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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surur View Post
If he's so satisfied with an iPhone that he thinks its a mobile computer he clearly does not have high requirements for his "mobile computer".
Everyone has different requirements. If you were strictly referring to his personal mobile device needs as opposed to his "credentials", then I'll take my comment back: you have a valid opinion, but I still don't agree with it. I believe it's useful to have enthusiasts with different requirements, some of which are going to be power users, others who are not.

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I would think access to the file system would be a minimum, not to mention cut and paste.
Again, that's your opinion. For example, it has long been argued that a filesystem should ideally be something that's completely hidden by the UI, especially on mobile devices. Does the iPhone have enough facilities to replace the flexibility of a filesystem UI? Certainly not yet for certain power users, but it's enough for some people. We'll see how that evolves over time.

As for cut-and-paste: yes, I think that's an omission. If it's a deal-breaker for you, that's a legitimate opinion.

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Enthusiasts of what? I would hope writers for PokcetPCThoughts would be enthusiast of Windows Mobile, not the iPhone.
Are you saying that enthusiasm is limited to one platform? Pete freely admitted he owns both a WM and an iPhone. To me, someone who's solely an enthusiast of one platform rapidly devolves into a fanboy. The best way to see a platform improve is to be an enthusiast of the form factor, to use the tools one needs, and appreciate the features each of the platforms have with interest of seeing them improve. Sure, we're here with a WM-centric focus, and would like to see WM improve, but that doesn't mean we won't post on the competition at times.

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Me posting here is much more likely to have an effect on your writing than you posting an article will have an effect on how MS runs windows mobile.
This doesn't jive with your previous assertion. Also, for the MVPs in the group (of which I was one), one of their key roles is to give MS feedback. MVP advice certainly doesn't go ignored, although Microsoft won't always agree with it.

--janak
 
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 08:55 PM
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First of all, I didn't mean to sound so down on Windows Mobile as perhaps it does. And the last thing I meant to do is turn people off. I'm not for or against any particular company. I just know what works best for me. When the iPhone was first announced I thought "Oh yea, wait until Microsoft counters with its next OS." When the iPhone was actually released to the public last June I just knew we'd see something from MS that would put Apple in their place. But after messing with my nephew's iPhone in December I realized that MS didn't really have anything in the future that is similar. I took the plunge and bought the iPhone and I've loved the experience ever since. I'm just disappointed that MS hasn't countered with anything like it. Do some of you agree? I've had an Ipaq 3600, Casseopia EM500, Dell X5, Dell X30, Tmobile SDA, and Tmobile Dash so I'm not exactly inexperienced with Windows Mobile and I'm fully aware of the limitations of the iPhone but I still have a better, more positive experience with it. For me it's the closest device I've ever had to a portable computer. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to take readers anywhere. But I bet there are some that agree that MS needs to make some changes quickly.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by surur View Post
I never get why people with clearly low requirements write for enthusiast web sites.
Pete uses email, web browsing and all of the other PIM features of his device... how is that a low requirement since the iPhone and his previous Windows Mobile devices are just that PIM devices?

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If you are tired of Windows Mobile its time to move on, not to spend your time trying to take your readership with you.
Last time I checked this wasn't your call, this was my call and I enjoy Pete's articles. I enjoy having an editor working with our site that uses more than the Windows Mobile Standard platform as it keeps everything fresh.

As Janak pointed out above, when you focus to much on one thing you quickly become a fanboy and then start making snarky comments on other peoples sites becuase you don't like that they covered something that was outside of your comfort zone.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:08 PM
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I think the debate is a perfectly good one.

I recall in the early days of PPC the Microsoft platform being dismissed by palm fanboys and looked what happened - where are palm today ? I am a smartphone fan and for me it just happened to be Microsoft who have been the innovators in this area in the last few years and that is why i use windows mobile. But I also try other platforms (I regularly use Symbian S60 on my N95) and real smartphone fans should always look at what the competition are doing and how our mobile experience can be developed.

The best thing about the 1st generation iphone (I bought one for my wife) is the music and video player. It was the first real convergence device. Audio, video, and phone. I know we had the ability on WM to do all those things but what made the iphone really simple to use is it was tied in to a good online purchasing experience. Prior to this I know lots of people that would carry a PPC but also use an ipod.

The second best thing with iphone 1st generation was the browser - again really simple to use but very useful and one of the best mobile internet experiences available.

I think the 2nd generation is a huge step forward - GPS, 3G, 3rd Party Apps (direct downloads to device) and the mobile me service. These additions will turn the previously good looking but fairly simple 1st generation phone in to a real best smartphone contender.

I have been using smartphones (and previously connected PDAs) for years and for me there are three parts to every good smartphone. The hardware, the software and the additional services.

If I buy a windows mobile device - it is usually network unlocked - its not that i cant get devices on a network its just that they take their time to arrive and are occasionally slowed down or hampered by poor network software additions. I normally buy additional software directly from the developer or via Handango mainly through a PC. The services I buy from the network - like data, or online services vary in cost and availability.

The reason i use a Nokia N95 as a second device - is that i got it for a good subsidized rate from my network, they provide unlimited data for a reasonable cost and they offered good additional services - it came with a slingbox and slingplayer and also allowed access to Orb. I get 80 hours per month for either slingbox or orb streaming plus unlimited data all for £10 per month. Now I would love it if the network provided this with a windows mobile phone but they don't - so i use an N95 and to be honest I think its a great device - the 5 megapixel camera and video recording are outstanding for a phone.


Apple appear to be in a unique position where they seem to have more control in the three key areas.

The hardware is good (could be better), they provide the software and media through iTunes, and they have convinced the networks to provide not just unlimited data but also free wifi in a lot of areas.

When the 2nd generation was announced my immediate reaction was that this was big news and will make a major dent in to the windows mobile market. Perhaps it could even kill off Windows Mobile which has such a bad image at the moment (mostly unjustified).

On reflection I think Apple have missed a trick - and surprisingly its in the hardware. They need to address two key areas. One is the fairly obvious text entry, the biggest complaint for 1st generation users. They should either come up with a slim slide out keyboard (not easy) or significantly improve the on screen experience - tactile response to onscreen presses would have been a start.

The second area and the most important for me is the camera(s). I have become so used to having a 5 megapixel camera that can do good video that i no longer feel i can do without it - I will use it on business trips to take video and pictures I need to share with colleagues. I use it regularly at weekends and even on holidays as my main camera. I also use the video call feature on my phone - not in everyday use but still regularly enough to not want to lose it.

I think some of the windows mobile devices due for release this year, the Xperia X1, Samsung Omnia, and HTC Diamond/pro - will give the 2nd generation iphone a run for its money.

But watch this space because Apple will be developing the hardware further (they are recruiting for camera engineers now) and expect to see another jump in spec for the 3rd generation Iphone. This time next year will be very interesting.
 
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete Paxton View Post
I'm just disappointed that MS hasn't countered with anything like it. Do some of you agree?
I for one am incredibly disappointed in Microsoft. The iPhone has been released for over a year and the best thing we have to counter it at the moment is to import the ridiculously expensive HTC Touch Diamond and even then the solution was provided by a third party company and not Microsoft themselves.

From what we have been hearing about for years is Microsoft has something incredible up their sleeves but unfortunately I have the feeling we won't see this incredible new platform arise until the technology itself will see dull and boring and then we're back at square one.

My honest opinion is Microsoft needs to stop screwing around and take complete control of their platform. Even if they do manage to get Windows Mobile 7 out the door and into the hands of manufactures and carriers before 2009, chances are we won't see any upgrades for our handsets at all and if we do they won't come out for months after the OS is released.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe that Microsoft is capable of pulling a rabbit out of the hat and making us all giddy with excitement over the new OS but on their current timetable the chances of that happening are slim to none.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:14 PM
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Sorry about the length of the last post - got away from me a little
 
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Augusto View Post
Pete uses email, web browsing and all of the other PIM features of his device... how is that a low requirement since the iPhone and his previous Windows Mobile devices are just that PIM devices?
He did not say PDA, he said mobile computer.

Quote:
Last time I checked this wasn't your call, this was my call and I enjoy Pete's articles. I enjoy having an editor working with our site that uses more than the Windows Mobile Standard platform as it keeps everything fresh.

As Janak pointed out above, when you focus to much on one thing you quickly become a fanboy and then start making snarky comments on other peoples sites becuase you don't like that they covered something that was outside of your comfort zone.
Of course its your call, and if you dont mind alienating your readership while WM grew 90% year on year, fine and good.



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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:42 PM
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It's getting a tad snippy in here.
 
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 09:54 PM
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I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone in this post. I'm kind of shocked that it did. I was just posting an interesting article, how it relates to other devices, and my opinion on it. Please know that I am not saying that the iPhone or any other handheld device is a portable computer. I did say however that the iPhone is the closest experience to a computer in my pocket that I've ever had. Again, that's for me. My experience. For what I use it for. Not everyone uses a desktop, laptop, or handheld device the same way. Believe me, if the i900 Omnia or any other future device proves to be a better mobile experience for me, I'll get one. If not, I will stick with the iPhone. It has been the most user friendly, stable, and most fun of any of the devices I've had not to mention it suits my (not necessarily your) needs.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2008, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janak Parekh View Post
However, do note that "portable computer" has no single definition, and all of you being completely dismissive of Pete's opinion aren't doing yourselves a favor. If you think the iPhone falls short, fine, and I do know some people for whom I wouldn't recommend the iPhone and have suggested WM or (waiting for) Android instead. But it doesn't mean he's an idiot or something.
Well, Pete's certainly not an idiot, but perhaps he doesn't share the same perspective as some others of us. Now I couldn't necessarily say the same for Tim as this is about as useless a column as I've run across in some time. It's not that I care whether or not he thinks the iPhone is a portable computer, but it's mildly irritating that he acts like the idea is something new as if it's only now that the iPhone exists that one might even ask such a question.

For heaven's sake, I was using a portable handheld computer back in 1998 when I bought my first Velo 1. Back then, the discussion of whether a particular device (say a Velo versus a Palm Pilot) can realistically be considered a handheld portable computer was relevant because the concept was new. (Hint: Yes, they're all portable handheld computers, including the iPhone.) In 2008, it just sounds silly for people to be writing about how they can use their iPhone in place of their laptops because I've been doing that for a decade with various Windows CE-based devices.

Heck, I've even given Powerpoint presentations directly from my handhelds/PPCs at professional conferences. Is anyone doing that on their iPhones yet? I've taken lengthy notes during presentations and emailed them to colleagues for comment in later sessions using my handheld/PPC instead of a laptop. I've sat in a bar with colleagues and built Excel spreadsheet models on my handheld/PPC that we used in a presentation the next day. This is all starting before the turn of the millennium. I'm sure it's all really neat if you've never seen it before, but none of this is new with the iPhone. It's old news.

It's as if Apple decided to build a car and the people who bought it wrote articles about how amazing it is that they can actually get in this new Applecar, turn it on and move quickly from place to place around their city. All these people who had never owned a car before would be thinking this was really revolutionary, while everyone else who had owned cars for years would think it was all just a bit hysterical and naive. (We would all agree, though, that whatever interface Apple had come up with to replace the steering wheel and pedals was totally cool.)

The funny thing is how Tim manages to sound like he's saying something provocative when he's really saying nothing at all. The whole article is just one inane meaningless phrase after another. Look at this one... "Over the past 11 months, it has morphed into a handheld computer." What exactly does this mean? Does he mean that, when you first bought your iPhone, it wasn't a handheld computer, but over time the hardware has physically changed and now it is? If you define a handheld computer as something that has a CPU and memory and that runs applications, then it always was one. If you require expansion and the attachment of peripherals in your definition (which I don't really agree with, but some here have suggested) then it wasn't and still isn't. It either always was or always wasn't a portable computer; it didn't 'morph' into anything.

Or how about this one... "I can't emphasize enough the fact that it is the software, coupled with a PC-class OS and Web browser, that will help make the iPhone the most portable computer on the market today—or even tomorrow." Huh? "The most portable computer?" It's certainly not the smallest handheld computer out there. For example, the HTC Touch is much smaller and it does everything the iPhone does and more. So 'most portable' doesn't seem to fit if you mean size. What else could he mean by 'most portable'? It doesn't have the longest battery life of all handheld computers so it's not the 'most portable' in that sense. It doesn't work in as many countries as a whole raft of other portable computing devices, so it's not the 'most portable' in that sense. Seriously, what is this guy even talking about?

I'm sorry, but the whole column makes no sense. From my perspective, it's just one more in a long line of articles that belong to the category of: 'I just love my iPhone so much I have to write about it even if I don't make any sense doing it'. It's the literary equivalent of standing on a beach shouting that you love your girlfriend back when you were wide-eyed and young. Love is a wonderful thing, but it's not always rational... as this article makes abundantly clear.
 
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