Not that happy with my 720...

[teq]

Well, so I got myself a Pocket Loox 720 (mainly because of the positive reviews, e.g. on this page). After 2 weeks I must admit that I'm not that happy with the device.

Why? Well, here are my pesonal issues with the device:

• - VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.
  - Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).
  - Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.
  - Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?
  - Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.
  - Software/Hardware integration: The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all. Also, BatteryBar isn't able to control the 720's display brightness using it's slider in the Today settings (this of course may be OmegaOne's fault, but it's interesting - and for me it's a nuisance).
  - Software in general seems less stable - probably a WM2003 SE issue.

On the positive side, WLAN is great, my 4GB microdrive boots much faster when turning on the device and 128 MB RAM is something I may get used to.

I simply haven't made up my mind whether I will keep the 720 or sell it and stick to my 2210 while waiting for WM2005...

Cheers,
teq

[teq]

Well, so I got myself a Pocket Loox 720 (mainly because of the positive reviews, e.g. on this page). After 2 weeks I must admit that I'm not that happy with the device.

Why? Well, here are my pesonal issues with the device:

• - VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.
  - Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).
  - Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.
  - Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?
  - Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.
  - Software/Hardware integration: The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all. Also, BatteryBar isn't able to control the 720's display brightness using it's slider in the Today settings (this of course may be OmegaOne's fault, but it's interesting - and for me it's a nuisance).
  - Software in general seems less stable - probably a WM2003 SE issue.

On the positive side, WLAN is great, my 4GB microdrive boots much faster when turning on the device and 128 MB RAM is something I may get used to.

I simply haven't made up my mind whether I will keep the 720 or sell it and stick to my 2210 while waiting for WM2005...

Cheers,
teq

[juni]

I've been following threads about the new devices with interest. The 720 seems to have a lot of issues so I have pretty much removed it from my new-pda-list.

Sadly the new Axim also seems to have issues .

I would really hate to have to get a HP after the trick they pulled with not offering upgrades but it is starting to look like I have to get the x4700 mainly because it has the best screen of them all, and as you can guess, that is very important to me. Plus it seems to have less "issues", apart from the touchpad which many say is totally useless and others swear by it.

[teq]

yep, I also considered the x50v, but the small battery and it's late release date (in Germany) drove me to the 720.

The HP x4700 is no option for me, simply because of it's size. IMHO, VGA and PPC aren't a perfect match yet. VGA requires too many compromises regarding size/ergonomics, battery life and software stability.

Well, good things need time...

Cheers,
teq

[Fishie]

Battery time on my e800 was equel to the pest QVGA PPCs out there bar a few.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by juni

I've been following threads about the new devices with interest. The 720 seems to have a lot of issues so I have pretty much removed it from my new-pda-list.

Sadly the new Axim also seems to have issues .

I would really hate to have to get a HP after the trick they pulled with not offering upgrades but it is starting to look like I have to get the x4700 mainly because it has the best screen of them all, and as you can guess, that is very important to me. Plus it seems to have less "issues", apart from the touchpad which many say is totally useless and others swear by it.

Actually I think they meant to say... people swear at it...

I still think that the Asus a730W... Loox 720 and Toshiba e830 are good choices...

[CESkins]

teq have you been to the FirstLoox website? Most of the issues you raise in your posts have either been addressed via software or are OS design issues that will require an update.

VGA support not great in PPC software - you can't expect all the software available to be VGA complaint at this time. The various developers 1st have to purchase the hardware (Loox 720, Axim x50v, Asus 730w, etc) and test their software out on each device. That means they had to wait until a shipping model was available unless they were lucky enough to receive a pre-production model. Unless you happen to be a big software company, chances of that are slim to none. Besides, last minute changes in the OS or other components can render software that worked flawlessly with pre-production hardware buggy. Like all of us with VGA devices, we just have to wait for the developers.

Form factor - the 720 and 2210 are very different machines. About all they have in common are 2 slots. The 720 have a slightly larger screen, a built-in camera, more RAM/ROM, a larger battery, USB host, side buttons (including jog dial), etc. The Loox may be bigger but I would take it's longer size any day of the week given all that they were able to fit into the package. Given that the Loox is far smaller than HPs successor to the 2210 (namely the 4700 series), I consider it to be a smart move to upgrade my 2210 to a 720 vs the 4700. More bang for the buck (unless you are stuck on a 4" VGA screen and painted magnesium alloy body). I love my 2210 and 4150 but the Loox is not meant to compete with them.

Speed - I found the same issues you have with a Dell x50v (which has a faster processor than the Loox especially in Autospeed mode. At turbo mode the sluggishness was less noticeable. However, don't forget that the speed of the PDA has to do with several factors: the CPU speed, optimized OS code, and the software installed and running. Running software from FLASH-ROM will be way slower than main RAM or off a CF/SD card. Also the new VGA PDAs are pushing around 4x more pixels on the screen. Worse if they have to work with older software that requires the CPU to spend time doubling pixels for compatibility. Many older apps that were slow in VGA mode natively worked just fine once forced to run in VGA-mode (by Tweaks2K2 assuming that the dialogs and other parts of the program weren't hard coded to specific dimensions). What I find slows the system down severely is pixel doubled clear-type text. Scrolling takes forever. I expect to see these devices come int otheir own over the next few weeks as the software matures and bugs in the OS are resolved by updates.

Charging via sync cable - I seem to recall that the 2210 charge/sync cable did not work with the 4150 even though they had the same sync ports. The 4150 simply required more juice to charge than the 2210 sync cable was able to carry. Once the cable was redesigned, it worked flawlessly with the 4150 and any other HP PDA for that matter that had the same port. We should wait for the cable manufacturers to design a cable for the 720 (which means they need to have a 720 in hand to test the cable with). In the interim, I will use the cables the device came with. Personally I am looking forward to a sync cable with USB host features added as well.

Issues with Bluetooth - I have the same problems with the Dell x50v, HP users are reporting similar issues...this is a MS issue.

Software/Hardware integration - the backlight issues you bring up have been discussed on the FirstLoox website. Here is a link to software that will allow you to set up differnt backlight settings for the Loox on AC or battery power. As for not being able to control the backlight brightness via the sliders in BatteryBar...that's a software issue that has to be addressed by the makers of BatteryBar (same thing happens every year when new hardware is released...software that ties into specific parts of the OS or hardware need to be revised). Again patience or just stick with what you have now until these issues are resolved with time. There is nothing that I can see that is a major fault in the hardware...just some teething issues with the latest generation of hardware and software.

Software stability - await optimized code for the new PDAs.

[jasondearyou]

[q]teq have you been to the FirstLoox website? Most of the issues you raise in your posts have either been addressed via software or are OS design issues that will require an update.[/q]





i'm soo happy you addressed these issues, i was feeling alone and cold out there sticking my neck out for the loox.

[teq]

@CESkins:
First of all, thanks for your tips. Yes, I do know the FirstLoox website, but I hadn't checked all the links, especially the Backlight software and the highres Bluetooth icon (in today screen) are very helpful. Very nice!

In general, my remarks were only my 5 cents. Simply put, I'm disappointed with the additional value a brandnew VGA device offers compared to my "old" QVGA 2210. No killer apps that make really great use of VGA - noticeable exception RepliGo and (maybe) PocketInformant.

So, for me, a comparison between the 2210 and the 720 concerning every day use, handability and overall impression DOES make sense. And currently I'm not impressed...

Cheers,
teq

[CESkins]

In general, my remarks were only my 5 cents. Simply put, I'm disappointed with the additional value a brandnew VGA device offers compared to my "old" QVGA 2210. No killer apps that make really great use of VGA - noticeable exception RepliGo and (maybe) PocketInformant.

teq I agree with you. With the exception of a few notable apps such as AF, PI, and Repligo very few apps make maximal use of the new VGA screens. Part of that has to do with how MS implemented VGA support in the 2003SE OS (it's not true VGA support). Until apps are redesigned to support the current OS, I am afraid we are stuck with pixel doubled software. I just picked up a Loox 720 and to tell you the truth, I am very impressed with the hardware...the software and OS just need to catch up.

[Bugblatter]

For me the main reason for getting a VGA PDA was the playback of DivX etc, the quality completely blows away QVGA screens. For me that's the "killer app". When my 5GB Seagate Microdrive turns up I'll have a pocket movie player, on top of everything else it can do.

I really like my Loox 720. The lack of SVGA support in aps is very annoying, plus the fact that many don't work properly in landscape mode, but that should improve fairly quickly.