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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:12 PM
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Default Making Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
Specifically, my suggestion would be that you send a money order for the retail value (whether as seen on Amazon or in a store, whichever you feel is suitable on a case-by-case basis) to the distributor/label wrapped up in a simple letter...
***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

You missed one point. Record company sends lawyers to sue you for copyright violation because they have your confession in writing.

My philosophy on P2P is still the same. Go ahead and steal the music if you want, but don't try to rationalize it and don't put in writing what you've done.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenbike View Post
It's hard for me to believe that anyone who buys DRMed music doesn't use one of many converters available to get it to regular MP3s or burn them to CDs as backup so they can be re-ripped. A pain to be sure, but it's always been the smart thing to do.
As Ed implied, you're way overestimating the average public, who'll click, buy a song, download it to their iPod, and enjoy. Moreover, even I don't do this for the few protected iTunes songs I have. I don't want to experience quality loss from the already-mediocre 128kbps encodings the tracks have. Given iTunes' position in the market, I think it's a pretty safe bet the tracks are okay for now.

(Note that I don't buy songs from iTunes unless they're not available elsewhere. I usually buy Amazon MP3 now, and before that, used to buy CDs.)

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DRM is evil and has been from day one. It's been discredited and is a marketing negative, and eventually all DRM services will cease operating.
You're still too optimistic about the knowledge level of the end-user. Most iTunes users don't know, and don't care, about DRM. Part of the reason is because they only use iPods (so the Apple-device restriction isn't noticed), and perhaps because FairPlay is pretty lax and behind-the-scenes apart from that one limitation.

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What should happen, is that legit services should offer their users tools to convert all their DRMed music to non-DRM, including Microsoft and Apple, and the RIAA should bless such a movement. Rather than pinning their hopes on selling DRM buyers their music in non-DRMed form (the only reason such tools are not yet authorized).
I doubt Microsoft or Apple have the right to offer such a tool in their contract. In Apple's case, it's moot; three of the four major record labels refuse to offer non-DRM to Apple in hopes of unseating them as the dominant music store. (And, if you'll notice, it hasn't worked yet, further underscoring what little the average public knows, or cares, about DRM's inherent evilness.)

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I'd put my money on Microsoft embracing such a move before the far more fascist, customer-control and developer-control obsessed Apple.
Do note that Apple not only offered non-DRM AACs long before Microsoft did, but they also offered an upgrade feature to upgrade all DRMed tracks for which Apple has a non-DRM license ("iTunes Plus") for a reduced fee. It's built into iTunes and is a one-click process.

--janak
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:20 PM
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Default Business Is Business

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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh View Post
One of my fears is that the labels only allow DRM-free music as competition to iTunes. If and when they manage to take down iTunes, I wouldn't be surprised if they let their DRM-free contracts expire with Amazon, Rhapsody, MSN, etc. The labels really couldn't give a damn about what any of us want.
Why should they? They're a business, and their job is to make as much money as they can.

There are only two reasons to give a damn about customers:
  • Doing so might actually earn you more business
  • You're a "good" business that believes in making a "fair" profit, not charging what the market will bear. This leaves out oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, tobacco companies, Wall Street and companies making goods in third-world countries that exploit workers and sell us lead-painted toys or tainted food.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by James Beatty View Post
I'll buy albums online when they are DRM-Free and at least 256 kbps AAC files.
Amazon MP3 offers 256kbps VBR LAME-encoded MP3s. The quality is excellent and is on par with 256kbps AAC (which is what Apple uses on iTunes Plus). I've basically switched to Amazon MP3 for everything apart from classical music, which I'll still buy on CD.

--janak
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pony99CA View Post
Why should they? They're a business, and their job is to make as much money as they can.
Well, okay, I should rephrase things. "I expect record companies to let their non-DRM contracts expire if and when they can wield it to take down iTunes." Happy?

--janak
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:29 PM
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Default Screw The Dummies

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Originally Posted by frankenbike View Post
And there is no reason for us to feel sorry for people who aren't resourceful enough to solve this conundrum on their own. They've got the Internet and Google, and that's all you need to learn just about anything.
Besides what Ed and Janak said about the general technical expertise of the general population, I find this attitude a bit repugnant.

Should mechanics be able to rip people off who don't know enough about the inner workings of their cars? Is it OK to take advantage of people "dumber" than you because they aren't smart enough to catch on? Is it OK for me to be resourceful, use Google to find out how to bump a lock, then go steal from your house?

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:35 PM
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Default Stealing Digital

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Originally Posted by Rocco Augusto View Post
This is the one analogy that has always bothered me whenever piracy is brought up. No matter how you feel on the issue, when you walk into a supermarket and steal something you are physically removing something from the store and therefore removing money from their pockets. This isn't the same as making a digital copy of something where the original stays there.

Morally wrong? Yes. On the same level as stealing physical products? No.
It's not quite on the same level, I agree, but it's still stealing. You've taken something that doesn't belong to you without compensating the owner for it. That's stealing.

Sure, some people rationalize it by saying "I wouldn't have bought that anyway." That's basically saying it's OK to steal something you didn't want badly.

I did like your apple analogy, though.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Pony99CA View Post
It's not quite on the same level, I agree, but it's still stealing. You've taken something that doesn't belong to you without compensating the owner for it. That's stealing.
I agree, it is still stealing. I was just stating that I dislike the analogy that everyone uses when they compare it to a physical product. It is no different whenever we try to compare a Windows Mobile device to the iPhone or space travel to underwater adventures. Sure there are similarities to stealing physical products and digital products but they are not on the same level at all. It is just a silly pet peeve of mine

I guess a better way of explaining it would be like so; Going into Wal-Mart and stealing physical copies of all of the albums you will now lose because you purchased the DRM copy isn't the same as breaking the DRM on music that you already purchased.

It would be one thing if Wal-Mart had a little button next to the album that said "rent this track now," but they no not. All of these DRM stores use the termonology to make it sound like the music you purchase belongs to you and not the other way around so when things like this happens it greatly annoys money spending consumers to not want to buy these products anymore. Some people could even argue that stuff like this turns would be paying customers into pirates because they don't understand how DRM and non-DRM works and all they know is that if they purchsaed music from one company and lost the rights to play it and the same thing might happen if they go to Amazon or somewhere else (even though it wouldn't happen with Amazon's non-DRM selection, but they don't know or understand the technology to know this.)

Then you also have to wonderer, if Wal-Mart's solution to this problem is to have their users burn their music to CD's and then re-rip it, why wouldn't users just strip the DRM from the tracks and cut out the middle-man-CD process? This is essentially the same thing minus spending a ton of money on CDs.

This is one of those situations where no matter what you do as a consumer, you get screwed. You either repurchase your Wal-Mart collection in non-DRM fashion or you break the law and sit and a corner and feel bad about yourself.

The only people that win in this situation are the music companies. Even Wal-Mart loses in this situation because they have to screw over all of their existing customers. I don't really believe there is a right answer to fix this problem besides dropping DRM all together. DRM is bad and the cons will always outweigh the pros and the only people DRM prevents from using products are your customers that actually wanted to give you money. DRM does not stop nor effect pirates and in a lot of cases is cracked before the final products hits the store shelves.
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Last edited by Rocco Augusto; 09-29-2008 at 11:08 PM..
 
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 12:42 AM
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Default Getting Your Music

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Augusto View Post
I guess a better way of explaining it would be like so; Going into Wal-Mart and stealing physical copies of all of the albums you will now lose because you purchased the DRM copy isn't the same as breaking the DRM on music that you already purchased.
True, and I agree with what Ed said in the first post. I wouldn't blame anybody for downloading songs from a P2P network that they lost due to a DRM failure. The people played by the rules, but WalMart changed those rules in the middle of the game.

Then they made it worse by giving people less than two weeks to fix things. If somebody is on vacation for a couple of weeks, they're screwed. Companies should have to give at least three months notice before doing something like this.

Steve
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Last edited by Pony99CA; 09-30-2008 at 12:45 AM..
 
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Pony99CA View Post
Then they made it worse by giving people less than two weeks to fix things. If somebody is on vacation for a couple of weeks, they're screwed. Companies should have to give at least three months notice before doing something like this.
Heck I would say even longer. I usually have a 10-14 hour workday on top of any extra activity things such as contributing here. If I was a Wal-Mart customer I would be SOL since there is no way I would have the time with my current work schedule to go through my albums and burn them all to CD.

What about all the people that have changed email addresses since buying those albums as well? How are they going to be notified? Hopefully this doesn't turn out all doom and gloom like we're predicting and Wal-Mart comes out with a better solution then scratching their collective heads.
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