Hmmm. Jason. Any chance of a poll on this topic. I'm not suggesting rubbing HP's face in the dirt or anything but I'm wondering if this news would have a negative impact on a user's purchase decision for a product? Granted the average user will never know of these fascist type rules but it makes me wonder for the more suave, informed PPC user if this could slightly alter their attitude towards HP and their product line. :?:
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PDA History: Palm Pilot 5000 -> Apple Newton 2100 -> Casio E-11 -> iPaq 3650 (64MB Upgrade) -> iPaq 3700 -> Casio EM-500 -> HP Jornada 568 -> HP iPaq hx4705 www.spreadfirefox.com
Why on earth would HP want to stop info about "rumored" products? Its those sort of rumors that keep people excited about these new products.
I understand the reasons that companies try to keep those things underwraps, but there needs to be a balance between secracy and creating excitement for new products.
In an earlier thread, I said I would gladly become an "HP whore" if I got some of their stuff early But even I would do it if it meant stopping discussion of future products. Discussing new rumors are some of the biggest, best threads around in the forums.
Only reason I can see for this is HP is still trying to sell masses of 4355's, 4150's, 5555's and 2215's.
Jason, you made the right choice; I would have done the same on my site (TreoCentral.com).
The NDA'ed information is standard across the industry - I've always felt that the terms that PalmOne or other companies give are resonable. We get early info, so that our users can get accurate, indepth, and timely info. This is good for the companies because we (independant websites) give a much different news item than say, cnet will. It provides a depth of view to the launch of a product that will appeal to a different type of user (the first adopter etc).
But I've always felt that forums are off limit. We are not simply a shill for the company. Our users are not just passive people who answer first time users questions. They are an active group, and one of the fun things that fuels these discussion boards are the few threads talking about rumors. I could not even imagine trying to moderate those threads. I've always felt that the forums should allow as much free speech as we can, with the moderators censoring as little as possible. In fact, I should note, the only informal request from PalmOne my site has ever agreed to is to remove links to hacked firmware for the Treo that unlocks it. And under the DMCA those links were illegal, so we agreed to comply.
Shame on HP. They hold a type of power over these sites in supplying early reviews, information, but they will not ever control these sites. This was an attempted abuse of their power. Shame on HP. They do not understand their users if they think that it's alright for community sites to censor their forums to keep rumors quiet. I only hope that this idea doesn't spread to other companies because I would hate to have to end my relationship with PalmOne over this inane idea.
Good Job Jason, and to the other site owners who said no.
Thank you Jason! Three cheers :clap: :clap: :clap: . This is the integrity and accountability to your subscribers that I imagined was present at PockePCThoughts.com when I got hooked on the site. Now I'm 100% convinced that this is the case.
Trashing peoples thoughts (in this case subscriber posts) stinks of an earlier era that unfortunately hasn't disappeared in all parts of the world or even in some parts that it should have.
Actually asking someone to trash somebody else's posts is the embodiment of pure unadulterated SLEEZE :twisted:.
Maybe they should enrole in one of your classes. :roll:
To me, something that really stands out is word choice. Jason says he used to be a member of their "Enthusiast Program". That sounds pretty good. The title of the program now? Evangelist. To me, that word is over the top. When someone is an evangelist of basically anything, but I'm mainly talking about a gadget, a PDA, an OS, etc, it generally means that they promote it to the exclusion of all others, will not permit anything "bad" (even if true!) to be said about it, and are generally not very fun to talk to. HP seems to want these sites to act more as employees than third-party enthusiasts, and unless they're going to pony up a salary, health plan, and retirement plan, it's a bit unreasonable.
I prefer being an Exhortationist -- someone that encourages people to take positive action, but, not at the exclusion of other positive action.
Most product leaks come from people sharing information that's under NDA to their organization or that they stumbled upon by accident -- and of course, leaks from the top source of credible information -- the FCC. But, the overwhelming amount of leaked info comes from sources that are under NDA. I've always been uncomfortable posting leaked info as I know it's not really supposed to be out and about. There are people's jobs and lives tied to every product release and I'd hate to think that a post of leaked information caused one of those people pain or discomfort -- or even job loss -- in any way.
Now, once the product is out -- that's a different story. If the hard working team of people didn't get it right -- well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm sort of surprised that HP isn't requiring their Evangelist members to live by the rule my Mom had -- if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
Maybe HP should take a page from the Jeff Hawkins "outting" of the Treo 600 -- leverage the buzz rather than try to plug the leaks. Managing buzz for good rather than squashing leaks is playing to win and not playing "not to lose."
I'm not suggesting rubbing HP's face in the dirt or anything but I'm wondering if this news would have a negative impact on a user's purchase decision for a product? Granted the average user will never know of these fascist type rules but it makes me wonder for the more suave, informed PPC user if this could slightly alter their attitude towards HP and their product line. :?:
Well Jonathan, Pleased to meet you. You've found your first suave, informed PPC user. I wasn't really interested in the new units, but I was considering the top of the line 4700 as one of the replacements for my 1915 - I just took it off the list. These kind of fascist tactics clinched it.
HP just doesn't understand that we - the power users - can make or break their new products. We're all well informed, and we know the difference between a good and a bad product. We will shower you with praise if you do good, but we'll also nail you to the wall if you deserve it - like the 1715. They can't tell us what we can and can't say, and I applaud Jason's decision in this matter (Not that we'd leave him much choice )
I'd rather have a community that can freely discuss these products and issues then a site that is forced to moderate their users just so they can get units and feed us the party line.
I'm sure HP is trying to protect sales of current devices, but let's face it if the information is out there, that ship has already sailed, so to speak.
Their previous program made the sense from every practical matter, yet they decided to kill it, as if rumor posting on enthusiast sites was why their stock has been sliding. :!:
We shouldn't be surprised, as from any practical standpoint, HP has been making one boneheaded decision after another since the 1st of the year. It is becoming more and more obvious they don't want "enthusiast users" and would much prefer to market to Joe Consumer - I think they are probably trying to market to a segment that doesn't exist yet. :|
:?
Granted the average user will never know of these fascist type rules but it makes me wonder for the more suave, informed PPC user if this could slightly alter their attitude towards HP and their product line. :?:
Maybe not, but they don't have to know about the rules to be affected by them. If they search for information pre-release because their friend told them something cool was coming out, they're going to see the sites that have the pre-release info, not the sites that delete all the posts. If they ask on the "Evangelist" sites about these devices, and their post gets deleted, what are they going to think? Will the moderator there send them the terms of the HP NDA? Or will it just be "we don't allow this discussion"? Or no comment at all?
And if they're just searching for "pocket pc" because they don't know if they want an ipaq or not, and a large number of the sites they find with this search have reviews of a bunch of devices *except* the ipaqs, they may wonder why, ask, and be told. Or they wouldn't wonder why, they just will think there aren't any new HPs.
The users that just buy at brick and mortars and don't research online won't be affected. But devices like the 4700 don't seem to be IN those stores all that much.
Also, not all people making the PDA-related purchasing decisions for companies will frequent the forums. It's possible that these type of sales will be enough to make the loss of end-user sales irrelevant (to HP).
But even I would do it if it meant stopping discussion of future products. Discussing new rumors are some of the biggest, best threads around in the forums.
Re: HP's New Rules for Enthusiast Sites - And Why I Resigned from the Program
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