[Snowmation]

The Zune price cut part of Cnet's The Buzz Report was mad funny (as was the Yahoo story). Videos - Free video downloads and streaming video - CNET TV

Yeah I know I just added to the fire here.....but when its funny, bashing is good. lol

[Snowmation]

The Zune price cut part of Cnet's The Buzz Report was mad funny (as was the Yahoo story). Videos - Free video downloads and streaming video - CNET TV

Yeah I know I just added to the fire here.....but when its funny, bashing is good. lol

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Janak Parekh

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people take criticism of their favorite company as a personal attack. This happens on both sides, and it's stupid. I own a ton of Apple products, but a rare day goes by where I don't call them dumb or lame for something.

--janak

There is definitely fanboyism on the MS side, as well. However, the problem with this thread is that, unlike Vincent's other, well-thought out posts, the original post here was conclusory and not well researched or supported.

The conclusion that Microsoft's price cuts are a "desperation" move is contrary to conventional wisdom, which is that prices decline over time, they decline to increase competition, they decline during the holidays, and they decline during recessions. All three are at play here. Apple's unwillingness to move on pricing is a sign of their market strength - it's not "normal".

Furthermore, the logic of the argument in the initial post is mostly unsupported. You have to show your work, or else it does come across as, effectively, an ad hominem attack (regardless of your intent).

Lastly, the supporting facts aren't well researched or explained. Wifi and DRM are vaguely cited as problems, but it's not clear how so.

Some of these issues were addressed in subsequent posts, but by omitting them from the initial post, it comes across as a "M$ sucks because they didn't do the things that Apple did" post.

Vincent - I hope you take this as constructive feedback, which is the intent. If this comes across as anything else, let me know and I'll try to update the post to be more clear.

[Vincent Ferrari]

Okay. I'm making an executive decision here.

This thread is officially dead.

It's going nowhere anyway.

I'll be more careful in the future. Promise.

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by Deslock

At first I was a little surprised that Jason started applethoughts, but it makes sense considering that ppcthoughts initially emerged from the ashes of pdabuzz (which had a large community in no small part due to PPC/PalmOS flamefests - and many of those users migrated to ppcthoughts when Wes Salmon left pdabuzz). Spirited debates attract users.

This isn't on-topic, but I felt I should respond to this: while it's true that when PDAbuzz went up in flames (so to speak) Pocket PC Thoughts did get an influx of community members from that site, I can assure you that were were around long before that happened, and had our own community. We did not "emerge from the ashes" of PDAbuzz.

Originally Posted by Deslock

The point is that 2M units sold in 1.5 years and no launch outside of N America is not exactly steller in a market this big. Even if wikipedia's numbers are off, can anyone really call Zune a success?

I think it's been a success only if you look at it for what it is: a new product, a new brand, competing against a massively established brand. I don't think ANY product from ANY company at ANY price could dislodge the iPod overnight. When a company has such massive control over the market, you can't overthrow them - you have to chip away at them slowly. Just ask Apple when it comes to the desktop/laptop space.

The Zune has so far only been fully launched in one country. Why aren't they launching in more countries? Why doesn't Canada have a Zune Marketplace yet? Why haven't they created a smaller Flash-based Zune or a touch-screen Zune? All great questions. It seems like Microsoft isn't giving the Zune enough resources to really compete with Apple, and I think that's what Vincent was getting at...

[Jason Dunn]

Originally Posted by robschoenfel

"What a wind bag" is name calling and "Zune Price Cuts = Desperation" isn't? What sort of double standard censorship do you allow in the name of page hits.

Calling someone a "wind bag" is a personal attack. The Zune is not a person, hence it cannot be personally attacked. The Zune does not have feelings, I assure you. An inflammatory headline? Certainly. But it's not "name calling". It's one thing to criticize a product or a company - it's quite another to criticize a person and call them names. If you can't see the difference, I'm not sure what else to say.

Originally Posted by robschoenfel

The fact that you allow this makes me question your ethics Jason, your simply in it for the advertising dollars and not interested in providing fair unbaised facts about the subject matter in question. For the name calling I am sorry, but for your greedy pocket lining ways you should be ashamed. I will not be coming back to any of your sites and will encourage like minded poeple to not as well.

Because I discourage name-calling in our forums, you're questioning my ethics? That's a bit strange. I don't like to see bullying in any form, and name calling is bullying. Most would consider that ethical behaviour.

Again I have to remind you that a site called "Apple Thoughts" isn't going to be un-biased. This isn't CNN where journalists try to remain neutral and only present the facts to their viewers. A site with the name "Apple Thoughts" is going to be, GASP, pro-Apple! It's a site for Apple enthusiasts BY Apple enthusiasts, just like Pocket PC Thoughts is a site run by Windows Mobile enthusiasts. What part of that don't you understand?

[Jason Dunn]

...and I have to apologize for not noticing that this thread was locked before I made my last two responses. I agree with Vincent's decision to lock this thread - it ceased being a healthy debate somewhere around page three.

Healthy debate means people can disagree with the ideas of another person. Name calling is not part of a healthy debate, and personal attacks have no place in these forums. Please remember that in the future.