm fanboy and I have never owned a Palm so I may be back before I know it. But what would you say about the 700p? No fanboys please! Honestly your opinion on it for business use.
so u decided to go with the 6700? I to have a 6700, my first PPC, and was wondering what program u use for ur email? I am currently using outlook on my ppc and wireless sync...ofcourse this is how verizon set me up but I get a lot of HTML emails and they are not supported by outlook. do u use another program for emails? help...lol I'm a visual person and like my HTML mail...
Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect. This isn't just for our beloved PPCs - it goes for our cars, food, clothes....even our loved ones. The point I'm trying to make is that there are faults in EVERYTHING - manmade or not. What we have to do is to first UNDERSTAND that a device has shortcomings and decide if it breaks the deal. If it doesn't, we have to learn to live with it. Otherwise, you might as well go back to a basic Nokia cell phone and carry around a Dayplanner. It might not be technologically advanced, but it'll do its job. I for one believe that you're just very hard to please and you might never be satisfied.
I think you may have missed the point. We all understand that nothing is ever going to be perfect, but with the number of Windows Mobile devices already manufactured, we have a very wide range of options when you put all of their features together. I seems that none of these manufacturers are taking notes on what the consumer wants. Palm's Treo 700w is a perfect example. While 32MB of RAM may be plenty in a Palm OS device it isn't enough for many on a Windows Mobile device, not to mention that there are very few Palm OS devices still being sold with only 32MB of RAM and no other Windows Mobile device has only 32MB of RAM.
I understand that 32MB may be enough for most people, and I might have bought a treo 700 had it really had 32MB of RAM. But, as Raphael pointed out after booting, there's only about 15MB of RAM available. I personally don't know how you lasted so long with this device Raphael.
I also agree with all of your other points Raphael, although I haven't been in a position to be a paying beta tester with near the number of devices you have, I'm tired of the inconsistancies and unstandardized offerings out there today. So I sit patiently with a FS Loox 720 paired to a BT phone using DUN at around 115K until one of these manafacturers gets it at least close to right.
I've had the opportunity to play around with many of the devices you mentioned Raphael, and I haven't had the urge to buy any of them because of their shortcomings. The only one I really considered was the Treo 700. I didn't think that 240x240 would be good enough for me after using a vga PPC, but with the screen being considerably smaller, it really looked good. I just couldn't beleive it whaen I saw that only 15MB of RAM was available to the user. Definite deal breaker!
Well, lets see. On the CDMA side, we have the 6700 that does a lot of what we want - standard USB, BT, wifi, EVDO, strong intel processor, etc. Seems to me that the only thing that they really don't have is a VGA screen, something that is probably far too cost ineffective right now for the general consumers. You seem to have misunderstood me as well - a lot of these devices are just fine for the majority of people. Sure, everyone could include 128mb of RAM, a miniSD + SD slot, GPS, wifi, BT 2.0, a 3.0" VGA screen, HSDPA/UMTS, quadband GSM/EDGE, etc. etc. but then you've just priced yourself out of the market. The 8125 is the device I'm currently using and I have personally helped half a dozen people (at least) get one too, and the majority of them are quite happy with the device. So saying that manufacturers continue to miss the mark....well maybe to you and Raphael, but to the majority, it seems like they did fairly well.
After trying out many different devices, I've found the 8125 to be a great device. The only thing that I've noticed is that higher bitrate videos struggle, but considering that videos encoded for the 8125 work fine, I really don't see a problem with the 200mhz processor, everyday useage is fine. So for me and many others, current offerings are more than just acceptable - they're better than "good enough"
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...But things like A2DP - well this usually isn't advertised and its more or less a nice feature to have for some, but most users probably won't take advantage of it anyways. Now of course it would be great for us if every company just adopted the use of miniUSB plugs for everything, but then companies wouldn't have anything left to sell to us, and you know that they make a lot of money on accessories. Also, there are usually reasons for the choices these companies make - the 200mhz processor in the wizard/prophet for example, was used to give better battery life. As I was saying, a device that is perfect to you might be quite the opposite for me - as companies are trying to appeal to a broad market and trying to make a profit, we as consumers/end users have to get used to the lack of some features (or design flaws) until we're in a position to change them.
A2DP is nice feature, that works quite well if you hack your HTC WM5 device, but it's excluded from every ROM except Qtek 9000 ACU2, why?
I would love to have one standard connector, but that's really hard to expect from all the different manufacturers, but why can't manufacturers at least use the same connector between their own devices?
But my main gripe is that, it became normal for first batches of devices to have beta ROMs (Universal, Atom, not to mention Axim x50 and iPaq 47xx WM5 upgrades...) with both performance problems and a lots of bugs, that only get ironed out in future ROM releases - why?
I know we all have different priorities and wishes and that manufacturers have to make money, but I think we deserve fully working devices without beta test period.
I'm not quite sure why everyone says we're beta testers. I can see that the majority of those active on forums will hack their devices and such, but I don't see the general populace really having a need to.
Its all about profit and revenue growth for companies - if you can keep reusing your old accessories, why upgrade? And I'm sure that companies that manufacture memory cards also have some influence on companies liek HTC to "upgrade" flash memory slots. These things are still in their infancy, but once we see wider adaptation, I think we'll see more standardization within each manufacturer's parts. remember too that there may be some limitations that we don't know about that causes these certain changes.
With all due respect importluva I couldn't disagree more. I think it speaks volumes that if a person can't find help for a problem within a day or two they will return that item (what was that study that came out recently, something like 30 minutes is the average time people will attemt to troubleshoot), and I think it's mostly forums like these where people eventually turn for help.
And yes if you go to a gearhead site I'm sure you will find a lot of people experimenting with these devices, but most of the time it's people just trying to get them to work the way they're supposed to.
The 6700 Forums over at PDAPhoneHome are a perfect example of this. I've had my 6700 for a month now, and it's ALMOST to the point where I can rely on it. DSOD, time out issues, flight mode issues, connectivity problems, calls not being received timely, bloatware that can't be removed, and the stick of it is that this is a properly functioning unit. THESE ARE BETA RELEASE PROBLEMS! Without my forums, I would've given up and gone back to my Nokia/iPaq combo.
Couple that with a LOT of consumer misrepresentation, and there are going to be a lot of problems. I mean, try and explain to someone why they can use BT Headphones with an iPod (with an adapter), but can't use them with the BT built into their $600 PPC/Phone. Oh sure, WE understand why, but start explaining that to a non-tech-savvy person, and watch their eyes glaze. It's totally not their fault either because THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO KNOW THAT! It should "just work".
I'm all for these companies making profits (I WANT/NEED them to keep making gadgets), but right now it doesn't feel like we're getting better devices out of it, and it REALLY doesn't feel like they are listening to the problems we are having.
The DSOD is particularly galling. I can't believe that the bug ever got out of testing let alone continuing to be around to this day :evil:
Someone at Audiovox/UTMS (supposedly) said that they couldn't reproduce the problem. Unbelievable. There's a whole forum of people at pdaphonehome that can reproduce the problem.
6700?
Linear Mode
