Mac vs Windows, Linux vs Windows, Atari vs Amiga (dating myself a little), Ford vs Chevy... these kind of debates have been around forever. Most people like to think the choice they make is the right one. Many of them will argue until they're blue in the face, even if the "other side" offers some good points.
Personally, I think Windows Mobile is a more capable OS. I find it gives me more of a "computer" experience than Palm. Not everyone wants that though, and for some Palm might be the better choice. That doesn't mean it's better (or worse), just better for them.
I was impressed by the Palm T3 when it came out, to the point of buying one with every intention of switching back. As much as I loved the hardware, I just couldn't deal with the OS.
Every six months or so, I try to make the transition from Palm to PPC, but it never lasts. When PPC developers stop wasting screen real estate on bulky controls, maybe the transition will go better for me. There are a few programs I can't live without on my Palm, and there are no good alternatives on PPC:
- SDSTime: a simple timesheet program where I can see an entire week at a glance, with all project names, and times for each day of the week in calendar format... still waiting for something like this on PPC. I've evaluated about 9 apps, and none does this.
- Day Notez - a simple daily journal that organizes entries by date and time, and shows them in a sorted list that allows filtering by keywords. Every equivalent in PPC has a poor UI, no filtering, and builky timestamps.
- MemoPLUS - a text memo program that can password protect selected memos with unique passwords. Not all memos, not one password at program entry... a password prompt when opening a memo in the list, and the possibility of a different password for each memo.
- Card Export - a program that lets me see my SD card as a drive on my Windows PC through the sync cable.
I'm pinning my hopes on StyleTap to solve the first three (still some bugs, though). The last one I *might* be able to live without, but only if everything else is good.
I'm trying, I really am. But PPC forces me back every time.
POS is really Windows 3.1 level. People like Kirvin continue to pretend this is enough, but Palm users are slowly being forced by competition to see how little they actually get for their money.
Because the comparison is quite embarrassing Palm people really don't like being reminded of the weakness of their platform, especially on 1src.com, which is really very insular.
In Podcast 23 Kirvin really put his foot into it, leading him to eat a lot of crow in Podcast 24. If my platform was actively sinking itself I would maintain a lower profile.
On the other hand, some people just don't live in the same reality as we do...
There are a few programs I can't live without on my Palm, and there are no good alternatives on PPC: Card Export - a program that lets me see my SD card as a drive on my Windows PC through the sync cable.
I don't use PIM that extensively so I can't comment on the first three, but you can see all of a PPC's directories through activesync. Just go to mobile device in windows explorer, and then you can navigate to card/all the ram, etc. It's more convenient too because you can sync while doing this. Downside is that since it's not mounted as a disc and microsoft apparently thought you'd want an original copy of data on your computer, so you can't cut+paste data in, and it's slower than direct usb.
I'm kinda curious...
If Cobalt and Garnet are so great, why did PalmSource have to go buy a Linux house to provide the core OS for a *third* POS line?
To me it seems like they're saying their existing architecture just doesn't scale *up* to the kind of handhelds needed to stay in the game past 2005...
...the same message I get when I see Nokia resorting to Linux instead of Symbian for their webpad.
In both cases I see an admission that, while WinCE scales up beautifully (the only question with CE has been scaling *down* to smartphones) to data-centric and multimedia devices, their platforms are not robust enough to handle multi-threaded lifestyles and the apps needed to compete.
I'm sure at some point CE will run out of headroom for user needs and demands, but by that time we'll likely be runing full XP in our handhelds...
...and the date will be closer to 2015 than 2005...
8)
Cheers!
What is it exactly that Windows Mobile can do that PalmOS devices can't? Out of the box it comes down to Remote Desktop connections, network share access and collecting mail/downloading a web page at the same time. That's about it. Conversely it seems that no matter how fast a CPU you put into a Windows Mobile device you never get away from the spinning 'wait' cursor and no matter how many times MS renames and updates the OS they still can't get the alarms to work reliably.
I use both and support users who use both too. Trust me the only difference is that WM users like to think they do more with their devices.
If you haven't had any recent experience of PalmOS devices then you should get some before putting forward a baseless opinion. Comparing a Palm IIIc and an Axim X5 - thats like saying a 1980s Austin Metro doesn't have the same extras as an 05 BMW, a completely worthless comparison.
If you want to compare the volume and quality of add-on software for either platform then that is valid, but really other than the superior web experience there's no real advantage to using a Windows Mobile device out of the box. Want to make some interesting comparisons, explain to me how a £70 Zire can fly through applications whilst an Axim X50v clunks along like a three-legged dog? Or why in the time it takes a Tosh e800 to fire up and hand control to its user, the T5 owner has fired up, updated their calendar, created some notes and powered down again.
Taking endless potshots at the competition doesn't serve any purpose. What should be on the front page of Pocket PC Thoughts are headlines like "Windows Mobile 5 - fifth time lucky for reliable alarms?", "WTF - no software upgrades again!" or how about "Activesync 4 - pray God they fixed it this time". Maybe issues will be sorted and then the comparisons will be rendered unnecessary...
elbowz- in theory any Turing machine can emulate another Turing machine. That does not mean its useful or elegant to emulate a proper modern OS on a Palm.
PalmOS was designed to work like cheap casio databanks, which also just happened to be able to run other software. Win Ce was designed from the start to be a modern 32 bit OS. On Palms the hacks keep multiplying trying to catch up with modern computers e.g the cooperative multi-tasking solution, and this has made the device more and more unstable.
Meanwhile Windows Mobile continues to grow into its potential as a do-it-all grownup OS.
On POS its now acceptable to soft-reset 6-9 times per day. 2 seconds lag is now perfectly normal, and 6 seconds is just peachy too. Due to the cobbled together OS they are also not getting the latest software, while WM benefits from easy porting from desktop apps. Music stutters when played in the background with almost every activity. These things are accepted for the much vaunted "Zen of Palm". They even pay over the odds for all this.
Some people remain in abusive relationships due to poor self-esteem. I think that explains a lot about Palmistas.
Jeff is such a partisan that listening to him is pretty much a waste of time. He uses misinformation, half-facts, and false equivocations in his attempts to validate his beliefs. When confronted with real facts, he has avoided to respond to some of my questions to him. He can blog, podcast, or publish all he wants but he already compromised his credibility so I really don't react to much of his spin and propaganda.
Now that the Lifedrive has wifi, he probably thinks that wifi on a pda is good. The last time he and I chatted, he felt the bluetooth was all you'll ever need and wifi was a waste.
Comparing a Palm IIIc and an Axim X5 - thats like saying a 1980s Austin Metro doesn't have the same extras as an 05 BMW, a completely worthless comparison.
It is a fair comparison, as both were marketed to the same market roughly around the same time. However I was not actually comparing them. What I said was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathon Watkins
I won a Palm IIIc when I worked at 3Com and promptly passed it onto a friend and bought my Dell X5 Pocket PC.
I.e. even when the almost-top-of-the-line Palm was free, I still prefered to buy a Pocket PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbowz
... explain to me how a £70 Zire can fly through applications whilst an Axim X50v clunks along like a three-legged dog?
I can't explain it, because they don't. :P Exactly which applications does the Zire beat the X50v on? My X50v is just spiffy thanks very much. :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbowz
... Taking endless potshots at the competition doesn't serve any purpose.
So what was your post about then? :wink: On a serious note though, it is useful for new users to be able to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses of each platform before buying, but just about every 'unbiased' comparison of the mobile platforms Ive seen has been heavily slanted one way or the other. In the end, people tend to prefer one platform over the other and become 'committed' to it. It's hard throwing away the investment in software, training and experience to switch to another platform. It also (perhaps incorrectly) implies you made a mistake in the first place of committing to that platform if you then change away from it.
I do like the ways that 'friendly' competition spurs on greater development on the mobile platforms, but it really does look like Palm is heading out of the game unless they seriously pull up their socks. :?
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You've all talked about how all Palm users are "fanboys" and how there really is no comparison - Windows Mobile is superior.
I hate to say it, but you're all fanboys yourselves. That's not an insult, but just a natural role we end up taking. No one wants to say that the device their using isn't the best. Everyone naturally justifies their purchase and overlooks the flaws.
As one poster said, you also get comfortable with what you're used to.
As a supplier of both PocketPC and Palm to the medical profession, I've had to play with both, and current ones.
BOTH have their own flaws, and they don't suit the same type of user.
PocketPCs suit most of you because they are more powerful, and, more importantly, more configurable.
But that's not for everyone. 95% of the customers I serve aren't after power and bragging rights. They just want to get the job done. In the case of most of the medicos, that means access to medical resources and basic PIM functionality.
Very few of them are willing to sacrifice battery life and size for poweruser features like 640 x 480 resolution.
Palm devices are simpler to use, and, contrary to what one poster here has said, don't crash 6-9 times a day. They also launch faster and are less complicated (wow you can actually quit applications when you say quit!) The downside is a less pretty interface and less features - Wifi is only built into the lifedrive. There is also alot less choice. For the record, I setup and use the whole range, ie Zire, T5, LifeDrive, E, E2, Treo 650.
Windows mobile machines are definitely more extensible, the OS is prettier, there are more devices covering a wider range of options, and there are PDAs to satisfy the heaviest power user.
But it also has it's downsides. Activesync isn't exactly the best syncing software. Windows mobile is a real pain when something goes wrong, just like a pc. Spewing multiple little files everywhere doesn't make for an easy fix. I wouldn't exactly call it easy to use either. I've never got around the idea of quitting something but not actually quitting it. There are ways to quit, but this should be something that needs to be done separately. The machines that I play with are the HP range, particularly the rx3417, and the O2 XDA Mini/IIs.
Both devices have their own market. I still consider Palm to be more user friendly, and the customer base that I serve is consistent with this. I definitely agree, palm is lagging behind. But the fact that devices like the treo 650 are doing so well implies that there is still something in PalmOS.
it will be interesting to see if the HP hw6500 does a better job at converged devices than the treo - if so, that puts palm one step closer to the grave.
Each serves their own market
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