OS/2 was a nice OS, and I used it for several years at work, daily, as it was far more stable than Windows 3.1, and could still run all of the Win apps I needed. But it also had its quirks.
Back on topic. I think that the Zune is fine; I'd love to see it succeed, if only to keep Apple spurred on to improve the iPod line. I' do wonder if the Zune suffers a bit for not having a Touch-like product yet. I am sure that Microsoft hoped that the Zune could be priced in the premium product tier to be thought the same as the iPod, and were probably worried that cutting the price would make consumers think of the brand as step down in quality, perhaps like a Ford compared with a BMW. If I am right about that, I am sure that there was a point where they determined if the sales did not grow fast enough, it would be time to try to grab share by cutting price and clearly trying to show value for the dollar spent. Though I could be wrong about that, too.
I did spend weeks reripping all of my albums into MP3 format last year, on the off chance that someday I'd have something other than an iPod. The only FM stations that I listen to stream, and my NPR shows all podcast, so I can listen to them when I wish. (Though I did buy the Apple FM Remote a few years ago, I've rarely used it to listen to FM; I've only really used it for the remote, and I haven't done that in over a year now. I don't really need FM.)
I'm not writing this to bash the Zune, and you'll rarely see me write a post like this here[....]
Promise? It sure sounded like bashing to me, though, and I don't own a Zune (or an iPod).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Ferrari
The amount of desperation exhibited by Microsoft here is almost to the point of being embarassing and if they want people to think of the Zune as a first-class device, it's time they stopped acting like it was a second-class citizen.
As it appears they've only lowered the prices on the flash-based Zunes, maybe they're thinking the same thing I said in the Holiday Gloom? thread -- that smart phones are eating into the market for smaller players, and this price cut is in response to that.
If they were desperate about the Zunes in general, wouldn't all models be getting price cuts?
Underpowered WiFi: DRM gets tagged to the songs you 'squirt' to other Zune users whether you have it on the original or not. That's inexcusable. Period. Not everything on everyone's Zune is RIAA music. Secondly, unless I'm mistaken, you STILL have to plug it into a power source to do a wireless sync. Honestly, if I'm going to do a wireless sync, why should I have to use a wire? The only difference is instead of plugging in a sync cable, I'm plugging in a power cable. That's insane DRM; tagging it on files just because you can.
Subscriptions: Meaningless. I would never subscribe to music. I can find new music on Pandora or Last.fm quite easily and when I buy it, I own it. I imagine the subscription model is great if you don't mind risking the fact that your whole collection could go dead tomorrow. That's not really my game, but if that floats your boat, go for it. If Steve creates it, iTunes will have it. Of course he'll position it as great stuff, but that won't mean I'll believe it.
Number One Store: iTunes is the number one music retailer in the world. That's indisputable. Unless the label has made unencrypted AAC available on iTunes, your Zune won't do anything with it.
Fanboyism: Does this ever get old? They exist on other platforms; they're just called enthusiasts.
Look, if you actually read my post, you'll see most of my criticism is Microsoft's handling of the device, not the device itself. A lot of bad decisions snowballing into more bad decisions snowballing into them treating the Zune like a bargain basement device while telling you "No, really, it isn't!"
Microsoft shouldn't be competing on price. They've tried that since the beginning and it's left them solidly nowhere. They can't call the device a premium device and a serious competitor if their entire business model is based on undercutting a device that, for the most part, people don't care about the price of.
The iPod didn't get where it is based on hype; it got where it is because it's better. Not because it's cheaper. Microsoft had a big opportunity after the Touch came out and blew it and basically launched the same devices plus the first gen Nano. If that says to you that they take the market and the device seriously, then so be it. To me, it says they just don't care and just want to have "something out there."
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Current Apple Stuff: 24" iMac, iPhone 4, AppleTV (original), 4gb Shuffle, 64gb iPad 2.
Underpowered WiFi: DRM gets tagged to the songs you 'squirt' to other Zune users whether you have it on the original or not. That's inexcusable. Period. Not everything on everyone's Zune is RIAA music. Secondly, unless I'm mistaken, you STILL have to plug it into a power source to do a wireless sync. Honestly, if I'm going to do a wireless sync, why should I have to use a wire? The only difference is instead of plugging in a sync cable, I'm plugging in a power cable. That's insane DRM; tagging it on files just because you can.
By your logic, Apple is the biggest transgressor of all, since they don't even allow peer-to-peer sharing. That's the most inexcusable form of DRM - a completely closed system. Ignoring that strawman, how is this inexcusable? It's not a means of sharing files - it's a means of sharing music. If you want to give someone a permanent copy of something to which you own the rights, fine - but that is not the intent of this feature. Your argument is like complaining that your car doesn't fly. Sure, but don't expect a whole lot of sympathizers.
Yes, you are mistaken about wireless sync. If you want it to sync automatically in the background, then, yes, it has to be plugged in. That only makes sense, otherwise you would drain your battery. If that doesn't jive with you, I'm at a loss. If you want to do initiate a sync, you can do that without being plugged in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Ferrari
Subscriptions: Meaningless. I would never subscribe to music. I can find new music on Pandora or Last.fm quite easily and when I buy it, I own it. I imagine the subscription model is great if you don't mind risking the fact that your whole collection could go dead tomorrow. That's not really my game, but if that floats your boat, go for it. If Steve creates it, iTunes will have it. Of course he'll position it as great stuff, but that won't mean I'll believe it.
That's fine - you don't see how it fits into your listening habits. From my perspective, it's virtually indispensible. I find it as unimaginable that people can't understand it as you find it that people do. I won't insult you with a "meaningless" comment, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Ferrari
Number One Store: iTunes is the number one music retailer in the world. That's indisputable. Unless the label has made unencrypted AAC available on iTunes, your Zune won't do anything with it.
iTMS may be biggest, but what does that matter? It doesn't offer anything you can't get elsewhere.
Also, DRM for non-subscription music is a dying breed. Even buying into your "iTMS is biggest" argument doesn't get you very far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Ferrari
Fanboyism: Does this ever get old? They exist on other platforms; they're just called enthusiasts.
Look, if you actually read my post, you'll see most of my criticism is Microsoft's handling of the device, not the device itself. A lot of bad decisions snowballing into more bad decisions snowballing into them treating the Zune like a bargain basement device while telling you "No, really, it isn't!"
I read you saying that, but, if you read your post, that's not what you wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Ferrari
Microsoft shouldn't be competing on price. They've tried that since the beginning and it's left them solidly nowhere. They can't call the device a premium device and a serious competitor if their entire business model is based on undercutting a device that, for the most part, people don't care about the price of.
Why not? They have a great featureset - they need to get users, so price is a great way to do that.
By your logic, Apple is the biggest transgressor of all, since they don't even allow peer-to-peer sharing. That's the most inexcusable form of DRM - a completely closed system. Ignoring that strawman, how is this inexcusable? It's not a means of sharing files - it's a means of sharing music. If you want to give someone a permanent copy of something to which you own the rights, fine - but that is not the intent of this feature. Your argument is like complaining that your car doesn't fly. Sure, but don't expect a whole lot of sympathizers.
They don't claim to and then deliver on the feature half-way.
. If you want it to sync automatically in the background, then, yes, it has to be plugged in. That only makes sense, otherwise you would drain your battery. If that doesn't jive with you, I'm at a loss. If you want to do initiate a sync, you can do that without being plugged in.
Don't be at a loss. That was the way I understood it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets
That's fine - you don't see how it fits into your listening habits. From my perspective, it's virtually indispensible. I find it as unimaginable that people can't understand it as you find it that people do. I won't insult you with a "meaningless" comment, though.
When did calling a feature meaningless become insulting someone? I don't think I ever said YOU'RE meaningless. If I did, and you can find me that quote, I'll happily apologize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets
iTMS may be biggest, but what does that matter? It doesn't offer anything you can't get elsewhere.
It's the biggest both in sales and library. By having the biggest library, by default, there are things there you won't be able to get elsewhere (aside from brick and mortar).
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets
Also, DRM for non-subscription music is a dying breed. Even buying into your "iTMS is biggest" argument doesn't get you very far.
Yeah because it's definitely going away. Emusic and Amazon FTW, huh? Truth is that we've been hearing about how DRM will die and yet day in and day out, it hasn't gone anywhere. Have things lightened up? Sure, but it's still there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets
Why not? They have a great featureset - they need to get users, so price is a great way to do that.
Is it? It hasn't worked thus far.
My frustration comes from a very simple perspective. Microsoft had a prime opportunity to dominate the market, and instead came out with the first Zune. Fair enough. First gen devices don't usually blow us away. Then they came out with Zune 2.0 which was, essentially, the same device with different firmware. Now they have the new Zunes which, again, are almost the same as the prior generation. Microsoft doesn't seem to want to compete on anything but price; that to me spells disaster.
A couple of years ago, Samsung pursued that same strategy. They decided they were going to "flood the market" with inexpensive devices that everyone who didn't want an iPod would buy. They didn't want to compete on features either, and yet many of their devices had the same features as the iPod. What happened? Well, when was the last time you saw someone using a Samsung MP3 player?
Exactly.
Microsoft, the only chance at a legitimate competitor for Apple's iPod, has dropped the ball and decided to be "Not the iPod." That may work for some people. Hell, there's even a site called "anythingbutipod.com" for people who want anything but an iPod. But if you're going after the mass market, saying you're not something as a reason to motivate customers just doesn't work, as the Zune's "success" has proven.
I would love to see Apple get some serious competition. It would motivate them to improve their devices if someone was breathing down their neck. That's my frustration right now, and that's where this post came from.
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Current Apple Stuff: 24" iMac, iPhone 4, AppleTV (original), 4gb Shuffle, 64gb iPad 2.
I don't think you understand subscriptions. If they didn't exist, I would still only listen to radio. I never have and never will own much music. I enjoy it...but not so much that I want to spend thousands of dollars on it. I assure you that I will listen to far more music than you can ever dream of through my subscription. It expanded my music horizons. You're living in a black and white world and don't know it because you haven't experienced color.
*oops from David...why are the Edit and Quote keys next to each other* Sorry from the other guys I don't remember what was here but I accidently managed to write over it!
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Current Apple Stuff: 24" iMac, iPhone 4, AppleTV (original), 4gb Shuffle, 64gb iPad 2.
Last edited by David Tucker; 11-20-2008 at 05:03 AM..
Anyway, what I meant to say (without deleting your post...I'm really sorry!) was I can't believe you could construe that as a personal attack. I'm singing the praises of the subscription model (which I used for years before the Zune existed) and that's a personal attack to you? That just says to me you wanted to feel persecuted. Honestly, you made very damning statements about the Zune, a product you clearly have limited knowledge of, because much of your impressions are at best partially correct.
Don't even get me started! I went from the Amiga to OS/2 2.11 all the way to Warp 4 and almost cried when IBM bailed...
Desperation?
It sure sounded like bashing to me, though, and I don't own a Zune (or an iPod).
Sorry from the other guys 
Linear Mode
