[Felix Torres]

Hell, no!
It can't be the standard; it has a keyboard.
(To say nothing of being stuck with POS) :devilboy:

The benchmark convergence device, this week, is the HTC Magician/iMate Jam. The size of a phone with a full pocketpc--windows media 10--and its all screen. *And* SDIO expandable.

Crappy thumb keyboards are no long-term value.
You'll pay more in medical bills than the time you save is worth. :twisted:

[Felix Torres]

Hell, no!
It can't be the standard; it has a keyboard.
(To say nothing of being stuck with POS) :devilboy:

The benchmark convergence device, this week, is the HTC Magician/iMate Jam. The size of a phone with a full pocketpc--windows media 10--and its all screen. *And* SDIO expandable.

Crappy thumb keyboards are no long-term value.
You'll pay more in medical bills than the time you save is worth. :twisted:

[Macguy59]

The only thing stopping me from upgrading to the 650 (from the 600) is Samsung's i730. I want to be able to play with it before making a final decision. The upgraded processor in the 650 is more then enough power. The new hi-res screen is excellent to and with the inclusion of BT, it makes wireless headsets a reality. It even comes with Palm's version of the PPC Today page :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

Originally Posted by byteme

The only thing stopping me from upgrading to the 650 (from the 600) is Samsung's i730. I want to be able to play with it before making a final decision. The upgraded processor in the 650 is more then enough power. The new hi-res screen is excellent to and with the inclusion of BT, it makes wireless headsets a reality. It even comes with Palm's version of the PPC Today page :wink:

Perhaps, but I'm also more attracted to the i730 because of its EVDO support. I might have looked at the 650 if it had it, but it doesn't, and as such the other detriments outweigh the advantages too much.

--janak

[Macguy59]

Originally Posted by Janak Parekh

Perhaps, but I'm also more attracted to the i730 because of its EVDO support. I might have looked at the 650 if it had it, but it doesn't, and as such the other detriments outweigh the advantages too much.

--janak

EVDO rollout has been slow and will be awhile before it's as widely available as 1xRT, which by the way is much faster then any current GSM method. What are the other detriments ?

[serpico]

Originally Posted by k_kirk

The one thing no one seems to be picking on. The Antenna... The last phone I bought with an antenna sticking out like that was 5 years ago. Honestly. I would not go back for anything. They have to get rid of that thing.

Motorola still uses it on their cell phones, so not going anywhere soon. Most people believe you get better reception.

The Treo is very nice until you turn it on. If it ran WM5 I would get one, but hopefully a future PPC model would have a bigger screen. Palm based models have screens with wasted space for the their Grafitti area.

[seaflipper]

Originally Posted by Felix Torres

h-ll, no!
It can't be the standard; it has a keyboard.
(To say nothing of being stuck with POS) :devilboy:

The benchmark convergence device, this week, is the HTC Magician/iMate Jam. The size of a phone with a full pocketpc--windows media 10--and its all screen. *And* SDIO expandable.

Crappy thumb keyboards are no long-term value.
You'll pay more in medical bills than the time you save is worth. :twisted:

Oh come on! Have you actually tried using a Treo650? The thumboard is very useable and not cramped for me at all, and my hands are not small. I have found it to be very comfortable.

As far as long term use, well..if you use it so much that you get RSI from using the tumboard you probably need to evaluate what's more important in your life anyay - your phone or your wife :lol:

And besides, what kind of RSI's do you get using a stylus to type on a mini screen keyboard? Tapping can lead to all kinds of injuries. And pulling out your little mini-BT keyboard aint gonna get much better than the Treo.

I have used them all and while the Palm OS is laking in some ways compared to WM, and especially Win Mob 5.0, the fact is, as the author of this article clearly states, the form factor of the Treo is really a winner.

If Palm came out with Windows Mobile 5.0 on this form factor, that would really be the best of both worlds in my opinion, but only as long as 5.0 is truly one handed operable, or at least 2 handed operable without ever having to touch the screen. With the Treo I only have to pull out my stylus occassionlly.

[Gerard]

(edit: oops, mis-read the Treo as having a 240x240 screen... commented on that being too small... turns out it's 320 square... so, deleted)

[Felix Torres]

Originally Posted by seaflipper

As far as long term use, well..if you use it so much that you get RSI from using the tumboard you probably need to evaluate what's more important in your life anyay - your phone or your wife :lol:

Oh, I'll never get the thumb rsi's that are going aroung cause I refuse to use thumboards. Period.
And the gist of my tongue-in-cheek post is that different folks have different preferences.
Me, I prefer to maximize screen surface on what is for me a data viewing, not data-entry device.
The way I see it the treo can't be the ultimate convergence device cause it only converges an organizer and a phone; the jam and other Windows Mobile devices converge the phone with the media player, pocket computer and 3d mobile gaming.

On the scale from dumb phones to connected pocket computers, the treo is closer to a smartphone in capabilities than an htc universal of Jam.

Those that like the treo can have it; just don't try to force it where it doesn't belong.

[zetsurin]

Originally Posted by Felix Torres

...The way I see it the treo can't be the ultimate convergence device cause it only converges an organizer and a phone; the jam and other Windows Mobile devices converge the phone with the media player, pocket computer and 3d mobile gaming.

On the scale from dumb phones to connected pocket computers, the treo is closer to a smartphone in capabilities than an htc universal of Jam.

Those that like the treo can have it; just don't try to force it where it doesn't belong.

I think I am rather qualified to post here, as after using an XDA II Mini/HTC Magician for 6 months and after a thorough trial of the Treo 650 in the shops (and doing a LOT of reading in the many Treo forums) I discovered it recitified just about everything that I grew to loath about Microsoft's attempts in the mobile arena in this so now the Mini has sold and passed hands and I have been using the Treo for around a week now.

Do I miss the Mini? No way. I don't mean to be harsh, I still think the Mini is an awesome device, but I think think the usability philosophies such as the true single handed operation (I rarely ever have to take out the stylus) and a simple, tidy yet attractive GUI make all the difference to me. Look at what happens when someone phones you on a WM device... small rectangular buttons waiting for a stylus, whereas on the Treo it's elegantly simple, big buttons with the basic functions laid out for you in a no nonsense way. I just really got fed up with WM2003 making me have to keep tapping tiny areas of the screen to perform certain functions done. I also find the keyboard incredibly useful actually, and like you I had previously dismissed such things as gimmicky (I also have a Sharp Zaurus as well, which has a clever slide out keyboard but which is fiddly to press the right buttons, but this thing leaves it for dust).

Also, the Treo might not be up there in the specs department, but it doesn't leave you with a slouch of a unit. My colleagues who have seen it first said 'hey, that one is faster'. I guess it's a side-effect of a kernel that's not worrying about threading and multitasking issues. Gone now is the concept of minimized vs closed apps etc (which I think just confuses non-technical people who this market must start appealing to for it to truly take off). If I want out of an app, I just press the home button no matter where I am which leaves me in a clean piece of slate ready to launch the next app.

It's also extremely easy to manage where your apps are installed and where the data files are. You simply have .prc files for the executable and .pdb files for the databases. Installing is almost always simply a process of copying .prc files to the device or memory card. Also, any data files created by an app are tagged with the app as the creator. I haven't experienced all sorts of random files going into one big Windows directory bloating everything out until you just had to do a hard reset and start again (Windows in any incarnation hasn't progressed very far in this department I am afraid). Of course, it's a necessity because the Treo has a quite puny amount of memory!!

I have also seen PalmOS criticized for the fact that a lot of the apps are actually 68k apps being emulated. This is true, but you wouldn't know as they rip along at a nice speed and when you think about it, it's really just another VM approach which is where things are heading with .Net and the like (although .Net is a lot more powerful and sophisticated). However, you do certainly feel a sense of age with a lot of Palm apps because of this sometimes.

From what I have seen in WM2005 it's taken great strides in usability (the phone screens look awesome) but I think it will have a way to go yet where it will be usable for single handed operation and basic usability which I am interested in (as there are two soft buttons, I think you will frequently have to reach for the stylus to tap in that small close button in the top right to just close/minimize an app), which is one of the main things that I am interested in.

Anyway, I guess Palm is similar to Macs in that it's the little usability touches that make a difference, so rattling off specs will not immediately interest those who like power devices.

By the way, I better said now that I haven't turned my back on Windows Mobile, I think it's got a lot potential and if Palm doesn't do something quick it will steamroller them!! I still find PocketPCThoughts to be my fave mobile device related website because after all I love all of these digital toys, and there are some amazing things in the works :mrgreen:

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by revjon

I got my first iPAQ about the time this site started, but my work recently bought us all Treo650s. I really don't like the Palm OS (only one address per contact!)

Dude, Palm OS has allowed more than one address in contacts since the T|3 came out. The Treo 650 can have more than one address as well as pictures in contacts.