There's a reason why Apple can get to dictate this. They know they have a product they can sell. The carriers know this too.
It's not just Apple, though; as another pointed out, RIM can also do updates.
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I think one problem MS has is that there's a OEM in the middle of it all too. If they're used to dealing with the carriers in one way, MS has less choice in this matter. Probably a reason why they bought Danger. Having both the hardware and software could make the difference on the negotiation table.
Agreed. I think this is a much bigger part of the problem than the carrier-control issue (which is a part, but one that has been solved for certain devices and should be solved generally for smartphones). The problem with Danger is their strategy is strictly consumer. Let's see what Microsoft does with it, though -- there's some very useful technology in there!
I'm dealing with this issue right now, but as regards a WM PDA.
I've used both Palms and Pocket PC's for the last 10 years, pretty equally actually. I have a (new to me) HP HX4700. I has WM 2003SE. I'd like to upgrade it to 6.0 and skip the atrocious WM 5.0 that was released by HP.
Jason hit the nail on the head: the OS updates are left up to the vendor or OEM, when they should be the responsibility of the OS company, in this case M$.
When the OEM's have the responsibility for OS or ROM updates, the users mostly get left in the cold. The OS should be the same and work the same on any vendor's device so that there's no learning curve for the user. M$ writes the base OS, but then the OEM's add so much bloat that in some cases, the OS doesn't even have the same interface from one device to the other.
In the case of the HX4700, HP botched the release of 5.0 (which was late) and left users in a lurch when it came to 6.0 updates. Users (intrepid ones at that), are left to try to load ROM's cooked from code and ported to their device.
It'd be much simpler if M$ handled everything. At least the users would have only one company to deal with.
We're talking about updating the OS, not individual applications. Actually, I'd say the upgrade experience on WM is a bit cleaner than it currently is on Apple's Touch platform.
--janak
Do you think? I did the 2.0.1 upgrade on my iPhone 3G and it took 15 minutes, 10 of which was the download time. No apps lost, no settings lost. Just click one button, get a cup of tea and come back to an upgraded and working phone.
Do you think? I did the 2.0.1 upgrade on my iPhone 3G and it took 15 minutes, 10 of which was the download time. No apps lost, no settings lost. Just click one button, get a cup of tea and come back to an upgraded and working phone.
Sorry, I was being really unclear. I was talking about app upgrades -- and the story is mixed there. The iPhone OS's behavior of uninstalling and reinstalling apps is very clean, but it's a bit annoying -- the icon moves and data embedded within the app is often lost. I'm not sure if the latter can be fixed, but if not, WM's upgrade process is at least inline.
There is no doubt that the OS upgrade process on the iPhone is miles better than any WM upgrader I've seen (Palm's pretty much the only vendor that takes steps to make it easy to reset the state of your WM device, and it's still quite a bit more cumbersome).
(On the other hand, you can upgrade straight from the mobile device, which WM still doesn't have a central facility for. )
(On the other hand, you can upgrade straight from the mobile device, which WM still doesn't have a central facility for. )
--janak
Really, Please tell me how? I haven't seen that yet. I mean PSP's do that...but the iPod Touch...don't know how...
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Originally Posted by UnxMully
Do you think? I did the 2.0.1 upgrade on my iPhone 3G and it took 15 minutes, 10 of which was the download time. No apps lost, no settings lost. Just click one button, get a cup of tea and come back to an upgraded and working phone.
Not so much for me...
The update from 1.x took hours (cable lite) to download and hours to install. The 2.0.1 update looked to be the same size in download so I left it overnight.
The scenario between Apple and Microsoft is too different:
Alex Kac wrote a related post on his blog. This was then covered here .
In there; I wrote:
"I have to honestly say there is no solution. Nor can there be.
The iPhone hardware "One size fits all" is not a solution. I like the variety in hardware. It gives me options. If my needs change and I require a quick BB keyboard style solution or if I wanted to keep my current Touch setup. I want that choice. To not have that is just wrong! I'd move to a company and OS that would give me that choice really quickly. Having had more devices than sense has taught me how some devices are better at something as opposed to others.
Competition means HTC et al are forced to add customizations to stand out. TouchFlo made the HTC Touch a *Star. This leads to the TouchFlo 2.0 on the Diamond and Raphael. Is that wrong? No!
In all, the real issue is really better code and better documentation. Isn't it?
HTC could do a much better job of building their drivers and writing cleaner apps with better documentation "PS we changed this because...so work around it by ...." Is that likely? Prolly not.""
Those same customizations that make updates difficult is what lets Samsung / HTC / etc compete against each other.
It kinda reminds me of an amusing personal anecdote:
I once got stuck on a deserted island with an airplane load of MS, Apple and Linux engineers.
The MS engineers built a rudimentary raft that slowly took on water meaning my feet were nearly always wet. To void my bowels, I'd have to lean over the side and possibly risk drowning. Otherwise, I was free to do whatever I'd like...
The Apple guys adapted a blueprint from the Linux guys and built a beautiful Yacht replete with Galley and flushing toilet. For my safety and other considerations, I could only use the observation deck between 09:00-10:30 on Wed, my bathroom times would be 06:00, 13:30, 22:10 and meal times would be 07:00, 12:00, 19:00 hours with Black Tie formal in effect. For the remainder of the duration, I was urged to remain in my cabin at all times.
The linux guys began arguing about the source trees and were branching off in different directions. One even built a Cloth and Balsa glider, only to be turned back by the FAA for not obtaining the appropriate licensing.
But anyway, I digress.... It was the trip of a lifetime. LOL
Really, Please tell me how? I haven't seen that yet. I mean PSP's do that...but the iPod Touch...don't know how...
The App Store can discover and install upgrades for you with the touch of a button. (Note, I'm talking about app upgrades as opposed to firmware upgrades. Both are floating in this thread, and I've already poorly distinguished them once. )
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The update from 1.x took hours (cable lite) to download and hours to install.
That sounds anomalous, as if perhaps the USB was communicating slower than usual.
That sounds anomalous, as if perhaps the USB was communicating slower than usual.
--janak
My upgrade took a few hours as well. The actual download was quite zippy, though. Everything else I connect via USB to this computer performs as expected except of course for the application data sync that happens every time I sync with iTunes. Music sync (other than initial post-firmware update syncs) also performs as I expect it would. I'm thinking that perhaps Cybrid's and my iPods are from "iffy" batches - transferring 100MB or so of data is fine, anything more takes longer than should be expected.
The App Store can discover and install upgrades for you with the touch of a button. (Note, I'm talking about app upgrades as opposed to firmware upgrades. Both are floating in this thread, and I've already poorly distinguished them once. )
That sounds anomalous, as if perhaps the USB was communicating slower than usual.
--janak
I see... Yea that could be cool. Some Win Mo apps do that already, and have done so for quite some time... pocketHTML?, currency converter... Some newer Pocket Informant 8 have that ability too.
Well the USB has been tested on several PC's
My sons Sempron 3000+ XP box
My old Sempron 2800+ Vista box
My Brand new Quad Core Vista box (Acer Aspire 5100m)
I didn't see any speed improvements...
Im gonna update that thread with the rest of my "news"
I see... Yea that could be cool. Some Win Mo apps do that already, and have done so for quite some time... pocketHTML?, currency converter... Some newer Pocket Informant 8 have that ability too.
Yes, I know; on the App Store, though, it's standardized: all apps use the same upgrade mechanism. This makes it really easy for consumers, albeit limiting for power users.
Yes, I know; on the App Store, though, it's standardized: all apps use the same upgrade mechanism. This makes it really easy for consumers, albeit limiting for power users.
--janak
Just as a curious note: Without any videos on... 3.x Gb is being taken up by a listing known only as "other". Is this the apps. Sheesh they're huge!
Jason's Right On...
Actually, I'd say the upgrade experience on WM is a bit cleaner than it currently is on Apple's Touch platform.
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